VOGONS


First post, by Stiletto

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Found this interesting comparison of (up t0) 1996 3D graphics cards, chips, and accelerators ... except that it's in Korean.

In their specs comparison... the Cirrus Logic CL-GD5470 went unreleased... Fujitsu/NEC/OKI all do not have the part number listed and I suspect those are all chipsets, not cards. (Pretty sure I know the names of the Fujitsu and OKI chips, need to check my notes.) Toshiba/Trident/Toyota Caelum (!!!) are chips that I believe I am all unfamiliar with as well. First "Rendering Chipset Comparison Table" on the third page (pg. 223) is pretty much all vaporware.

https://ettrends.etri.re.kr/ettrends/42/09050 … 11n4s42_221.pdf

Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-04-13, 19:09. Edited 1 time in total.

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 1 of 26, by cyclone3d

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Pretty sure I have a card with the OKI chip on it.

Very rare. When I bought it, I could only find one page with any information about it.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 2 of 26, by channelmaniac

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I wonder if the NEC one was the PowerVR card that had no video output but rather sat in the PCI bus and used the 2D card's RAM and video output.

I found one of those cards at Computer Reset while helping to clean out an office and put it with the rest of the video cards for buyers to dig through.

Reply 3 of 26, by Putas

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Amazing find, Stiletto.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-04-08, 23:05:

Pretty sure I have a card with the OKI chip on it.

Very rare. When I bought it, I could only find one page with any information about it.

Oki TrianGL? That would be a legendary artifact.

Reply 4 of 26, by cyclone3d

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Putas wrote on 2021-04-09, 05:11:

Amazing find, Stiletto.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-04-08, 23:05:

Pretty sure I have a card with the OKI chip on it.

Very rare. When I bought it, I could only find one page with any information about it.

Oki TrianGL? That would be a legendary artifact.

Actually, I was thinking of the last OAK chip released, the Eon - OTI 64217.. OR at least that is what I think it is. I decided to not take the sticker off the chip to see what it said underneath.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 5 of 26, by vlask

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-04-08, 23:05:

Actually, I was thinking of the last OAK chip released, the Eon - OTI 64217.. OR at least that is what I think it is. I decided to not take the sticker off the chip to see what it said underneath.

Any photo available? Have it marked as never released. Photo might help....

Not only mine graphics cards collection at http://www.vgamuseum.info

Reply 6 of 26, by cyclone3d

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vlask wrote on 2021-04-09, 19:24:
cyclone3d wrote on 2021-04-08, 23:05:

Actually, I was thinking of the last OAK chip released, the Eon - OTI 64217.. OR at least that is what I think it is. I decided to not take the sticker off the chip to see what it said underneath.

Any photo available? Have it marked as never released. Photo might help....

Here are pics I just took. I did a search and it looks like DreamHardware had one for sale at one point as well.

Media_Graphics_3D_front.jpg
Filename
Media_Graphics_3D_front.jpg
File size
606.86 KiB
Views
537 views
File license
Public domain
Media_Graphics_3D_back.jpg
Filename
Media_Graphics_3D_back.jpg
File size
497.06 KiB
Views
537 views
File license
Public domain
Media_Graphics_3D_bracket.jpg
Filename
Media_Graphics_3D_bracket.jpg
File size
9.66 KiB
Views
537 views
File license
Public domain

Edit:... since the forum butchered the size of the bracket, let's try it rotated 90 degrees:

Media_Graphics_3D_bracket_90.jpg
Filename
Media_Graphics_3D_bracket_90.jpg
File size
232.85 KiB
Views
503 views
File license
Public domain

/Edit

This the the page that I used to determine that this is what it is:
http://www.plasma-online.de/index.html?conten … re/oak_oti.html

I really should test it out. It has just been stored in an anti-static bag ever since I got it. If I remember correctly, it came in a lot of "scrap" I purchased on eBay a couple years ago.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 7 of 26, by vlask

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Sadly with that sticker on its impossible to confirm your theory. Might help let it run and dump bios via NSSI software - model numbers are often written in bios too....

