I just tried with Unreal Tournament. Is it possible that 3Dmark2000 is not disabling v-sync or something like that?
The thing is in UT I get 60 fps on the first 1-on-1 death match when I set the config to 60Hz, and 72-75fps when I move the slider to 75Hz.

I don't know how the VIA chip compares to a Coppermine P3, but I get approx. 2480 points in 3DMark2000 with a 700MHz Coppermine and V2 SLI, and that's with the default benchmark settings (1024x768x16 etc.). Same 3Dfx drivers as you, no tweaks.

kahuna wrote on 2024-04-08, 18:36:

I guess it's the test I'm running that is not very representative? Perhaps those Software T&L optimizations are hurting?

That wouldn't matter. There's not a single Voodoo in the world with hardware T&L.

Another thing to keep in mind about SLI is that the texture thrashing penalties are worse, so for some later games, SLI would bring slower results. That's what the SLinfluencers don't tell you 😀

My thinking on the Software T&L is that it can hurt performance because it's one more thing that the CPU needs to do. i.e. "software render vs. hardware render" type of thing.
With a Coppermine there is some sort of optimization, or at least it looks that way as in 3DMark they have "using Intel PentiumIII optimizations" (whatever that means, idk!)

leileilol wrote on 2024-04-08, 20:55:

Another thing to keep in mind about SLI is that the texture thrashing penalties are worse, so for some later games, SLI would bring slower results. That's what the SLinfluencers don't tell you 😀

Haha, SLInfluencers, that's a good one!
I just want to make sure it's worth to keep both Voodoo2 in SLI. Anyone can argue "well, it doesn't hurt". Yeah, but there are not so many PCI slots for everything... wondering if it will be a better use (yet another) sound card 😁

kahuna wrote on 2024-04-08, 21:54:

My thinking on the Software T&L is that it can hurt performance because it's one more thing that the CPU needs to do. i.e. "soft […]
Show full quote

My thinking on the Software T&L is that it can hurt performance because it's one more thing that the CPU needs to do. i.e. "software render vs. hardware render" type of thing.
With a Coppermine there is some sort of optimization, or at least it looks that way as in 3DMark they have "using Intel PentiumIII optimizations" (whatever that means, idk!)

leileilol wrote on 2024-04-08, 20:55:

Another thing to keep in mind about SLI is that the texture thrashing penalties are worse, so for some later games, SLI would bring slower results. That's what the SLinfluencers don't tell you 😀

Haha, SLInfluencers, that's a good one!
I just want to make sure it's worth to keep both Voodoo2 in SLI. Anyone can argue "well, it doesn't hurt". Yeah, but there are not so many PCI slots for everything... wondering if it will be a better use (yet another) sound card 😁

SLI lets you run in 1024x768 instead of 800x600, that's worth keeping SLI, SLI is also about on par with a V3 2000 performance wise so that's another plus.

Besides you really only need two sounds cards, an Aureal A3D one and a Creative EAX one ...any more than two is pointless unless the third is an ISA one with intelligent MPU401 and Wavetable support.

I continued my testing. Using the tweaker folder of the FastVoodoo2 drivers, I installed the Overclock panel.
Then overclocked to 100MHz both Glide and Direct3D. The result on 3DMark2000 is now 2044 at 800x600x16. Without OC it was 2013.
The next test was to disable "Don't sync buffer swaps to monitor refresh rate for Glide" (same for Direct3D). That gave me the same result on 3DMark2000.

With that "vSync" disabled and still running at 100MHz, I played Unreal Tournament, just the first death match.
Average FPS at 800x600x16: 85fps
Average FPS at 1024x768x16: 65fps
That is with "world texture detail" and "skin detail" in high. Not bad!
Interestingly enough, I didn't see any screen tearing.

Next up is Need for Speed Porsche. Configuration as follows:
800x600x16 (I cannot go any further)
Medium for 'car detail' and 'car lighting'
Very High for 'world rendering quality' and 'view distance'
Headlights on 'vertex', lens flare 'on', sky rendering normal.

With all of that when there are other cars in the screen (8 total), I get around 30 fps quite solid.
If I'm alone on the road, it goes up to 45 fps or so. That is a quick race on the first circuit, just at the beginning.

