And when they do expire you can lob them on top of the neighbor's shanty.

Is the milk any better tasting in Canada? Do you drink goat's milk? They had to give me that as a baby, with hamburger mixed in. I was anemic. I don't drink milk with hamburger these days.

aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 21:58:

chris2021 wrote on 2022-03-29, 20:37:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-03-29, 20:09:

I've seen a few that just tried some PSUs and basically tried them blindly. They should have known the risks and they either take the risk or they don't know what they are doing. Checking the innards of a soon-to-be-used PSU is the least you should do, if only to make sure everything is in right order (no burnt or leaky stuff). I do the same with every part, give it a visual inspection.

Applying power to retro parts without checking first is like drinking milk straight out of the carton without first checking the expiry date or without smelling it first.

I've killed for less then that. And perhaps you should be considerate of other nations that don't have the luxury of milk cartons. Like Canada, where their milk comes in a sack (no not the cow's sack sheesh!).

actually we have both if your buying 2L or less it comes in a carton only 4L comes in bags. plus the expiry date is on the bag

Smelling? Checking the date?

DO YOU HAVE A DEATH WISH, SON?!?

I survived three years in a frat house.
We do have regulation for a reason.

Milk carton drill:
a) keep you distance, squint at it. Does it move on its own?
b) Address it in a firm, yet polite voice - has it become self aware?
c) will it repel a standard issue crucifix?
d) shake test, arm fully extended. How is the the overall consistency, inertia, viscosity? Liquid, liquid-solid conglomerate or non-newtonian fluid?

- if all that checks out, you may proceed to
e) date - of limited value. Modern milk will stay OK sealed and refrigerated for three weeks or three hours on a flatmate's radiator because that was the last place not covered by makeshift ash trays.
f) smell test - modern milk is both pasteurised and refrigerated so it will not turn "sour" in the natural way that 10,000 years of our genetic history have internalized.
Modern milk in a fridge is subject to anaerobic putridity aka "rot" that is much nastier and harder to digest but less obvious to our olfactory senses. Maybe you have corona?
g) Exploratory coffee application - if it solidifies into little flocks, you're doing it wrong.
Pour fresh coffee, start with next carton at a)

Under no circumstances, never, for the love of god, just imbibe any of it. Ever.

🤣 who's issuing the cruicifix'? And what distinguishes standard from otherwise? Do some spray holy water? Does it thereby have an expiration date, heaven forbid.

Oh I get it. Standard denotes COE or possibly even COS. Other denominations vary in effectiveness, I guess. Are ankhs known to repel rancid cow dribblys to any extent?

And uh flatmate? I think I'll leave that one alone.

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-03-29, 16:10:

aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 15:57:

why take chance that the thing will blow up an ruin perfectly good retro hardware.

bEcAuSe iT's pArT oF tHe rEtRo eXpErIeNcE! 🤣 🤣 🤣

This.

Frankly, to quote a famous Canadian philosopher, I completely fail to grasp what all the fuzz is aboot.

What does a PSU do?
It supplies power.
That's pretty much the extend of its complexity and raison d'être.
To elaborate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6kgPe2bSkA
(yes, exactly - that bit is significantly even more banal in German. Germany, fuck yeah!)

Also, it supplies power in a far less complex way electrically than whatever supplies power in a Max-Weber-sense to Vladimir Putin.

Meaning, if there are five Volts, well, there will be five Volts. What else do you wish for?

They are neither magic nor particularly complex in a post 1970 way of speaking.
Any measure of "efficiency" is a rather modern idea, yes.

But in terms of MTBF?

What's easier to cover and get right, the $500 PSU of an $5000 rig of the 1980s or a $50 PSU of a $500 one of the 2000s?

You tell me, I did not check.

In my personal, limited internal statistic, the usual PSU of 198x to 1999 had not 250, but exactly 200 Watts.
Actually, make that 100 W since it had the 5 V lane at 20 Amps and then some 12 V stuff which really ever was for really huge, bulky hard disk drives the size of of a small fridge. If you had quite a lot of those.
So, apart from the boiler room and all those Parson's turbines, the whole "logic" part of your blinking road block was based on 5 V and how much Amps do you expect that to use, on no to passive heatsink conditions?
It's the semiconductor equivalent of a nautical signal lantern, not a flak searchlight.

