I have just come to peace with the fact that this hobby just isn't going to get any cheaper, and probably will price most people out eventually. Such is the cycle of life with anything gaming and retro. Especially with all that COVID bonus money people got a wee bit back. Tons of people want to get into older gaming now and that higher demand of course also brings in the profiteers who see everything as an investment opportunity or whatever.

IMO the best way to get a good deal these days is just to make friends with other collectors. I ended up getting a SB PRO 2 and a few other goodies off another local collector liquidating his stuff for fairly "cheap" (vs ebay). Had plenty of nice conversations too! You make a few friends, maybe get some deals or trades down the line. Always makes me happy 😀

I'd say it's only bad for people who lack both time and money, but want a specific item.
There will be the occasional "some old computer, don't know anything about that" offer for quite some time to come.

And yes, some collectors will liquidate their collection and not care much about making a profit, having outgrown a phase. That SB Pro 2.0 is already bloody rare and well into the three digits, I'd say.

I try to give other collectors really really good deals on spares of my collection. I'll even throw extra stuff in completely free too. I love seeing retro gear go to loving homes! 😀

On Ebay though, i just ......kind of assume most people are resellers tbh. So i price to match. Cheap enough that its not insultingly overpriced. But enough that if your gonna try and make money off me, I get my fair share off you. So far its worked out, i guess i feel kinda bad about it sometimes. Such is how it goes i suppose.

FioGermi wrote on 2022-04-12, 03:36:

I try to give other collectors really really good deals on things i sell. I'll even throw extra stuff in completely free too. I love seeing retro gear go to loving homes! 😀

On Ebay though, i just ......kind of assume most people are resellers tbh. So i price to match. Cheap enough that it doesn't sit forever, but priced enough that if your gonna make money off me. I get my fair share off you. So far its worked out, i guess i feel kinda bad about it sometimes. Such is how it goes i suppose.

For me, I have one item left I want and then I think I have enough retro parts to keep me busy for a number of years and more than enough parts to build several complete 775 systems, I know ill be keeping hold of the 775 stuff for quite a bit longer as it'll eventually become just like the Pentium II and III era gear is now. Might be nice to see a few of my 775 systems get sold on and cared for by other retro nerds, but for now 775 isnt quite old enough nor is it quite new enough its smack bang in the middle so still cheap and collectable.

Funnily enough I have made friends with quite a few sellers on eBay that looked like resellers but were just retro nerds like myself looking to clear out their collection .. likely to make room for more stuff 😁

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-04-12, 03:19:

I'd say it's only bad for people who lack both time and money, but want a specific item.
There will be the occasional "some old computer, don't know anything about that" offer for quite some time to come.

true. to enjoy the hobby without feeling like you have to spend a lot you need patience and also a willingness to overcome the 'must have component x' mindset. In practice a large number of much cheaper alternatives exist to most rare items that may not be quite so pure, era correct or 'good' but actually give you virtually the same experience when the PC is switched on

Really. You're gonna hide it in a steel box anyway... unless you're one with the particular perversion that you MUST. HAVE. absolutely everything authentic but somehow excuse having a decade out of place windowed case to look at it.

gerry wrote on 2022-04-12, 09:12:

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-04-12, 03:19:

I'd say it's only bad for people who lack both time and money, but want a specific item.
There will be the occasional "some old computer, don't know anything about that" offer for quite some time to come.

true. to enjoy the hobby without feeling like you have to spend a lot you need patience and also a willingness to overcome the 'must have component x' mindset. In practice a large number of much cheaper alternatives exist to most rare items that may not be quite so pure, era correct or 'good' but actually give you virtually the same experience when the PC is switched on

Like replacing spinning rust with Solid State, though its not the same experience really as its light years faster but I guess the point is really the same, its cheaper, more reliable and gives better results.

Old spinning rust is really one reset away from being dead spinning rust.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-13, 03:50:

Like replacing spinning rust with Solid State, though its not the same experience really as its light years faster but I guess the point is really the same, its cheaper, more reliable and gives better results.

Old spinning rust is really one reset away from being dead spinning rust.

Why are you so concerned about old hard drives dying? I assume you don't store any critical data on them, so if they fail just throw them away and replace them. And I don't agree with solid state being cheaper, I have amassed a sizable collection of old hard drives by scavenging them for free from discarded systems, and for the few of them that I paid money for it was even cheaper than buying a new CF card + adapter. I know there are people selling old used HDDs on eBay for absurd prices, but I don't think anyone is dumb enough to buy them at that price without knowing the amount of wear of the drives.

