TrashPanda wrote on 2022-03-18, 21:36:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-03-18, 09:32:

11 wasn't just incomplete but it's pretty broken for me too. Idk how but Safe Mode doesn't work, instead I get the following:

did you try turning it off and then on again ?

that tends to fix Windows, it doesnt like the dark.

This problem has seen the new year even and I tried turning off and on, never helping. Even Windows Update has become buggy, I download all the updates from catalog.microsoft.com instead. Windows 10 did me better to be honest, but something keeps me on 11...

RandomStranger wrote on 2022-03-18, 09:29:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-03-18, 09:12:

People still use the Windows default file explorer ? […]
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appiah4 wrote on 2022-03-18, 09:01:

https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/15/22979251/m … dows-11-testing

People still use the Windows default file explorer ?

For everyway MS fucks windows there is a way to unfuck it, is it a little bit of work . .sure, but if you hate adds and other unwanted crap then you can get rid of it easy enough, again its only worth it I guess if you need the support that Windows 10/11 provide for modern hardware, if you can exist on windows 7 then you have a solution 😁

The underlying OS is good once you remove/replace all the MS junk.

I don't know. For me since 10 Windows became absolutely un-unfuckable to the point that I just gave up on it.

Wow... I already gave up around '98. Cheers. 😁

I may be in the minority but I actually like 11, but only with explorer patcher enabled. Especially with the recent update that lets you have a Windows 10 start menu. It's just as fast as 10 with core isolation disabled.

I just did a fresh install of 11 from a bootable USB drive. It took 10 minutes from format to desktop. The only drivers need were for Intel chipset and Nvidia's latest. It even picked up my wireless without issue while installing to grab the latest updates.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-03-18, 21:41:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-03-18, 21:36:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-03-18, 09:32:

11 wasn't just incomplete but it's pretty broken for me too. Idk how but Safe Mode doesn't work, instead I get the following:

did you try turning it off and then on again ?

that tends to fix Windows, it doesnt like the dark.

This problem has seen the new year even and I tried turning off and on, never helping. Even Windows Update has become buggy, I download all the updates from catalog.microsoft.com instead. Windows 10 did me better to be honest, but something keeps me on 11...

Mate I was being an ass . .sorry, its a common IT support trope, just tell the user to turn the PC off then back on.

That said .. this has actually worked quite a few times with my gaming PC when 11 decides to get a little confused about updates ...restarting several times fixes the dementia and windows goes back to working like it never had an issue.

But if your install has hit the "Windows Repair" cant solve the issue and it wont even boot then you may have to nuke and pave, thankfully windows 10/11 dont take long to reinstall.

beats me. I stopped caring after XP.

ptr1ck wrote on 2022-03-18, 22:52:

I may be in the minority but I actually like 11, but only with explorer patcher enabled. Especially with the recent update that lets you have a Windows 10 start menu. It's just as fast as 10 with core isolation disabled.

I just did a fresh install of 11 from a bootable USB drive. It took 10 minutes from format to desktop. The only drivers need were for Intel chipset and Nvidia's latest. It even picked up my wireless without issue while installing to grab the latest updates.

Same here - I don't mind Win 11. And I think that's generally what you'll find in the real world, you know, outside of retro tech forums. People don't like or dislike Windows. It's simply the Main Program that runs all of their other crap, so they tend to forget about it. And with the "Windows" name not even appearing on startup anymore, really young users may not realize that it's even there! All of that boring memory management, processor scheduling and thread spawning (which I'm sure they're totally aware of)? Why, that's probably being handled by the Dell itself! What the hell's an operating system?

Now I'm really going to fan the flames.

Not only do I think that modern Windows is a fine OS, I also don't mind modern office suites, browsers, modern games and their modern launchers, etc. In fact, I prefer all of that new "bloated" software *. Yes, it all updates in the background & probably consumes a billion times more MIPS, FLOPS and RAM than the old stuff, but I don't notice it, so I don't care. It just works, and that is super great. The horsepower's there, so why not take advantage of it? Both hardware and software developers have worked their butts off to get us to where we are now, so jeez, why not cut them just a bit of slack? They more than effin' deserve it.

*By the way, I still try to get in at least a couple hours of DOS-Win98 gaming every weekend (on real hardware, to boot)! So please, don't take my VOGONS posting permissions away just yet. 😀

ptr1ck wrote on 2022-03-18, 22:52:

I may be in the minority but I actually like 11

Nar I'm confident that people who rage about windows are well and truly in the minority - it's just an OS and based on my experience, and the almost zero "support requests" I get from family members these days, it's managing to do its job and stay out of the way.

I've always found W10 to be quick to boot and super stable so when W11 comes knocking I'll let it in.

A related question is why they suddenly backed down on their promises of Windows 10 being the "last point version of the operating system".

I would even venture and guess the answer to these questions has something to do with the significant increase in the hardware requirements, in an era where a hardware upgrade is not only significantly more expensive than usual but also provides a much lower RoI than it used to...

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-03-18, 15:48:

I don't think that it is fair to blame capitalism. It is the modern world of connectivity and the perils that come with having so much information readily available because of that.
Operating systems can't remain static because NOTHING is static at this point. How often does code have to be patched to be secure? How often does your browser update, graphics drivers? Game updates? Workstation updates to office productivity software?

It isn't just Windows/MacOS/Linux whatever the case and pick your flavor. It is the entire ecosystem. The world today isn't the same as it was 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago. We have to run as fast as we can to stay in the same place.