Things like this:

That thing is really obsolete. You can tell by the fact that the nameplate voltage of the friggin grid has been updated to 230V since it was made.
Also, it has had about 3 minutes of use by now.
Bought it in mint condition and NOS.

Huge downside: that thing is full size AT and weighs as much as the average parasol stand.
But, if you're going to refurbish a 1991 Highscreen full tower, no way around it.
If not, you can still throw it from the balcony at ugly people, for the lulz.

Will it go rogue eventually? Some fine day.
Will it take out your entire hardware attached to it? Less likely.
Will it be worth worrying about that now?
Full answer:
a) Your entire hardware includes a mint condition LAPC-I: Yes.
b) Your entire hardware does not include a mint condition LAPC-I: No.

So, of course, do a dry test before drinking from that milk carton.
If you have something at hand that seems better, use that.
But, should you get a fancy, retail adapter for any random ATX PSU that maybe, perhaps, might last somewhat longer? No. Because statistically, it will not in any reasonable timeframe that does not involve Ukrainian or Japanese nuclear facilities.
Should you buy a new 1500 W redundant gold-plated ATX PSU with adapter to power some random, utterly expandable DX/2-66?
Go f*** youself, f****** yuppie s***.

chris2021 wrote on 2022-03-29, 23:14:

🤣 who's issuing the cruicifix'? And what distinguishes standard from otherwise? Do some spray holy water? Does it thereby have an expiration date, heaven forbid.

Actually, I never asked. We had some weird older member we used to address by "Dr. van H." who supplied those to us.
Also, oaken poles, to fend off girls.
And crack.

chris2021 wrote on 2022-03-29, 23:14:

Oh I get it. Standard denotes COE or possibly even COS. Other denominations vary in effectiveness, I guess. Are ankhs known to repel rancid cow dribblys to any extent?

Does not compute. We had a lot of OCD, though.

chris2021 wrote on 2022-03-29, 20:37:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-03-29, 20:09:

aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 17:08:

i seen a few youtubers build systems out of all new in box stuff and they did it full ocd were every part had to be period correct both of them had psus that went boom as soon as they were plugged in. i'm all for using period correct stuff when it comes to cpus and gpus. but a psu makes 0 dif to 99% of systems a new psu will not make the system work any dif then a period correct one and a new one has a lot less chance of blowing up and take out expensive stuff.

I've seen a few that just tried some PSUs and basically tried them blindly. They should have known the risks and they either take the risk or they don't know what they are doing. Checking the innards of a soon-to-be-used PSU is the least you should do, if only to make sure everything is in right order (no burnt or leaky stuff). I do the same with every part, give it a visual inspection.

Applying power to retro parts without checking first is like drinking milk straight out of the carton without first checking the expiry date or without smelling it first.

I've killed for less then that.

😳

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-03-29, 22:29:

Smelling? Checking the date? […]
Show full quote

aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 21:58:

chris2021 wrote on 2022-03-29, 20:37:

I've killed for less then that. And perhaps you should be considerate of other nations that don't have the luxury of milk cartons. Like Canada, where their milk comes in a sack (no not the cow's sack sheesh!).

actually we have both if your buying 2L or less it comes in a carton only 4L comes in bags. plus the expiry date is on the bag

Smelling? Checking the date?

DO YOU HAVE A DEATH WISH, SON?!?

I survived three years in a frat house.
We do have regulation for a reason.

Milk carton drill:
a) keep you distance, squint at it. Does it move on its own?
b) Address it in a firm, yet polite voice - has it become self aware?
c) will it repel a standard issue crucifix?
d) shake test, arm fully extended. How is the the overall consistency, inertia, viscosity? Liquid, liquid-solid conglomerate or non-newtonian fluid?

- if all that checks out, you may proceed to
e) date - of limited value. Modern milk will stay OK sealed and refrigerated for three weeks or three hours on a flatmate's radiator because that was the last place not covered by makeshift ash trays.
f) smell test - modern milk is both pasteurised and refrigerated so it will not turn "sour" in the natural way that 10,000 years of our genetic history have internalized.
Modern milk in a fridge is subject to anaerobic putridity aka "rot" that is much nastier and harder to digest but less obvious to our olfactory senses. Maybe you have corona?
g) Exploratory coffee application - if it solidifies into little flocks, you're doing it wrong.
Pour fresh coffee, start with next carton at a)

Under no circumstances, never, for the love of god, just imbibe any of it. Ever.

