That Nokia is a really good monitor (I have one), if teleportation was a thing, I have pair of decent 17" CRTs around 🤣.

As far as LCDs go, there are not many that will support 70Hz etc. that most DOS things use. There are several threads here about the general matter.

Well, if you ever find a teleportation device please let me know. 😀

It's definitely a great monitor and at first I was happy to find one so large, but my finished basement doesn't have space for it. I'm still trying to make it work, but given the distance you have to sit back from the monitor (plus a keyboard/mouse) it ends up requiring quite a lot of space.

I'm still hoping to figure out a way to use the Nokia, but I know an LCD would fit much, much better in my space. One option is the newer FreeSync monitors that typically support odd resolutions and higher refresh rates.

sofakng wrote on 2023-03-01, 21:21:

Are there any LCDs that are considered "good" or are they all pretty much terrible for DOS gaming?

Having owned and tested about ten different 4:3 LCD models, I find they are all pretty terrible especially when compared alongside CRT displays. If the choice is crappy LCD or giant CRT, I'd be knocking a hole in the wall to make room for the CRT. 😁

There are number of issues ranging from older LCDs not being great picture-wise (compared to modern displays), incompatibilities with resolutions or refresh rates, issues with video card RAMDACs being more noticeable (e.g. jailbars).

IMHO the best way to play DOS games with an LCD is via DOSBox on a modern system and modern display.

An alternative might be to use some sort of image scaler/processor to convert VGA to digital out for a modern display as well. Though I haven't tried that route yet.

But for classic DOS machines with a classic LCD, I find the experience to be not great at the best of times.

sofakng wrote on 2023-03-01, 21:33:

It's definitely a great monitor and at first I was happy to find one so large, but my finished basement doesn't have space for it. I'm still trying to make it work, but given the distance you have to sit back from the monitor (plus a keyboard/mouse) it ends up requiring quite a lot of space.

I have limited space in my new environment and I have found that diagonal approach works best, i.e monitor is in a corner edge of desk and facing at 45 degree angle toward the seat area. Not 100% ideal but definitely workable, and if you have two montors it becomes the only way anyway (I got a 20" 1600x1200 LCD next to it on my desk for example).

I am not as pessimistic on this topic as others.

I use an LCD as my primary display in my old-computer setup. Some LCDs can handle the DOS stuff quite well, including 70Hz refresh modes and DOS VGA/VESA resolutions. Most can not. That doesn't mean that good ones are rare, but they are not well documented.

I have had good luck with Dell monitors. If you find an LCD that can refresh at 75Hz, you can pair it with a scaler such as the GBS-C or OSSC. The scaler will take the output from your video card and it will spit out the same image in a resolution that your LCD can handle. If you find just the right LCD, you can do without the scaler altogether.

I get very good results on my 19 inch 1280x1024 monitor. I have a few good CRTs, but I cannot put any of those on the desk that fits my living space unless I want the viewing screen to be mere inches from my face. It is crowded and leaves no room for my KB, trackball, and joystick. The LCD makes everything fit well like magic. And I get a very large viewing screen.

For a space limited people :
1) Buy capture card for main PC (needs to support 70Hz modes/DOS resolutions, doesn't create much lag [cheap USB stuff is bad at this]),
2) Connect retro PC to capture card and set up software capture
3) Profit

agent_x007 wrote on 2023-03-02, 05:53:

Fore space limited people : 1) Buy capture card for main PC (needs to support 70Hz modes/DOS resolutions, doesn't create much l […]
Show full quote

Fore space limited people :
1) Buy capture card for main PC (needs to support 70Hz modes/DOS resolutions, doesn't create much lag [cheap USB stuff is bad at this]),
2) Connect retro PC to capture card and set up software capture
3) Profit

But don’t these capture cards all create somewhat noticeable lag, if you use them for scaling at least? Even framemeister introduces lag and it has been designed to do scaling ”on the fly”, unlike capture devices, which are designed to do… just capture.

I simply don’t have any experience of those (and no need for them), but subject is still interesting and that’s why I’m asking. The only device I have is OSSC, which I use mainly just for 480p stuff to CRT monitor (og Xbox etc.) and I’m pretty much 100% CRTs with my vintage stuff.

I meant something like Avermedia Gamer 4k (GC573) [with active VGA adapter like this one - LINK, if GPUs you want to use don't have DVI], or Datapath VisionRGB E1S, or even Intensity Pro [4k].
But that last one should be considered only if you can live with composite/component quality (as HDMI on it SUCKS for DOS + S-Video/composite will need usually included adapter cable).

Basicly : Not cheap stuff, which does have issues you pointed out.

For DOS only. Get 15" or max 17" CRT.

19" and 21" are too big for low resolution DOS games.

so what should be considered as best and next best option?

- 15" 1024x768
- 17" 1280x1024
- 19" 1280x1024
-20" 1600x1200

?

Some thought's about it:

1. Having a TFT which can do 720x400 @70hz is important for some dos- and windowgames for smooth scrolling
2. If you have a voodoo1 and use 512x384 you should consider 15" TFT (e.g. Nec L367) to get a great image without jailbars
3. Having a voodoo1 in a system you should optimize your main gfx-card to 60hz and use 75hz refreshrates for the voodoo1. This implies having a mostly centered image when switching between the cards.
4. Some games use scanlines in videos/intros. on some tft's there are different spaces between those scanlines that make the videos ugly.

Doc

Twice I've saved 21" CRT's from been thrown out over the years, both times I gave them away almost immediately as they just take up too much space.
I think 15" or maybe 17" is the sweet spot for dos where you spend most time around the 320x200

Few years ago I came access a haul of CRT's My CRT haul and giveaway (UK only) only one I ended up keeping was the 14" Dell and even that is squeezed behind my modern screens which are good for 800x600 and above and the CRT is supposed to cover anything below or games that use video modes not supported on modern screens.

