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Reply 620 of 790, by digger

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chris2021 wrote on 2022-01-24, 20:19:

The reason I ask is because electric vehicles are said to be much heavier then gas cars. Hence they're prone to wear tires out faster.

Even if tires were to wear out faster on EVs (and I couldn't find any clear-cut answers about that on-line), you'd still end up paying much less on maintenance. For one thing, brake pads in EVs definitely don't wear out nearly as quickly as with ICE vehicles, due to regenerative braking. (Perhaps the difference is somewhat less if you really drive like a maniac, but even then, they'll probably still last longer).

Also, you don't have to contend with other recurring expenses such as oil changes and other moving parts that require regular replacements in ICE vehicles.

Reply 622 of 790, by Shagittarius

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digger wrote on 2022-01-28, 17:23:
chris2021 wrote on 2022-01-24, 20:19:

The reason I ask is because electric vehicles are said to be much heavier then gas cars. Hence they're prone to wear tires out faster.

Even if tires were to wear out faster on EVs (and I couldn't find any clear-cut answers about that on-line), you'd still end up paying much less on maintenance. For one thing, brake pads in EVs definitely don't wear out nearly as quickly as with ICE vehicles, due to regenerative braking. (Perhaps the difference is somewhat less if you really drive like a maniac, but even then, they'll probably still last longer).

Also, you don't have to contend with other recurring expenses such as oil changes and other moving parts that require regular replacements in ICE vehicles.

The initial cost of EVs more than makes up for any savings in those areas.

Reply 623 of 790, by BitWrangler

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digger wrote on 2022-01-28, 17:23:
chris2021 wrote on 2022-01-24, 20:19:

The reason I ask is because electric vehicles are said to be much heavier then gas cars. Hence they're prone to wear tires out faster.

Even if tires were to wear out faster on EVs (and I couldn't find any clear-cut answers about that on-line), you'd still end up paying much less on maintenance. For one thing, brake pads in EVs definitely don't wear out nearly as quickly as with ICE vehicles, due to regenerative braking. (Perhaps the difference is somewhat less if you really drive like a maniac, but even then, they'll probably still last longer).

Also, you don't have to contend with other recurring expenses such as oil changes and other moving parts that require regular replacements in ICE vehicles.

It's a how you drive thing for ICE vehicles as well. I have too many health issues to work much on my daily drivers these days so a few years back we went to new econobox and dealer service... and it's making the dealers head explode that we don't need brake pads every two years.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 624 of 790, by digger

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Shagittarius wrote on 2022-01-28, 17:35:

The initial cost of EVs more than makes up for any savings in those areas.

I wouldn't be too sure of that, actually. ICE maintenance costs add up more quickly than one might think, especially when you consider repairs, which are needed much more often than with EVs, simply because the latter have way fewer moving parts inside of them.

Add to that the higher fuel costs, and... Well, it really depends over how many years years you spread the cost.

And of course which model EV you compare to which model ICE vehicle.

It's easy to base comparisons like these on outdated information. The EV market is evolving very rapidly these days.

Where one lives is also a big factor here. You are in California, which is particularly favorable to owning an EV. (Abundant solar power, generous government incentives, and relatively good charging infrastructure. Plus the nice perk of getting to drive in the diamond lanes on the highway, even when no one is travelling with you.)

Last edited by digger on 2022-01-28, 18:46. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 625 of 790, by Shagittarius

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Solar adds to the expense , both in setting it up and choosing to source your power from "Green" options. It's more expensive. I can't speak to government incentives, but given the government we have here I'm sure they are broken too. I know they have diverted funds that normally went for wilderness management in order to build charging stations which has directly led to more wildfires.

Reply 626 of 790, by digger

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Shagittarius wrote on 2022-01-28, 18:43:

Solar adds to the expense , both in setting it up and choosing to source your power from "Green" options. It's more expensive. I can't speak to government incentives, but given the government we have here I'm sure they are broken too. I know they have diverted funds that normally went for wilderness management in order to build charging stations which has directly led to more wildfires.

Even if you don't have an EV, it would be crazy not to slap solar panels on your roof over there. Considering the amount of sunlight your state receives every year, those things earn themselves back in no-time. Probably from the cost savings on your electricity bill for air-conditioning alone.

Even up here, in higher latitudes, it's already economical to do so.