Not only mine graphics cards collection at http://www.vgamuseum.info

Reply 8 of 26, by debs3759

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PCI ID would help confirm what chip it is as well. Nice find, whichever chip it is 😀

See my graphics card database at www.gpuzoo.com
Constantly being worked on. Feel free to message me with any corrections or details of cards you would like me to research and add.

Reply 9 of 26, by Stiletto

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My guess for the Fujitsu chipset is the Fujitsu MB86235, of which I've seen PC hardware described ONCE: https://web.archive.org/web/20021216065417/ht … tc/apri/pc.html
(I should have saved the graphics!)

A whitepaper here describes an accelerator card with it, dated December 1997: https://www.fujitsu.com/global/documents/abou … 3-2/paper08.pdf
BUT this chipset was announced as early as August 1995: https://old.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/h … .S5/HC7.5.1.pdf
If it was ever released anywhere... it was a limited OEM Japanese release, possibly for a Fujitsu microcomputer.
(it's better known for arcade use: Sega Model 2C CRX, which generally saw wide release.)

It was the precursor to Fujitsu FGX-1 "Pinolite" (MB86242), which has been mentioned on VOGONS before: Re: Rendition Verite Thread

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 10 of 26, by Stiletto

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channelmaniac wrote on 2021-04-08, 23:37:

I wonder if the NEC one was the PowerVR card that had no video output but rather sat in the PCI bus and used the 2D card's RAM and video output.

I checked my notes and any other NEC badged PC graphics chip, the timeline doesn't work.

So, yeah, I guess it's either PowerVR "Midas 3": https://vintage3d.org/images/midas3/midas3.jpg (chips on Putas's card seem to be 29th week of 1996)
...
or maybe PowerVR PCX1 (Midas 4) (NEC) (PowerVR Series 1(A)). (this card seems to have a chip that's 36th week of 1996: http://vgamuseum.info/media/k2/items/cache/1d … c4062382_XL.jpg )

Putas can probably say better than I which had specs of "100K PPS (50 pixel), 300K vector/s, Gouraud shading, Z-buffer Y, Sub-pixel positioning, 50Mhz operating frequency, 64-bit dual-port memory".

[EDIT] Screw it, I'll ping Simon F. for the answer.

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 11 of 26, by Ozzuneoj

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vlask wrote on 2021-04-11, 20:17:

Might help let it run and dump bios via NSSI software - model numbers are often written in bios too....

Please do this! I'm curious too! 😀

By the way... is there any way to translate the PDF in the original post to English? My Korean is... yeah... nonexistent. 🤣

I've tried a few Korean OCI things online and all are failing miserably. I imagine this is a fairly difficult task, especially with technological subjects (lots of uncommon words and English mixed in).

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 12 of 26, by Stiletto

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Ozzuneoj wrote on 2021-04-13, 06:50:

By the way... is there any way to translate the PDF in the original post to English? My Korean is... yeah... nonexistent. 🤣

I've tried a few Korean OCI things online and all are failing miserably. I imagine this is a fairly difficult task, especially with technological subjects (lots of uncommon words and English mixed in).

https://translate.google.com and https://www.deepl.com are the only things that come to mind. DeepL will even translate DOCX, if we can convert it from PDF to DOCX.

If neither is satisfactory, then we'd need to find a native speaker, either here (there are some Korean VOGONS users) or via an online translation service that uses real people (and charges for it).

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 13 of 26, by mr.cat

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Google Translate can also accept PDF, but it needs to be in a text form I think. And also they have some limits on how much can be translated at a time.
Unless I missed something this one only has images. So it must be processed with something like Tesseract first.

@Ozzuneoj: What's an OCI? Did you mean OCR?

Reply 14 of 26, by cyclone3d

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I'll test the card as soon as I get my work area redoing finished... hopefully today.

I'm moving from a table to a 42U server rack with multiple shelves, a slide-out keyboard / LCD and a KVM. I'll also stick my large CRT monitor on one of the shelves for the time being.

Should make it a whole lot easier / efficient for building and testing.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 15 of 26, by Ozzuneoj

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mr.cat wrote on 2021-04-13, 19:07:

@Ozzuneoj: What's an OCI? Did you mean OCR?