And reliability concerns regarding HDDs are overblown (unless we talk about MFM/RLL stuff or specific problematic models), almost none of my retro hard drives that weren't DOA to begin with have failed yet, and I do a thorough check every few months. If they have a low power on hours count they will last a long time with the light usage of a retro computer . Sure, they're consumable items in a way, but they're not special enough that I would feel bad about one of them dying.

The "must have component x" mindset plagued me for a pretty long time when i was still new to all this. I saw all the cool stuff LGR had and wanted some of it for myself. Almost spent stupid amounts of money on a GUS once too.

Sometimes you just got to learn to appreciate the little things and not be so focused on getting the big ticket items. Plus there are tons more cool budget friendly or lesser known cards out there to explore beyond the mainstream! Dive in and find something cool.

TheMobRules wrote on 2022-04-13, 04:31:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-13, 03:50:

Like replacing spinning rust with Solid State, though its not the same experience really as its light years faster but I guess the point is really the same, its cheaper, more reliable and gives better results.

Old spinning rust is really one reset away from being dead spinning rust.

Why are you so concerned about old hard drives dying? I assume you don't store any critical data on them, so if they fail just throw them away and replace them. And I don't agree with solid state being cheaper, I have amassed a sizable collection of old hard drives by scavenging them for free from discarded systems, and for the few of them that I paid money for it was even cheaper than buying a new CF card + adapter. I know there are people selling old used HDDs on eBay for absurd prices, but I don't think anyone is dumb enough to buy them at that price without knowing the amount of wear of the drives.

And reliability concerns regarding HDDs are overblown (unless we talk about MFM/RLL stuff or specific problematic models), almost none of my retro hard drives that weren't DOA to begin with have failed yet, and I do a thorough check every few months. If they have a low power on hours count they will last a long time with the light usage of a retro computer . Sure, they're consumable items in a way, but they're not special enough that I would feel bad about one of them dying.

Depends on what types of IDE drives we are discussing, or their age, I have a bunch of IDE drives 10gb and below that are not as replaceable as you say, in fact drives that small tend to be rather expensive to replace as they are highly sought after by collectors if they are in working condition. And from experience 90% of drives in that class and of that age tend to give up the ghost during POST, so no I dont think its overblown. Now if you are talking about dime a dozen 40gb+ IDE HDDs then sure they are easy to acquire. But again I dont use them unless its a special build or I want to have a period correct drive in it, SSDs/CF/SD etc are far cheaper to buy and 100% more reliable.

The reason I went for the big ticket items usually was compatibility , having a voodoo , sbpro2 and mpu401 / mt32 combo that just works is pretty nice. I can see why people think its stupid to spend money on that kind of stuff though , prices are pretty absurd now and you can make do with a basic rig that uses a sound blaster clone and some kind of geforce2 card.

I use a 40gig hard drive partitioned for dos as well , and it works fine , no bad sectors , if it works it works , I don't see any reason to replace it with a compact flash card yet.

Had the the chance to grab a GUS years after hearing LGR sing its praises and its mostly overrated , yes they sound nice but game support is pretty awful and they always give me problems in dos as they aren't fully controlled by jumpers. But hey I got it pretty cheap else I probably wouldn't have got one.

It is interesting though , the reason a lot of this stuff is valuable is due to influencers on youtube and the like. I used to have a stack of sound blaster 16s people threw out in hard rubbish , had like 5 or 6 of them and no one cared for them.
If it wasn't for LGR even more of this stuff would have went to the scrap. Just one guy on youtube and this stuff is now a goldmine.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-13, 05:42:

And from experience 90% of drives in that class and of that age tend to give up the ghost during POST

what an absolute load of BS

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:04:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-13, 05:42:

And from experience 90% of drives in that class and of that age tend to give up the ghost during POST

what an absolute load of BS

Or perhaps he should have sourced them from someplace else 😜
Such a high failure rate is really either that, or ESD, or some other form of gross improper handling. Or an overreaction or an overstatement 😜

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:04:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-13, 05:42:

And from experience 90% of drives in that class and of that age tend to give up the ghost during POST

what an absolute load of BS

Well they die on the shelf just as much I guess .. but really its only at post you realise your shit is dead, so I guess if you had a way to test them without powering them up you could claim otherwise .. but you dont.

So no its not BS, at post is when you know its dead, died, deceased, expired, ITS FUCKING DEAD MY LAD.

Or perhaps you were reading it some other way ?

Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:08:

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:04:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-13, 05:42:

And from experience 90% of drives in that class and of that age tend to give up the ghost during POST

what an absolute load of BS

Or perhaps he should have sourced them from someplace else 😜
Such a high failure rate is really either that, or ESD, or some other form of gross improper handling. Or an overreaction or an overstatement 😜

I get them the same way other collectors do, old HDDs have a much higher failure rate than new drives do .. pretty sure thats a given, and like other old as shit hardware its at POST/power on that it tends to just fucking die, this very forum is littered with examples of old hardware dying when powered up .. or are you just oblivious to that ?

I was reading it to mean that 90% of those class of drives fail the first time you spin them up

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:17:

Well they die on the shelf just as much I guess .. but really its only at post you realise your shit is dead, so I guess if you […]
Show full quote

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:04:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-13, 05:42:

And from experience 90% of drives in that class and of that age tend to give up the ghost during POST

what an absolute load of BS

Well they die on the shelf just as much I guess .. but really its only at post you realise your shit is dead, so I guess if you had a way to test them without powering them up you could claim otherwise .. but you dont.

So no its not BS, at post is when you know its dead, died, deceased, expired, ITS FUCKING DEAD MY LAD.

Or perhaps you were reading it some other way ?

You mean to say, they're a harddrive bereft of drive? Resting in peace? Basically an ex-harddrive then?

I was tempted to point out that reading of "if they die, they do it when there's an audience" but do I always need to be the standby nerd?

I agree, spinning drives are a PITA, authenticity be damned. Apart from the dependability issues, for me, it's mainly about the noise.
I recently tested a nice Cyrix 486DLC desktop with awesome MR bios, but that buzz saw in there, how tf did we cope?

But are they getting scarce?
Probably less due to age as too many people panicking about imaginary risks of leaving behind some old holiday picture in the trash and being literally too stupid to wipe.
Maybe I should take better care of my fireball 540AT and caviar 430s?

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:20:

I was reading it to mean that 90% of those class of drives fail the first time you spin them up

Haha, I read this as well 🤣
I was like "No way that 90% of the mechanical old harddrives die when trying them out for the first time after getting them" lmao!

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:20:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:08:

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:04:

what an absolute load of BS

Or perhaps he should have sourced them from someplace else 😜
Such a high failure rate is really either that, or ESD, or some other form of gross improper handling. Or an overreaction or an overstatement 😜

I get them the same way other collectors do, old HDDs have a much higher failure rate than new drives do .. pretty sure thats a given, and like other old as shit hardware its at POST/power on that it tends to just fucking die, this very forum is littered with examples of old hardware dying when powered up .. or are you just oblivious to that ?

I got (and get) most as part of a whole system (either free or bought). I've only occasionally bought old harddrives as distinct separate parts second hand.
Some drives I bought new, but those will typically be new drives meant for newer systems (usually main systems) and not for retro rigs as such.

As I mentioned above, we thought you meant to say that 90% of all the drives you got, died during 1st spinup. Not that IF a harddrive dies, it will then die during first spinup at/after POST 🤣.
You gotta admit, it would have been really bad if mechanical harddrives were really this bad 😜

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:42:

You mean to say, they're a harddrive bereft of drive? Resting in peace? Basically an ex-harddrive then? […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:17:

Well they die on the shelf just as much I guess .. but really its only at post you realise your shit is dead, so I guess if you […]
Show full quote

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-04-13, 13:04:

what an absolute load of BS

Well they die on the shelf just as much I guess .. but really its only at post you realise your shit is dead, so I guess if you had a way to test them without powering them up you could claim otherwise .. but you dont.

So no its not BS, at post is when you know its dead, died, deceased, expired, ITS FUCKING DEAD MY LAD.

Or perhaps you were reading it some other way ?

You mean to say, they're a harddrive bereft of drive? Resting in peace? Basically an ex-harddrive then?

I was tempted to point out that reading of "if they die, they do it when there's an audience" but do I always need to be the standby nerd?

I agree, spinning drives are a PITA, authenticity be damned. Apart from the dependability issues, for me, it's mainly about the noise.
I recently tested a nice Cyrix 486DLC desktop with awesome MR bios, but that buzz saw in there, how tf did we cope?

But are they getting scarce?
Probably less due to age as too many people panicking about imaginary risks of leaving behind some old holiday picture in the trash and being literally too stupid to wipe.
Maybe I should take better care of my fireball 540AT and caviar 430s?

Well, it's good that more modern solutions are available for those who want to use them.

I actually never coped well with loud harddrives. It was one of the main reasons why I delved into silencing PCs (the others being fan noise and to a lesser extend resonance noise and coil whine). And I don't mean the read/write noises drives like HDDs and FDDs make, I kinda like the coffee grinder noises. It's the constant whirring wining noise that's constantly there that I could never appreciate as a positive thing. I always hated it. Fluid bearing was a blessing for me 😂