As for incentives, regardless of what you may think of them, if you qualify, why not at least try to apply for them? Take advantage if you can. 🙂

Reply 627 of 790, by Sphere478

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digger wrote on 2022-01-28, 17:23:
chris2021 wrote on 2022-01-24, 20:19:

The reason I ask is because electric vehicles are said to be much heavier then gas cars. Hence they're prone to wear tires out faster.

Even if tires were to wear out faster on EVs (and I couldn't find any clear-cut answers about that on-line), you'd still end up paying much less on maintenance. For one thing, brake pads in EVs definitely don't wear out nearly as quickly as with ICE vehicles, due to regenerative braking. (Perhaps the difference is somewhat less if you really drive like a maniac, but even then, they'll probably still last longer).

Also, you don't have to contend with other recurring expenses such as oil changes and other moving parts that require regular replacements in ICE vehicles.

I’ve owned EVs for like 5-6 years now
The tire eating is kinda a thing. But probably avoidable by just easing into the pedal less 🤣. EVs have all that torque right off the line.

My 500e tore through a set of tires in like 30k but my bolt is seeming to last like twice as long.

I suspect EVs that are awd probably have lot longer lasting tires.

Honestly the lack of maintenance on a EV is a real shock. Literally nothing to do except tires and washer fluid.

So you save on oil changes and brake pads.

154k on my bolt and no pads yet. In fact they are new still

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-01-28, 17:35:
digger wrote on 2022-01-28, 17:23:
chris2021 wrote on 2022-01-24, 20:19:

The reason I ask is because electric vehicles are said to be much heavier then gas cars. Hence they're prone to wear tires out faster.

Even if tires were to wear out faster on EVs (and I couldn't find any clear-cut answers about that on-line), you'd still end up paying much less on maintenance. For one thing, brake pads in EVs definitely don't wear out nearly as quickly as with ICE vehicles, due to regenerative braking. (Perhaps the difference is somewhat less if you really drive like a maniac, but even then, they'll probably still last longer).

Also, you don't have to contend with other recurring expenses such as oil changes and other moving parts that require regular replacements in ICE vehicles.

The initial cost of EVs more than makes up for any savings in those areas.

I sold my gas car for more than I bought my EV

It’s simply untrue that EVs are more costly, there is always a more expensive gas car.

digger wrote on 2022-01-28, 18:41:

It's easy to base comparisons like these on outdated information. The EV market is evolving very rapidly these days.

Yes! Absolutely people don’t seem to get this,

You get people taking about how bad EV batteries are for the enviroment or the EV themselves. But quote data from 20 years ago when EVs only went 100 miles and even then there was still a breakeven point where they became equals to their gas counterparts often at many miles though, but still a single spill in the gulf has caused more harm than all the EV battery mining to date. Another misnomer, not all lithium is mined, we can get it from evaporation of sea water.

Anyway, fast forward to today we now have EVs that don’t even use cobalt in their batteries (one of the materials that people squak about being mined by children, which by the way can also be mined by adults, this is not a EV issue it’s a geopolitical issue.anyway, the latest battery deaigns used less and less of it and now today we have batteries that don’t even use it.
The EVs of today go as far as 500 miles, I even saw a modified tesla doing over 700.

Yeah, this data that people keep parroting about EVs being worse simply isn’t the case for very long, and soon won’t be the case at all.
If you buy a EV today or even better a used newer one and charge it on solar, you are breaking even with the gasser in like 10k or less.

As for solar: there is no debate, get it 🤣.

Just be careful which company you use. Don’t lease.

I put mine in and haven’t had even a penny to pay for power in like 6 years.

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 628 of 790, by digger

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Sphere478 wrote on 2022-01-28, 19:01:

You get people taking about how bad EV batteries are for the enviroment or the EV themselves. But quote data from 20 years ago when EVs only went 100 miles and even then there was still a breakeven point where they became equals to their gas counterparts often at many miles though, but still a single spill in the gulf has caused more harm than all the EV battery mining to date. Another misnomer, not all lithium is mined, we can get it from evaporation of sea water.

I'm as pro-EV as they come, but fair is fair: the days of most new EV models only going 100 miles (or even less) are actually a lot more recent, more like 8 years ago. 😉 (Granted, Teslas at the time already had over twice that range, even then.)

Also, it's true that Lithium can be extracted from sea water, but this is a very energy-intensive process, and not economical, since there are many ways to source Lithium more cheaply. It is true, however, that world-wide Lithium supplies are abundant and more than enough required to eventually replace all ICE vehicles on the road with EVs.