Sorry, I've been doing a lot of research over at "Bob is the Oil Guy" and mixed up a letter. Strangely enough, I have a Korean car and my OCI (oil change interval) for it is something I've been thinking about as well. 🤣

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 16 of 26, by mr.cat

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Ozzuneoj wrote on 2021-04-15, 14:20:
mr.cat wrote on 2021-04-13, 19:07:

@Ozzuneoj: What's an OCI? Did you mean OCR?

Sorry, I've been doing a lot of research over at "Bob is the Oil Guy" and mixed up a letter. Strangely enough, I have a Korean car and my OCI (oil change interval) for it is something I've been thinking about as well. 🤣

Makes perfect sense 🤣
I did some quick tests with Tesseract, it looks like it can actually handle korean text pretty well. I don't speak any korean however, so it's hard to say if there are some subtle problems that go unnoticed (word spaces?).
Also any english text that is mixed in will come back as gibberish or numbers.
Google Translation will give you a very nonsensical text back if there are any linebreaks in there.

Reply 17 of 26, by Ozzuneoj

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mr.cat wrote on 2021-04-15, 14:40:
Makes perfect sense lol I did some quick tests with Tesseract, it looks like it can actually handle korean text pretty well. I d […]
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Ozzuneoj wrote on 2021-04-15, 14:20:
mr.cat wrote on 2021-04-13, 19:07:

@Ozzuneoj: What's an OCI? Did you mean OCR?

Sorry, I've been doing a lot of research over at "Bob is the Oil Guy" and mixed up a letter. Strangely enough, I have a Korean car and my OCI (oil change interval) for it is something I've been thinking about as well. 🤣

Makes perfect sense 🤣
I did some quick tests with Tesseract, it looks like it can actually handle korean text pretty well. I don't speak any korean however, so it's hard to say if there are some subtle problems that go unnoticed (word spaces?).
Also any english text that is mixed in will come back as gibberish or numbers.
Google Translation will give you a very nonsensical text back if there are any linebreaks in there.

Thanks for investigating this.

I got as far as uploading it to a few sites and none of them worked at all. You've gotten much farther! 😀

It may be best to just ask a Korean speaking member to read and then translate part of it for us. If there are large sections that don't really offer any valuable info, they wouldn't need translated.

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 18 of 26, by Putas

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I think online tools can be sufficient for understanding.
Example from page 3 and 4: ...
It is passed to the command processor (00000800 0070065500. Command)
The processor is passed through a high-speed graphics processing bus such as #.
Female 20, is interconnected with system memory,
The command word processor is related to 3D among the read data.
The data is a sub-system of geometric calculation (6600060* 9409090600).
2D data can be directly processed by frame buffer or raster
Data classification work delivered to Rigi 0096[ 0ㅁ0065500
Is in charge of Here, if a dedicated geometry calculation chipset
If not, it is sent back to #0. This point is the bar
Floating point to set 3D coordinates on the screen
You will calculate the number. One already calculated like this
The paper is finally passed to the raster processor.

----

The processor is used for rendering, mapping with 2D data, and
That if there is video data that requires compositing
When it is time, it is performed. All of these operations are
It is executed inside the frame buffer. And the frame buffer
Is the natural reproduction of the 3D image created in this way.
To the video output device at high speed to complete the gun
It also has a built-in double buffer function for it.

Currently, 80 users are at an affordable price.
3D image graphics board with acid processing capability
It is still too early to use. Such
For this reason, board manufacturers are using floating-point meters.
Host system instead of embedding an acid processor

Inside the high-performance 80, that is, like a Pentium processor

0 It is recommended to use. These solutions are geometric
By passing the operation processing to 0#0, the price of the board is increased.

Its purpose is to lower it.

1. 『3D graphics processing chipset for <
product family
Necessary to develop a 3D graphics board
Chipset development technology is largely a rendering chipset technology, frame burr.
Per memory chipset technology and geometric calculation engine technology
You can share.

1. Rendering chipset
The rendering chipset is the flower of the 3D graphics board.

Reply 19 of 26, by Ozzuneoj

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Strangely, I've found that the Google Translate app on my phone is working quite well for this. I have to take screenshots of the app, but it is working. I'll upload them when I get a chance.

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.