Now I know more about milk than I needed to know xD
But seriously, some good info there I wasn't really aware of, though I don't actually drink any since I don't really like the taste even if it's just been opened.

anaerobic putridity

Are you sure you didn't mean aerobic btw? Anaerobic is without oxygen unless it's been packaged in a protected atmosphere (it's what it's called in Dutch, not sure if this is the correct in English).

chris2021 wrote on 2022-03-29, 22:14:

And when they do expire you can lob them on top of the neighbor's shanty.

Is the milk any better tasting in Canada? Do you drink goat's milk? They had to give me that as a baby, with hamburger mixed in. I was anemic. I don't drink milk with hamburger these days.

The thing is that it's often fairly easy to see if any parts within a PSU have expired.
And the first thing I always do when checking a 'new' PSU (one which to me is yet to be tested) is to see if the fan(s) spin. If not when supposed to (which is usually always) I diswconnect power to the PSU immediately.

Yes I'm proud of myself. Perhaps the only thing I got done today i.e it's finally screwed to the case.

Just wish I knew why about 50% +/- of the time the thing refuses to startup.

Now I just have to modify the **it io plate that came with the mobo, or cut into a blank.

Radical Vision wrote on 2022-03-29, 19:25:

Oyyy YES believe me i have seen a PSU SO BAD it was light AF, and the casing was even more thin then most units out there and it […]
Show full quote

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-03-29, 19:13:

I put it on the scale. I also took a photo of the innards. Do you have one that weighs even less?

Oyyy YES believe me i have seen a PSU SO BAD it was light AF, and the casing was even more thin then most units out there and it was even smaller too total garbage... I dont own that "thing" anymore so cant measure it, BUT it was the lightest PSU i have ever saw.....

Как изглежда едно захранване бомба (китайско).jpg
Как изглежда едно захранване бомба (китайско) 2.jpg
IMG_20160305_142848.jpg

Some more garbage...

20150330_154515.jpg

The JAR and Switching one look actually good. Mind opening them up? I have two of those that were rebuilt (by myself) and they're rather sturdy once you work them a little. One powers a P4 HT 3.0GHz (Prescott) and the other powers a K6-2.

As for why I wouldn't pay for a Delta/Seasonic/FSP - not worth it. I'd rather fix up one of those cheaper units and know that it's my recapping and completing work that's powering it.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-03-30, 08:50:

Radical Vision wrote on 2022-03-29, 19:25:

Oyyy YES believe me i have seen a PSU SO BAD it was light AF, and the casing was even more thin then most units out there and it […]
Show full quote

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-03-29, 19:13:

I put it on the scale. I also took a photo of the innards. Do you have one that weighs even less?

Oyyy YES believe me i have seen a PSU SO BAD it was light AF, and the casing was even more thin then most units out there and it was even smaller too total garbage... I dont own that "thing" anymore so cant measure it, BUT it was the lightest PSU i have ever saw.....

Как изглежда едно захранване бомба (китайско).jpg
Как изглежда едно захранване бомба (китайско) 2.jpg
IMG_20160305_142848.jpg

Some more garbage...

20150330_154515.jpg

The JAR and Switching one look actually good. Mind opening them up? I have two of those that were rebuilt (by myself) and they're rather sturdy once you work them a little. One powers a P4 HT 3.0GHz (Prescott) and the other powers a K6-2.

As for why I wouldn't pay for a Delta/Seasonic/FSP - not worth it. I'd rather fix up one of those cheaper units and know that it's my recapping and completing work that's powering it.

Have you ever made a thread where you clarify how you fix them up? I think it would be a rather interesting read 🙂

Don't really need much of a thread to post one of my rebuilt units.