Why do we have to run to remain on the same place? Because tech companies must keep selling the same functionality over and over to make lots and lots of money.
Why do companies release rushed software to fix it later? Because properly maintaining software costs money, and they need to expend as little as possible to make more money, or expend this effort adding fluff to it instead, to make it more attractive as a product.
And finally, why do companies need to make lots and lots of money? Because they are going to be swallowed by their competitors if they don't.

So basically for every actual improvement in software/hardware, we are forced to have a "business case" to go with it. Keep in mind I never said that software as a service is a bad thing, my complain is aimed toward the clear priority of making software profitable above anything else , including quality and actual positive impact on people's lives (which is the exact definition of capitalism).
Maybe this competition for profit was good until some point (i.e. when quality meant more profit), but right now it's starting to hurt progress on every area.

Lmao the new Gadgets panel doesn't work here, congrats to M$.

beats me. I stopped caring after XP.

I still have XP installed, perhaps for the same reason...

I've always found W10 to be quick to boot and super stable so when W11 comes knocking I'll let it in.

There's no doubt that Windows 10/11 is great, they are feature packed. It would be much greater if they stopped the forced telemetry and stabilised things for users, and not having to give "DON'T INSTALL THIS UPDATE, XX CPU USERS"

I've got Windows 11 on 2 laptops as well as a desktop.

Haven't had any issues at all and it is bone stock on all 3 of those computers.

cyclone3d wrote on 2022-03-19, 05:52:

I've got Windows 11 on 2 laptops as well as a desktop.

Haven't had any issues at all and it is bone stock on all 3 of those computers.

The experience was same for me with Windows 10. While people were complaining on its updates and instability, I never had any problems. I think I had 3-5 BSODs with Windows 10 at most, while I already had 3 this month. What other people complained for Windows 10, is what I experience in 11, like look at this non-functioning Widgets panel...

leonardo wrote on 2022-03-18, 22:41:

RandomStranger wrote on 2022-03-18, 09:29:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-03-18, 09:12:

People still use the Windows default file explorer ?

For everyway MS fucks windows there is a way to unfuck it, is it a little bit of work . .sure, but if you hate adds and other unwanted crap then you can get rid of it easy enough, again its only worth it I guess if you need the support that Windows 10/11 provide for modern hardware, if you can exist on windows 7 then you have a solution 😁

The underlying OS is good once you remove/replace all the MS junk.

I don't know. For me since 10 Windows became absolutely un-unfuckable to the point that I just gave up on it.

Wow... I already gave up around '98. Cheers. 😁

Yeah, but back then the alternatives were lacking. Today there are absolutely viable alternatives so you can give up on your hopes and move on to something else rather than give up on hopes and begrudgingly stick with it.

RandomStranger wrote on 2022-03-19, 08:59:

leonardo wrote on 2022-03-18, 22:41:

RandomStranger wrote on 2022-03-18, 09:29:

I don't know. For me since 10 Windows became absolutely un-unfuckable to the point that I just gave up on it.

Wow... I already gave up around '98. Cheers. 😁

Yeah, but back then the alternatives were lacking. Today there are absolutely viable alternatives so you can give up on your hopes and move on to something else rather than give up on hopes and begrudgingly stick with it.

I am planning to move on to Linux, but there's a lot of things from Windows that Wine still doesn't has. That is what is holding me. It is also inconvenient to keep changing PCs for a particular task so I am stuck.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-03-19, 09:47:

I am planning to move on to Linux, but there's a lot of things from Windows that Wine still doesn't has. That is what is holding me. It is also inconvenient to keep changing PCs for a particular task so I am stuck.

I did the complete transfer around 2 years ago when I got my new daily driver. I had some run-ins with dual booting around 10 years ago, but back then Linux gaming (other than gaming consol emulation) was iffy. Rebooting just to play after a while made me drop Linux. Everything else I needed either had native ports, worked well with Wine or had alternatives just as good or better than what I was used to. Then came Proton and Lutris and I dropped Windows completely. Playing recent multiplayer games through a compatibility layer still has issues, EasyAntiCheat and BattlEye completely blocks games from connecting to a server, but I don't give a shit about those.

I just googled Lutris and Proton, and oh wow..

WhatsApp has been crashing on this OS since day 1 for me, and Instagram just started working recently. I don't care about these apps at all, but if they had to put these apps on PCs and go towards that direction, there's a lot of work to do.

My problem in using proton is that some games run a bit slower. Considering my hardware is low end, I need every fps I can get for the newer stuff.
Overall running windows games under linux is very good, specially older titles. But for newer games it is still not as good as running under native windows, so dual boot is what a lot linux users end up doing.
Too bad because going full linux would be great.

Compatibility layers will always have an overhead. Though some games are said to be faster through Proton than running them on Windows (maybe the OS itself has way less overhead compared to Windows than what the compatibility layer adds?). I can't verify though. I don't do (modern) Windows anymore.

Also it's good to look around for custom kernels. LiquorX is for example faster for gaming than the default kernel for the most popular distros.

RandomStranger wrote on 2022-03-19, 16:04:

Compatibility layers will always have an overhead.

That's just not true at all, mostly because "compatibility layer" is a very loosely defined thing. Technically I could even argue than any Win32 application runs under a "compatibility layer" even in Windows.
You should not think that it's adding extra abstraction layers or the like, despite the name. It could be just a different implementation of the same API, and might actually go through less layers than the original.