You're also correct about Cobalt. LFP batteries rock. No Nickel or Cobalt needed, and they're cheaper, more durable and safer to boot. All at the cost of a slightly lower energy density, but still acceptable enough for Tesla to put them in some of their Model 3s.

But battery recycling technology (and world-wide recycling capacity) is expected to take off quickly as well, simply because these materials are too valuable to dump on landfills. There's gold in them thar spent batteries.

Speaking of spent batteries, over the last decade, it became clear that EV battery degradation turned out to be much less of an issue than initially feared, with the exception of some very hot regions. Even for prospective EV buyers there, thermal battery management has improved substantially in newer EV models in the last few years.

The EV revolution has only just started to ramp up.

Seriously, people: buying a new non-preowned ICE vehicle is about the most foolish investment you can make. The resale value (already bad) will plummet even further in the near future.

If you need to buy a car, and you absolutely have to get an ICE vehicle (and you really should do some research to challenge any assumptions there!), then try to get a pre-owned one as cheaply as possible. But if you still have a functional and safe car, and you can't afford an EV yet (or there isn't a model out yet that meets your needs), keep driving your old workhorse for a tad bit longer, and then get an EV later when you can. Seriously, don't waste money on a shiny new ICE vehicle. You'd regret it.

Reply 629 of 790, by BitWrangler

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Solar, wind + EVs would be my ideal setup.. but my current domicile is a bit limited, southern exposure shaded by foliage, which means I guess I get an AC discount in the hot months. I have only recently become financially stable and more secure, before that it was one screwup away from crippling debt load and not a lot of discretionary spending. Ergo, while I could have and considered getting an EV 10 years ago, I had to hold off due to there being too many unknown unknowns... Also the "regulatory cost" of vehicle ownership is about $2000 a year per vehicle here, so second car option is 2000 in the hole before it uses anything up or wears anything out. Also while you might say, gas car is $20k new, but cheap electric only $30k... well I can just squeeze the $20k... the $30k will cost less to run, so equivalent outlay over time equal... BUT the EV that matches all parameters of the 20k gasser is 50k not 30k! ... so buy a used one... yeah, the 50k models hitting 20k are the ones at end of "pessimistic" battery life projections, and actual in the field battery data isn't that clear yet, so nah. (Though buying older still models that battery actually dead for a couple of thousand and putting brand new battery in is looking more attractive these days) ... I am actually more attracted to PHEV on the whole.. I think the range on those is enough to cut gasoline consumption 90% for us.

Solar I have concerns about in our area, basically all the time to payoff things are done on the hugely subsidised feed in tariff, which does not seem sustainable and our power industry always seems in a state of imminent collapse*, from repeated and continual mismanagement and political meddling. Ergo, I do all cost/benefit on producing power I can use, when I can use it, and it's just about getting breakeven nowadays.

*The kind of financial shell company and legal framework collapse that leaves everything standing and the lights still on but nobody actually responsible for contracts owing.

Anyway, anyone who says "solar power is practical in Ontario, Canada" means, if you've got either got about 3000 square feet of unshaded southern or south western area to fill and a large battery bank, or are getting a buck every couple of kilowatts from a government slush fund to feed it in whether the grid wants it or not (Particularly a problem in spring and fall, and it's really the credit that accumulates for unwanted power in those months that gets you through the winter.)

However, from planet California where the sun always shines, salaries are triple and all the expenses look cheap, this might not look like significant problems.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 630 of 790, by BitWrangler

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digger wrote on 2022-01-28, 19:55:

Seriously, people: buying a new non-preowned ICE vehicle is about the most foolish investment you can make. The resale value (already bad) will plummet even further in the near future.

If you need to buy a car, and you absolutely have to get an ICE vehicle (and you really should do some research to challenge any assumptions there!), then try to get a pre-owned one as cheaply as possible.

About that, it was good advice from 1950 through 2008 and then it wasn't until about 2018, because the 2008 crash put enough of a ding into availability of used cars that for a few years there was the stupidity of cars sitting on used lots priced higher than new... that's going to be happening again.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 632 of 790, by Sphere478

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robertmo wrote on 2022-03-11, 08:07:
full electric vehicles % sales in: China: 13% Europe: 10% US: 3,4% […]
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full electric vehicles % sales in:
China: 13%
Europe: 10%
US: 3,4%

I love my EV especially now 🤣.