However for years I used an average Dell 5:4 TFT screen I got free from work for dos. By no means ideal but you get used to it especially if your not comparing side by side to a CRT. Sometimes practicality simply has to win over ideal setups.

agent_x007 wrote on 2023-03-02, 05:53:

For a space limited people : 1) Buy capture card for main PC (needs to support 70Hz modes/DOS resolutions, doesn't create much […]
Show full quote

For a space limited people :
1) Buy capture card for main PC (needs to support 70Hz modes/DOS resolutions, doesn't create much lag [cheap USB stuff is bad at this]),
2) Connect retro PC to capture card and set up software capture
3) Profit

This is in no way an acceptable solution and should not be used to play games. It WILL create noticeable lag, and is insanely convoluted. I use a Datapath Vision E1 and the viewport on my capture computer is at least 2 full frames behind my playing monitor when I use it. This is why cards designed for use in live streaming have passthroughs for the unprocessed video signal to go to the playing monitor.

This is the worst possible solution to OPs problem, and it will create shit results. And you should know better.

DOS-BOX is an infinitely superior solution to what you are suggesting.

kixs wrote on 2023-03-02, 07:44:

For DOS only. Get 15" or max 17" CRT.

19" and 21" are too big for low resolution DOS games.

HE DOESN'T WANT A CRT! IT IS IN THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD!

OP, the most important thing is that your new LCD monitor be able to refresh at 75Hz. The issues of resolution are often handled satisfactorily by the inbuilt scaler, and if that is not the case then you can use an external scaling solution.

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-03-02, 13:57:

This is in no way an acceptable solution and should not be used to play games. It WILL create noticeable lag, and is insanely c […]
Show full quote

agent_x007 wrote on 2023-03-02, 05:53:

For a space limited people : 1) Buy capture card for main PC (needs to support 70Hz modes/DOS resolutions, doesn't create much […]
Show full quote

For a space limited people :
1) Buy capture card for main PC (needs to support 70Hz modes/DOS resolutions, doesn't create much lag [cheap USB stuff is bad at this]),
2) Connect retro PC to capture card and set up software capture
3) Profit

This is in no way an acceptable solution and should not be used to play games. It WILL create noticeable lag, and is insanely convoluted. I use a Datapath Vision E1 and the viewport on my capture computer is at least 2 full frames behind my playing monitor when I use it. This is why cards designed for use in live streaming have passthroughs for the unprocessed video signal to go to the playing monitor.

This is the worst possible solution to OPs problem, and it will create shit results. And you should know better.

DOS-BOX is an infinitely superior solution to what you are suggesting.

It's up to OP to decide what is best for his situation.
From my point of view, it's less convoluted than thinking about resolutions/size etc.
I think my Datapath E1S "lag" is fine for playing games I like to play.
I am not everyone though, and I am also not saying it's the best solution for everyone.

If you don't like, do your thing - not going to stop you.
Still, no need to "bite my head off" because I suggested it though.

dr.zeissler wrote on 2023-03-02, 09:29:

2. If you have a voodoo1 and use 512x384 you should consider 15" TFT (e.g. Nec L367) to get a great image without jailbars

Old TFTs are horrible (15,17), even if some can do 70hz without frame skipping. Very low contrast, 6-bit color internally, long smearing trails on moving objects. Just no. Worst thing you can switch from CRT.

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-03-02, 13:57:

kixs wrote on 2023-03-02, 07:44:

For DOS only. Get 15" or max 17" CRT.

19" and 21" are too big for low resolution DOS games.

HE DOESN'T WANT A CRT! IT IS IN THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD!

OP, the most important thing is that your new LCD monitor be able to refresh at 75Hz. The issues of resolution are often handled satisfactorily by the inbuilt scaler, and if that is not the case then you can use an external scaling solution.

No, you're misreading. He wants a smaller CRT, but can't find any near him. My point is still valid as there is no LCD good enough and larger CRT aren't very good for DOS only.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-03-02, 15:05:

dr.zeissler wrote on 2023-03-02, 09:29:

2. If you have a voodoo1 and use 512x384 you should consider 15" TFT (e.g. Nec L367) to get a great image without jailbars

Old TFTs are horrible (15,17), even if some can do 70hz without frame skipping. Very low contrast, 6-bit color internally, long smearing trails on moving objects. Just no. Worst thing you can switch from CRT.

depends...what TFT would you recommend?

If I had to choose something that old and crunchy with 70+ Hz - probably would look for late professional NEC/EIZO 19 inch IPS/PVA panels (NEC MultiSync LCD1990SXi comes to mind). Basically you get 1280x960 screen with very advanced scaling and additional vertical resolution for Windows GUI environment. Here's a video of 2490WUXi in action, but you get the idea.

Alternatively - something more mainstream-ish, with manufacturing dates around 2005-2007, but with forced 4:3. Less elegant, probably more blurrier due to differences in upscaling algorithms, but works too.

These two Nec models is not available on ebay. Is there other alternative models for Nec

Cheers,

agent_x007 wrote on 2023-03-02, 05:53:

For a space limited people : 1) Buy capture card for main PC (needs to support 70Hz modes/DOS resolutions, doesn't create much […]
Show full quote

For a space limited people :
1) Buy capture card for main PC (needs to support 70Hz modes/DOS resolutions, doesn't create much lag [cheap USB stuff is bad at this]),
2) Connect retro PC to capture card and set up software capture
3) Profit

This. I use OSSC and a PCIe video capture card.

I can use any retro PC without any major hassle, just some tuning in OSSC is needed sometime.