Overclocking the CPU from 1.2GHz to 1.4GHz helps as well 😎
2296 marks in 3DMark2000 at 800x600x16.
NFS Porsche is also more playable, getting 10-15fps extra thanks to that CPU overclock.

Now the not so good part (at least on my system), DOS Glide games.
I'm running them on 'real' DOS mode, I'm not launching them from Windows 98 or anything like that.
Tested Carmageddon and Tomb Raider Gold. Both didn't want to start at all, until I lowered the FSB speed and disabled branch prediction on the CPU.
Problem is that for instance in Tomb Raider, it drops below the locked 30fps when you reach the bridges area.
I tested many other speed configuration options, it seems when it's going too fast it just doesn't want to start the game at all; if I lower the speed, it's just not fast enough... quite sad 🙁
I played Tomb Raider using the 3dfx patch for Voodoo2, I will try it again with the 'voodoo rush' one. It also works btw, I just didn't test it that far.

More testing, if anyone is interested, going back to a single Voodoo2 12MB card.
All of the following has been tested at 800x600x16.

3DMark2000: 1918 marks with the Voodoo2 overclocked to 100MHz

Unreal Tournament: First death match, played until I win: 52fps average at 100MHz
Unreal Tournament: First death match, played until I win: 45fps average at stock speed
Overclocking the CPU doesn't have any effect on the performance in Unreal Tournament.

NFS Porsche: With other 7 cars on the track I get 25 fps. Just alone in the circuit, it bumps up to 40 fps. All of that with the Voodoo2 OC to 100MHz.
If I overclock the CPU, I can see 27fps or so when there are other cars. No gain when it's just me.

So, besides being able to play up to 1024x768, it's clear that there is an actual performance gain in games with two Voodoo 2 in SLI compared to just one, that's a relief.

Still working on the DOS Glide games situation...

Hello again,

Going back to the DOS Glide games situation...
Besides Tomb Raider, is there any other DOS game that can show an FPS counter?
I'd like to have a number on the screen to test with different speed configurations of the FSB and CPU, so I can r really compare them instead of just "feeling it"

Thanks!

P4 should be given to SLI at 4145MHz 104/104 and rushing.
Voodoo2SLI/3DMark2000 new world record

DarthSun wrote on 2024-04-11, 17:58:

P4 should be given to SLI at 4145MHz 104/104 and rushing.
Voodoo2SLI/3DMark2000 new world record

Pretty cool DarthSun.
I also have a Preshot around, but getting over 3000 marks is not the goal of this build. I'm just trying to build a nice all-rounder machine, decent or pretty good for a bunch of different uses 😉
By the way, that 4GHz P4 must be quite warm, I had mine OC'd to 3.6GHz and yeah, I couldn't complain much about its performance!

kahuna wrote on 2024-04-11, 20:04:

Pretty cool DarthSun. I also have a Preshot around, but getting over 3000 marks is not the goal of this build. I'm just trying t […]
Show full quote

DarthSun wrote on 2024-04-11, 17:58:

P4 should be given to SLI at 4145MHz 104/104 and rushing.
Voodoo2SLI/3DMark2000 new world record

Pretty cool DarthSun.
I also have a Preshot around, but getting over 3000 marks is not the goal of this build. I'm just trying to build a nice all-rounder machine, decent or pretty good for a bunch of different uses 😉
By the way, that 4GHz P4 must be quite warm, I had mine OC'd to 3.6GHz and yeah, I couldn't complain much about its performance!

Is burdened around 50 degrees Celsius, not warming, Delid CPU+ThermalTake.

But anyway, I set it to 3.8GHz for use, just the big clock to the summit. 3.8 This specimen is almost cold, as if it were cool, a selection of D0.

Nice!

Just in case my previous question got buried, anyone knows of any DOS Glide games that have an FPS counter? (besides Tomb Raider).

Thx.

kahuna wrote on 2024-04-11, 22:57:

Nice!

Just in case my previous question got buried, anyone knows of any DOS Glide games that have an FPS counter? (besides Tomb Raider).

Thx.

I don't know like that, I used to try old time to Voodoo during DOS , I used to Glide under rather Windows.

I have been playing around a bit with DOS Glide games.
Reducing the FSB to 75MHz and leaving the multiplier at 9x, gives me the performance of a roughly K6-2 system. I believe it should be ok for DOS Glide games.
If I try to go higher, I get in a situation where I get a black screen when I enter the game 🙁