VOGONS


First post, by Gahhhrrrlic

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I have been told that it is possible to get both lan and internet working on 3.11 even though it wasn't built with that in mind. I have set up the DOS network already and installed trumpet winsock on windows. Despite this however I'm neither able to get simply lan functionality nor can I get the internet working. In the former case, it's because I can't find my own network. In the latter case it's because I need to install some sort of packet driver to get the ethernet card working.

I'd be happy with either working or both but has anyone gone through this who can advise me on this? I'm trying to connect to either XP or win7 file sharing and for TCP/IP even google would be nice. Thank you.

https://hubpages.com/technology/How-to-Maximi … -Retro-Computer

Reply 1 of 21, by Caluser2000

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Yes you need to load the nic packet driver then winpkt shim before running windows to get Trumpet Winsock to work. You can use wfw3.x telnet and ftp clients with it. It's very well documented. Also there is the famous mTCP suite for Dos which also needs a packet driver and is also well documented. It has a ftp client/server to allow for file transfers as well as many other useful tools. Mike, mTCPs creator as well as a member here, has good documentation of mTCP and how to set up a packet driver on his site.

What make/model is you nic? What are the system specs?

For providing permanent shares wfw3.11 or win9x may well be the better route.Arachne Dos web browser can be used to google so can some older win3.1x browsers but it's not pretty.

Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2019-07-21, 08:12. Edited 5 times in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 2 of 21, by keropi

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I can also confirm that mTCP's FTPSERVER is all you need to make file transfers easily. You just need to get your NIC's DOS packet driver and load it on demand.

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Reply 3 of 21, by Gahhhrrrlic

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Anything that's well documented is a good thing. I feel a bit stupid if I'm missing this stuff but I did spend 6 hrs last night just doing research and trial and error trying to get it to work so I must have been barking up the wrong tree:

386DX-40 (@33MHz)
387 coprocessor
8MB RAM
SCSI 2GB HDD (IRQ 11)
VGA Wonder 1MB
ESS AudioDrive (IRQ 5)
CD-ROM on ESS header (IRQ 15)
Modem (IRQ 3, COM 2)
SMC 8013WC NIC (IRQ 10, 300, CC00)
Memory Map below 1MB has been meticulously hand-worked to prevent any memory conflicts and to maximize UMBs (I have about 520 KB conventional free and 7MB XMS)

I had difficulties finding drivers for my card but did find 1 zip file containing a million folders of stuff but I don't know if any of it is any good. I have a packet driver 8003PKDR.EXE file that I don't know how to install (it keeps complaining about IPX). I got lucky for the basic nic drivers because microsoft network for dos 3.0 automatically detected and had the right drivers. Right now File manager has the add network connection option under File but it can't detect my network and Trumpet won't work with TCP/IP until I figure out this packet driver issue.

https://hubpages.com/technology/How-to-Maximi … -Retro-Computer

Reply 4 of 21, by Caluser2000

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You should have more memory free if just using packet driver. Have a look here http://files.mpoli.fi/hardware/NET/SMC/

Guide wrt packet driver usage http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Networ … er_installation

You really don't need MS Dos networking loaded at all if using Trumpet WinSock. You'll need the tcp/ip drivers for MS Dos Networking that which will take up even more memory leaving only about 480k free conventional memory. It just adds extra overhead in Dos. But if you need to use it here's a guide http://www.windowsnetworking.com/j_helmig/win31.htm

What is the zip file you found? Post it as an attachment if you can. Usually network drivers folder name will give you an idea of the driver for example PKT, ODI, NDIS etc with sub-folders Dos, Win3, Win_nt, OS2 or similar sub folders.

EDIT:
Found this SMC driver archive https://web.archive.org/web/19970401134836/ht … s/ethernet/8xxx (Found at the vcfed forums)

Elite 16 Ultra series of Ethernet Adapters for 8003, 8013, 8013/A 8216
adf200.exe (8.0K) Elite ADF Configuration file for our MCA adapters
asd700.exe (1007.5K) Latest SuperDisk for Elite/Ultra adapters
dia401.exe (83.4K) Diagnose utility for Elite and Ultra Adapters
gez122.exe (41.8K) New EZSETUP For Elite EtherCard Plus/ Ultra in Dos Ver1.08
gpk115.exe (70.8K) Packet Drvr V11.5 for use with 8/16 Bit Elite/Ultra Adapter.
setjmp.exe (7.8K) Switch setting for most of the Elite Ethernet Line of Cards.

Of those files you probably want gez122.exe if you want to soft-config the card, gpk115.exe if you want the packet driver for DOS, and asd700.exe if you want the NDIS drivers.