What was done to this unit:

-transformers replaced. Those "LT" marked transformers weren't original to this unit. They came from a surprisingly anorexic-heatsinked Premier LC-B400ATX that had a blown bridge rectifier and main transistors, yet surprisingly those "beefy" transformers were hiding in there unsuspected.
-heatsinks aren't original either. These came from a scrapped DR-A300ATX which had severe PCB delamination. Original heatsinks to this ANS were some horribly anorexic T-shaped heatsinks.
-for caps, I didn't touch it too much. The only ones I replaced were 5vSB (Sanyo WG 1500uF 6.3v - I used that low of a voltage since it filters a 5v rail. No need to use 10v.) and a few DONs on the 5v side which I used some spare Suscons as I had no more japcaps left at that time.
-while at it, also added a SATA power chain (the kind that uses 3.3v as well!), and replaced the puny diodes-on-bracket with a STPS20S100CT 20A 100v rectifier.
-main filtering was also redone by me with the leftover parts from the delaminated DR-A300ATX. The main blue caps are original to this unit though.
I would've posted the one from the P4 HT 3GHz unit as that one has had more extensive work done to it, but exactly because of that (mainly new cables being thick, they come from a totally dead Thermaltake TR2-420NP) it's hard for me to remove it from the case it sits in right now.

And for the record - this is powering a K6-2 500. I really couldn't be arsed to replace it since it still has a -5v rail and since it doesn't eat too much power, I didn't see the need to recap it fully.

Tetrium wrote on 2022-03-30, 08:35:

Are you sure you didn't mean aerobic btw? Anaerobic is without oxygen unless it's been packaged in a protected atmosphere (it's what it's called in Dutch, not sure if this is the correct in English).

It's not really sterile to begin with and any milk carton in that environment becomes a petri dish the moment you open it. So, there will be both aerobic and anaerobic germs around.
The main point is just that it won't turn in any kind of "sour milk" or yoghurt, in an traditional sense, ever. In case some old people tell you they used to drink sour milk all the time in a time before refrigerators - yes, but not rotten.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-03-30, 15:13:

Don't really need much of a thread to post one of my rebuilt units. […]
Show full quote

Don't really need much of a thread to post one of my rebuilt units.

20220330_175848.jpg20220330_175903.jpg20220330_175906.jpg20220330_175926.jpg
20220330_175918.jpg

What was done to this unit:

-transformers replaced. Those "LT" marked transformers weren't original to this unit. They came from a surprisingly anorexic-heatsinked Premier LC-B400ATX that had a blown bridge rectifier and main transistors, yet surprisingly those "beefy" transformers were hiding in there unsuspected.
-heatsinks aren't original either. These came from a scrapped DR-A300ATX which had severe PCB delamination. Original heatsinks to this ANS were some horribly anorexic T-shaped heatsinks.
-for caps, I didn't touch it too much. The only ones I replaced were 5vSB (Sanyo WG 1500uF 6.3v - I used that low of a voltage since it filters a 5v rail. No need to use 10v.) and a few DONs on the 5v side which I used some spare Suscons as I had no more japcaps left at that time.
-while at it, also added a SATA power chain (the kind that uses 3.3v as well!), and replaced the puny diodes-on-bracket with a STPS20S100CT 20A 100v rectifier.
-main filtering was also redone by me with the leftover parts from the delaminated DR-A300ATX. The main blue caps are original to this unit though.
I would've posted the one from the P4 HT 3GHz unit as that one has had more extensive work done to it, but exactly because of that (mainly new cables being thick, they come from a totally dead Thermaltake TR2-420NP) it's hard for me to remove it from the case it sits in right now.

And for the record - this is powering a K6-2 500. I really couldn't be arsed to replace it since it still has a -5v rail and since it doesn't eat too much power, I didn't see the need to recap it fully.

Wow, now that is dedication. For the cost of that operation in a commercial repair shop you could have had the Chinese build ten new PSUs, easily. So, you win conservation hero of the day! 😀

Still looking for any empirical confirmation that old AT units are any more likely to blow than cheap ATX ones. Only one that damaged a system of mine was a rather fancy ATX model.
Not sure any more where I got these two - most likely some ten Euro ebay deal. They're being offloaded on Ebay by the dozen, it seems.
They work just fine and I'm rather confident that they'd consume significantly less power with old systems, even with their 400W overkill rating. 80plus and such.
And they still have the exact same 20A rating in 5V, like 30 years earlier.
But, would I trust them to be more reliable? Hardly.
They have a Gorilla on them, so there's that. 😉

Looks like a rebadged Seasonic. Wonder if it's from the HT series, as the casing and heatsinks kinda look like that.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-03-30, 19:08:

Looks like a rebadged Seasonic. Wonder if it's from the HT series, as the casing and heatsinks kinda look like that.

