Well polygon count became less problematic with increasing gpu power. So you can afford to start with a high-quality model, dynamic lod systems(what nanite is, but not the only one) can help with reducing count when camera is further or off-focus, without preparing different lod meshes manually. So while tessellation was great in a point of time (most roofs in games(assCreed), stone roads...) and its still useful, it can also be done differently now for many things.

Trueform, that was the first (as far as I know) demonstration of how this can be used, kinda overdid it, to show what it can do. But with newer dx many games started using it, just more subtle (stalker, crysis2, tombraider, assCreed from the top of my head).

r8500 was my first "proper" video card, I had it for a long time and it was amazing and got even better as time went on, so I have fond memories of it.... But now for a "retro" build, I dont see anything, that other cards dont do better or faster. I do have one, just in case 😜

Subtle in Crysis 2? DX11 tessellation in that game was Nvidia shilled garbage, targeted to ruin AMD performance with freaking roadblock tessellation density exceeding resolution of a FullHD screen.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-01-11, 12:17:

Subtle in Crysis 2? DX11 tessellation in that game was Nvidia shilled garbage, targeted to ruin AMD performance with freaking roadblock tessellation density exceeding resolution of a FullHD screen.

I remember Crysis 2 looking objectively less realistic with tesselation enabled. Tessalation in the early DX11 era was basically the lens flare of DX8 era.

The Radeon HD 2000-4000 cards also have non standardized tesellation hardware. I think it was only seen in tech demos? And so does the ATI GPU in Xbox 360 but some games probably used that because it's a known quantity closed platform.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=lU_lB8MPwPY

I think that was a byproduct of a professional feature set, which was never targeted for games. It's easier to add proprietary tessellation in OpenGL as an extension.

havli wrote on 2024-01-07, 10:28:

By the way - are there any 128MB R8500 (275 MHz, non-LE). I have never seen one, only 128MB LEs and R9100.

I got mine a couple years ago on Ebay for I think $42 USD and the seller had the auction labelled "8500LE". The label on the back says its and 8500 128 and so does the 275 clocks.

stef80 wrote on 2024-01-10, 14:43:

FireGl 8800 is good with DX driver, but OpenGL is a no-go. There were modding scripts for R300 in RivaTuner (Radeon-> FireGL, FireGL -> Radeon) and they work up to and including Catalyst 4.12 for OpenGL component. Not sure if anything similar exists for R200 in FireGL form. (I haven't tested if same scripts work for FireGl 8800 , since I don't have one. They work for FireGLX Z1/X1/X2.)

Back in the day most of the mods were for changing Radeon cards into FireGL cards as many people had the want to change their cheaper gaming cards into professional workstation cards than there was for people that wanted to change their much more expensive workstation cards into the much cheaper gaming variety.

Nowadays of course that price difference is reversed.

Here is my Radeon 8500 128MB, default clocked with 275MHz Core and 250MHz Samsung TSOP 4ns memory. Really strange version (because the backside sticker says Radeon 8500 (not LE), but the 4ns Samsung DDR memory runs completely stable with 275Mhz, not higher tested.

Also HERE a older video in demonstration with this card and the Samsung memory clocked to 275MHz.

Mines the 3.6 Infineon memory at 275.

Trashbytes wrote on 2024-01-10, 15:04:

Its weird because there isn't much difference between the 8500 and 8800 aside from the VBIOS and core/vram speeds .. makes me wonder what they changed in the bios that affects OpenGL.

It's probably some zero-ohm resistor in different position connected to GPU registers. Driver will always see it as FGL card regardless of VBIOS.

Grem Five wrote on 2024-01-12, 03:16:

I got mine a couple years ago on Ebay for I think $42 USD and the seller had the auction labelled "8500LE". The label on the bac […]
Show full quote

I got mine a couple years ago on Ebay for I think $42 USD and the seller had the auction labelled "8500LE". The label on the back says its and 8500 128 and so does the 275 clocks.

Nice card, probably late release with BGA memory.

stef80 wrote on 2024-01-13, 09:30:

It's probably some zero-ohm resistor in different position connected to GPU registers. Driver will always see it as FGL card reg […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2024-01-10, 15:04:

Its weird because there isn't much difference between the 8500 and 8800 aside from the VBIOS and core/vram speeds .. makes me wonder what they changed in the bios that affects OpenGL.

It's probably some zero-ohm resistor in different position connected to GPU registers. Driver will always see it as FGL card regardless of VBIOS.

Grem Five wrote on 2024-01-12, 03:16:

I got mine a couple years ago on Ebay for I think $42 USD and the seller had the auction labelled "8500LE". The label on the bac […]
Show full quote

I got mine a couple years ago on Ebay for I think $42 USD and the seller had the auction labelled "8500LE". The label on the back says its and 8500 128 and so does the 275 clocks.

Nice card, probably late release with BGA memory.

My AIW 8500 also has BGA memory, its a full fat 8500 AIW too, normally only see the DV models in this format. As for the other thing, I may just check both the standard 8500 and 8800 out and see if there are any PCB differences, might be possible reconfigure the 8800 if its nothing more than a few zero ohm resistors in a slightly different spot. (Not worried about loosing the 8800, I have a few spares of that card ...got 4 in a bulk deal a few years ago!)

@Grem Five's card would be perfect for comparison. Looks like identical PCB with FGL 8800.
I have one 9000Pro with BGA memory, might also be same PCB.

stef80 wrote on 2024-01-13, 10:30:

@Grem Five's card would be perfect for comparison. Looks like identical PCB with FGL 8800.
I have one 9000Pro with BGA memory, might also be same PCB.

9000 Pro is a rebadged 8500LE .. same clocks and all, though if it has the faster BGA memory then its possible its a down clocked 8500.

It's slightly different chip. with half as many TMUs.

I have two R200 cards.

One is a Chess Radeon 8500 64MB 275/275:

The other is a Dell Radeon 9100 64MB 250/250:

To be honest there is no tangible performance difference between the two..

stef80 wrote on 2024-01-13, 11:28:

It's slightly different chip. with half as many TMUs.

Yup, got it mixed up with the 9100 ..which is the rebadged and down clocked 8500, ATI had too many 9000 series cards with similar specs. The 9100 does have a few PCB differences like the missing small chip (Ramdac?) that the 8500 has. Though not all 8500 cards seem to have this smaller chip, the 9100 also doesn't have the large silver crystal either.

- should clarify its not he large theater chip but the small square one that sits next to the GPU core.

Circled chip

I have encircled most obvious point, where you could do something. There are also other differences.