PDF Manual for the card:

Filename
SMC EtherCard PLUS Elite 16 Series.pdf
File size
1.8 MiB
Downloads
29 downloads
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 5 of 21, by Gahhhrrrlic

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Thank you very much. That is a wealth of information. I have had PARTIAL success.

I was able to figure out to modify my autoexec to FIRST load the packet driver PKT8000.COM at interrupt vector 0x60. SECOND I loaded the WINPKT.COM driver at the same vector and that worked. Then I went into windows and ran trumpet winsock and it no longer spewed errors. Instead it did report the MAC address of the network card. However I am still stuck because I can't seem to access my home network from file manager. Maybe I don't know the syntax for the network name but it says it can't find whatever I type in. I also can't get TCP/IP working because I still don't know how to install the TCP/IP stack.

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Reply 6 of 21, by keropi

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I don't know if this will be the same but on WfW you can install the TCP/IP protocol like this: https://christianliebel.com/2016/06/connectin … orkgroups-3-11/
Basically it's manual installation, you tell windows to get the "unlisted" protocol from a disk and point it to the directory you have extracted the tcp/ip package

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Reply 7 of 21, by gdjacobs

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Gahhhrrrlic wrote:

However I am still stuck because I can't seem to access my home network from file manager. Maybe I don't know the syntax for the network name but it says it can't find whatever I type in.

WfW was the first Windows version to incorporate what was to become file and printer sharing. Try using something TCP/IP focused, like an FTP client.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 8 of 21, by Gahhhrrrlic

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Update:

I got TCP/IP working. Actually the DHCP program in mTCP helped me identify what my correct local IP was. Then my internet browsers just started to work, so that's done now. I believe the easiest way for somebody else to succeed would be:

1) Download the packet driver for your card (may be tough to find)
2) Use LH (packet driver file name.COM) 0x60 at the end of your autoexec.
3) Download winpkt.com
4) use LH WINPKT.COM 0x60 right after 2)
5) Install Trumpet winsock in windows
6) Run TCPMAN and enter setup - pick packet driver and enter all your network settings
7) Install mTCP and run the DHCP program to get a lease on a local IP address and update trumpet accordingly
8) With trumpet running in the background, internet should work at this point

Now regarding LAN, that still doesn't work yet and I couldn't get mTCP to make it work yet either. I have lanmanager basic installed already and the network option is in File Manager so I really do believe there's nothing else to do on the installation side. However I am not entering the correct syntax for the network name and I can't see the network on my modern PC. First, does this work on xp and 7 machines or will it only file share with 9x ? Second, how do I know the correct syntax to enter for the network name of the modern pc? I think this is the issue.

https://hubpages.com/technology/How-to-Maximi … -Retro-Computer

Reply 9 of 21, by chinny22

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Windows networking isn't that reliable, best syntax to use is the ip address.
Early windows doesn't allow you to browse the network so you need to map a drive to \\192.168.0.1\Shared (amusing that is the IP address of the other PC and Shared is the folder shared out.
This will work Win9x without any specific problems, NT based OS's (so XP/ and above in your case gets a bit confused with login names so if you use the same login details across all PC's it works ok.
Vista and above also need the security dropped
https://ttcshelbyville.wordpress.com/2018/02/ … dows-7-8-or-10/

It's a bit of work to set up but once up and running its easy and convenient way of moving files. I have WFW though to Win7 all talking happily*

* Happily does mean temperamental though, like some days 1 PC may not see the other, but the other PC will happily see the first so can still get the job done

or mTCP includes ftp
Benefit of this is its the fastest/most efficient way to transfer files and will work on any OS. It's also the most reliable
Negative is it requires a "ftp server" this is easy to setup, depending on which OS you want the server to live on will depend which server software you want

Reply 10 of 21, by Gahhhrrrlic

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chinny22 wrote:
Windows networking isn't that reliable, best syntax to use is the ip address. Early windows doesn't allow you to browse the netw […]
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Windows networking isn't that reliable, best syntax to use is the ip address.
Early windows doesn't allow you to browse the network so you need to map a drive to \\192.168.0.1\Shared (amusing that is the IP address of the other PC and Shared is the folder shared out.
This will work Win9x without any specific problems, NT based OS's (so XP/ and above in your case gets a bit confused with login names so if you use the same login details across all PC's it works ok.
Vista and above also need the security dropped
https://ttcshelbyville.wordpress.com/2018/02/ … dows-7-8-or-10/

It's a bit of work to set up but once up and running its easy and convenient way of moving files. I have WFW though to Win7 all talking happily*