You mean the gorilla box? Seasonic would be a good sign - they've been around since almost forever, they must be doing something right.

Well, they work and are reasonably quiet.
Thanks for the hint!

By the way, on AT PSUs in general:
Roughly one in ten I meet actually has a temp regulated fan as a feature, advertising it on the case.
Those are probably the better ones as noise reduction was a bit of an absurd novelty idea in the 90s...

It's gonna take some time, but I plan on diving into rebuilding AT PSUs as well, hopefully.
Also hoping to restore them to a good unit that can provide a full 250W of power.

I will also plan on doing the most ghetto ATX-AT conversion on a PSU in the future, going as far as rewiring the PS_ON green wire to the big AT switch that's on the case.

At the moment, I do have a converted AT case - this means I am using an ATX PSU (LC-B400ATX, also rebuilt, branded Torrent Computers.) in it. What I convertrd was the switch, using a similar styled switch to the AT one, but which is momentary - it's kinda like an hybrid between the AT power button and the ATX power button. Machine inside is a fully recapped LuckyTech P5MVP3, w/ K6-II+ 500MHz (actual 500 part, not downclocked.), GF 5200 (I think), and a 40Gb HDD if my memory serves me right.

This is the heaviest power supply I have, one I was lucky enough to get for free. Though I was initially a little disappointed that it isn't modular, it also means that there was no way for the prior owner to lose any of the cables. If you swung it by the cables it would be a potentially lethal weapon! https://www.newegg.com/hiper-type-m-hpu-4m730 … N82E16817128008

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-03-31, 17:38:

This is the heaviest power supply I have, one I was lucky enough to get for free. Though I was initially a little disappointed that it isn't modular, it also means that there was no way for the prior owner to lose any of the cables. If you swung it by the cables it would be a potentially lethal weapon! https://www.newegg.com/hiper-type-m-hpu-4m730 … N82E16817128008

Are those kg or hoobleegubbs or denkylorgs (freedom units)?

PcBytes wrote on 2022-03-31, 08:02:

It's gonna take some time, but I plan on diving into rebuilding AT PSUs as well, hopefully. Also hoping to restore them to a goo […]
Show full quote

It's gonna take some time, but I plan on diving into rebuilding AT PSUs as well, hopefully.
Also hoping to restore them to a good unit that can provide a full 250W of power.

I will also plan on doing the most ghetto ATX-AT conversion on a PSU in the future, going as far as rewiring the PS_ON green wire to the big AT switch that's on the case.

At the moment, I do have a converted AT case - this means I am using an ATX PSU (LC-B400ATX, also rebuilt, branded Torrent Computers.) in it. What I convertrd was the switch, using a similar styled switch to the AT one, but which is momentary - it's kinda like an hybrid between the AT power button and the ATX power button. Machine inside is a fully recapped LuckyTech P5MVP3, w/ K6-II+ 500MHz (actual 500 part, not downclocked.), GF 5200 (I think), and a 40Gb HDD if my memory serves me right.

OK, there are some items on the heap that by now, were officially in "hoarder limbo" meaning they don't work, emitted smoke before my very eyes or simply are broken.
But, so far, I couldn't quite get myself to recycling them.
Including at least one PSU.
Also, I would not recycle them but I considered it silly to put them on Ebay for parts - no one is going to fix that junk.
Well, I guess, that ship has sailed, has it?

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-03-31, 19:21:

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-03-31, 17:38:

This is the heaviest power supply I have, one I was lucky enough to get for free. Though I was initially a little disappointed that it isn't modular, it also means that there was no way for the prior owner to lose any of the cables. If you swung it by the cables it would be a potentially lethal weapon! https://www.newegg.com/hiper-type-m-hpu-4m730 … N82E16817128008

Are those kg or hoobleegubbs or denkylorgs (freedom units)?

In 1975 I was in the fifth grade, and our teacher told us that the US would be fully converted to metric by 1980. So much for predictions.