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 633 of 790, by Intel486dx33

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robertmo wrote on 2022-03-11, 08:07:
full electric vehicles % sales in: China: 13% Europe: 10% US: 3,4% […]
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full electric vehicles % sales in:
China: 13%
Europe: 10%
US: 3,4%

Watch out for Volkswagen EV’s.

Reply 634 of 790, by Cuttoon

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10+ % adoption rate of a novel technology is wayyyy beyond break even, that ship has sailed, the ICE is heading the way of the dodo.

Captain Obvious would like you to know:

If you're used to driving everywhere in your overblown 2-ton gas guzzling cockmobile, fueled by dinosaur juice mainly imported from places with militaristic asshole regimes...

- right now would be an awesome time to rethink that habit, huh?

I like jumpers.

Reply 635 of 790, by robertmo

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2022-03-11, 16:16:
robertmo wrote on 2022-03-11, 08:07:
full electric vehicles % sales in: China: 13% Europe: 10% US: 3,4% […]
Show full quote

full electric vehicles % sales in:
China: 13%
Europe: 10%
US: 3,4%

Watch out for Volkswagen EV’s.

At the bottom of Atlantic ocean

Reply 636 of 790, by Meatball

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Cuttoon wrote on 2022-03-11, 16:30:
10+ % adoption rate of a novel technology is wayyyy beyond break even, that ship has sailed, the ICE is heading the way of the d […]
Show full quote

10+ % adoption rate of a novel technology is wayyyy beyond break even, that ship has sailed, the ICE is heading the way of the dodo.

Captain Obvious would like you to know:

If you're used to driving everywhere in your overblown 2-ton gas guzzling cockmobile, fueled by dinosaur juice mainly imported from places with militaristic asshole regimes...

- right now would be an awesome time to rethink that habit, huh?

What?... You're in Germany, right?

***->WINNER, 1ST PLACE<-***
2022 #QUAKE3totheMAX -560.5fps-
Brain Drain Retro LAN https://discord.com/channels/799008837918261328
Windows ME
NForce2 A7N8X-E DLX
Athlon 848/154MHz
DDR@411MHz (2-3-3-3)
GeForce 256 DDR@144/344MHz
ESS Maestr0-1

Reply 637 of 790, by Cuttoon

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Meatball wrote on 2022-03-11, 16:41:
Cuttoon wrote on 2022-03-11, 16:30:
10+ % adoption rate of a novel technology is wayyyy beyond break even, that ship has sailed, the ICE is heading the way of the d […]
Show full quote

10+ % adoption rate of a novel technology is wayyyy beyond break even, that ship has sailed, the ICE is heading the way of the dodo.

Captain Obvious would like you to know:

If you're used to driving everywhere in your overblown 2-ton gas guzzling cockmobile, fueled by dinosaur juice mainly imported from places with militaristic asshole regimes...

- right now would be an awesome time to rethink that habit, huh?

What?... You're in Germany, right?

I'm in Berlin, so that's up to your definition. Your point being?

I like jumpers.

Reply 638 of 790, by Meatball

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Cuttoon wrote on 2022-03-11, 16:44:
Meatball wrote on 2022-03-11, 16:41:
Cuttoon wrote on 2022-03-11, 16:30:
10+ % adoption rate of a novel technology is wayyyy beyond break even, that ship has sailed, the ICE is heading the way of the d […]
Show full quote

10+ % adoption rate of a novel technology is wayyyy beyond break even, that ship has sailed, the ICE is heading the way of the dodo.

Captain Obvious would like you to know:

If you're used to driving everywhere in your overblown 2-ton gas guzzling cockmobile, fueled by dinosaur juice mainly imported from places with militaristic asshole regimes...

- right now would be an awesome time to rethink that habit, huh?

What?... You're in Germany, right?

I'm in Berlin, so that's up to your definition. Your point being?

Let me know where this magical land free of being "fueled by dinosaur juice mainly imported from places with militaristic asshole regimes.." is located. I'll join you in moving there.

***->WINNER, 1ST PLACE<-***
2022 #QUAKE3totheMAX -560.5fps-
Brain Drain Retro LAN https://discord.com/channels/799008837918261328
Windows ME
NForce2 A7N8X-E DLX
Athlon 848/154MHz
DDR@411MHz (2-3-3-3)
GeForce 256 DDR@144/344MHz
ESS Maestr0-1

Reply 639 of 790, by Intel486dx33

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The Real GREEN Energy American Family Car.
The Fred Flint Stone Car in Wyoming USA.

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