* Happily does mean temperamental though, like some days 1 PC may not see the other, but the other PC will happily see the first so can still get the job done

or mTCP includes ftp
Benefit of this is its the fastest/most efficient way to transfer files and will work on any OS. It's also the most reliable
Negative is it requires a "ftp server" this is easy to setup, depending on which OS you want the server to live on will depend which server software you want

The irony is I was using 3.11 WFW before and had to drop it because it wasn't allowing me to install my encyclopedia software. Then I found out it was because of my CD-ROM driver but too late because I already had everything working on 3.1 by then. I'll see if I can use the IP address instead.

https://hubpages.com/technology/How-to-Maximi … -Retro-Computer

Reply 11 of 21, by ahtoh

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I use MTCP to transfer files to my 486 PC. I simply run dhcp.exe, then run ftpsrv.exe and then simply open explorer on my win10 machine and copy the files over to ftp://whatever IP my old machine gets assigned.
The only drawback for me is it does not preserve the modified dates of the files copied.
Does anyone know how to preserve the files dates with mtcp ftp?

Reply 14 of 21, by ahtoh

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mbbrutman wrote:

Preserving the timestamp requires a server feature called MFMT - I'll look into adding it.

Thanks!
Please also add some error handling to the ftp server when the disk is out of space.

Reply 15 of 21, by mbbrutman

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That's kind of a blanket request - what did you specifically run into?

FTP doesn't transmit the size of the file up front, so the FTP server can't know if a specific upload is going to run out of disk space. It should handle running out of disk space correctly though - terminating the transfer with an error message. Did you experience something different?

(I can't add features or fix bugs if nobody tells me about them ..)

Reply 17 of 21, by mbbrutman

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Then please get a screenshot when it happens.

If you are receiving a file and you can't open the file because the filename is bad or if you can't complete a write to the file due to disk error, out of space, etc. you will get a "550 Filesystem" type error. It has been like this for years.

The current version of HTGet is broken - it will silently fail if it can't complete a disk write. But the FTP server does not have this problem.

Reply 18 of 21, by dave343

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Gahhhrrrlic wrote on 2019-07-23, 00:05:
Update: […]
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Update:

I got TCP/IP working. Actually the DHCP program in mTCP helped me identify what my correct local IP was. Then my internet browsers just started to work, so that's done now. I believe the easiest way for somebody else to succeed would be:

1) Download the packet driver for your card (may be tough to find)
2) Use LH (packet driver file name.COM) 0x60 at the end of your autoexec.
3) Download winpkt.com
4) use LH WINPKT.COM 0x60 right after 2)
5) Install Trumpet winsock in windows
6) Run TCPMAN and enter setup - pick packet driver and enter all your network settings
7) Install mTCP and run the DHCP program to get a lease on a local IP address and update trumpet accordingly
😎 With trumpet running in the background, internet should work at this point

Digging up this thread a few years too late, but wondering if someone can help me out with the same issue.

Using the mTCPIP tools I was able to get networking going on my 386 DX40 machine running DOS 5. 0. I used the SMC 8000 packet driver for my 8416 card, and Mike's FTP utility has been a godsend to get files easily transfer over.
My next project was installing Win 3.1 (not 3.11) to play around with Netscape 1.0 running, and so I downloaded Winsock 1.0 and finding this thread followed the quoted post.

DOS boots up with a successful DHCP, and then I run Windows. Once in Windows I ran the TCPman and did the TCPman setup adding in my IP info, DNS, etc... (I have reserved an IP for the 386 in my Router). The first issue I has was when TCPman was launched I got the TCP and WINPKT not found. This was fixed by adding in the WINPKT.com 0X60 to Autoexec.bat as now TCPman runs without error, gives the MAC addr of the nic card, and displays the IP info. However, when I run Netscape 1.0 and try to access any webpage that is 30 years old, such as the first website, it can't find it. I'm basically trying to test that Netscape works at all by going to extremely old simplistic websites that should be ok. But seems Netscape keeps saying it can't find it.

I keep TCPman running in the background when I'm trying to use Netscape.

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated, feel like I'm almost there.

Reply 19 of 21, by mbbrutman

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Some things to try:

  • Can you ping using a human readable name, such as vogons.org? If so, then DNS is working. If not, try using a direct IP address and deal with DNS later.
  • Are you going to a site that still supports HTTP? Anything that redirects to HTTPS is going to fail with a browser that old.
  • Try a site on a dedicated host that does not share hosting resources. (I'm not sure if that version of Netscape knew how to specify a virtual host in the headers.)