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Reply 20 of 37, by maxtherabbit

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15kHz is a GO. Please note the device does have a minimum pixel clock, so 2x oversampling is required for 320x240 sources. 240p is working great and 480i seems to work to a degree as well. 240p is properly treated as progressive too, and it does not attempt to deinterlace it (confirmed with 240p test suite on Playstation 1)

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PS before anyone asks about the aspect ratio: I simply left the extron on its default setting to fill the frame of its 1080p output. It's trivial to switch it to output a pillarboxed 4:3 image in a 1080p frame if desired.

Reply 21 of 37, by darry

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-05-05, 17:37:

15kHz is a GO. Please note the device does have a minimum pixel clock, so 2x oversampling is required for 320x240 sources. 240p is working great and 480i seems to work to a degree as well. 240p is properly treated as progressive too, and it does not attempt to deinterlace it (confirmed with 240p test suite on Playstation 1)

20220505_132919.jpg

PS before anyone asks about the aspect ratio: I simply left the extron on its default setting to fill the frame of its 1080p output. It's trivial to switch it to output a pillarboxed 4:3 image in a 1080p frame if desired.

Wow, and thanks again for testing! That Extron unit is way more flexible than its docs let on .

Reply 22 of 37, by darry

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-05-05, 12:22:

It's "bulky" because it's a full featured scaler not just a dumb digitizer. YMMV with the "compact" ones but anything without a scaling engine will choke.

Some of the cheaper dumb digitizers might be able to handle those resolutions on input (still unlikely as they are unlikely to be able to "autodetect" such uncommon resolutions and these devices usually offer no options to manual configure input timings), but even in that case, output would still be at 87Hz and interlaced, which your (talking to OP) monitor would not be able to handle.

Reply 23 of 37, by pentiumspeed

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Interlaced was introduced with 8514/A 1024x 768 video resolution when 8514 monitor came out. 4x.Hz interlaced and I immediately can't stand it! I repaired the 8514 monitor years ago, that how I know.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 24 of 37, by darry

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2022-05-06, 23:39:

Interlaced was introduced with 8514/A 1024x 768 video resolution when 8514 monitor came out. 4x.Hz interlaced and I immediately can't stand it! I repaired the 8514 monitor years ago, that how I know.

Cheers,

I hated it too in 1992 on a cheap TTX monitor and Trident TVGA8900B (not 100% of the rev, might have been a C ). In 1987, perception might have been more positive .

Reply 25 of 37, by maxtherabbit

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Done a bit more testing with the RGB HDMI 300 regarding RGBS vs RGBHV. If anyone caught my multiple edits on my previous post, it was because the device has somewhat inconsistent behaviour regarding composite sync (clean, buffered 5V TTL composite sync - NOT composite video-as-sync, which does not work at all)

It can handle RGBS to a degree, but it is far more picky about what it will accept. Whether this is related to timing, serrations, or polarity I don't know because I didn't analyse the sources on my scope. I will simply report the findings:

15kHz c-sync from sega genesis: NO
15kHz c-sync from Extron RGB 192V interface: NO
15kHz c-sync from ISL59885 sync separator: YES

In all cases 15kHz RGBHV worked as intended.

Reply 26 of 37, by feipoa

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If anyone else has one of these Extron or similar scaling units and also posses graphics cards which output interlaced mode at 1024x768 or 1280x1024 at 43 Hz, I'd be interested to see your results on an LCD. If I recall, the Microlabs ET4000W32i (Ultimate TrueColor XL) and the Cirrus Logic GD-5428 are suitable test candidates. I

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Reply 27 of 37, by darry

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feipoa wrote on 2022-05-16, 02:18:

If anyone else has one of these Extron or similar scaling units and also posses graphics cards which output interlaced mode at 1024x768 or 1280x1024 at 43 Hz, I'd be interested to see your results on an LCD. If I recall, the Microlabs ET4000W32i (Ultimate TrueColor XL) and the Cirrus Logic GD-5428 are suitable test candidates. I

Just to clarify, are you looking for corroboration of maxtherabbit's results from a second person or is there something else you would like to have tested ?

Reply 28 of 37, by feipoa

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darry, unless I missed or misunderstood something presented already, I haven't seen any test results for the resolutions of interest. Many people have a GD-542x VLB graphics card, so perhaps some results will turn up. Ideally, I'm hoping to see a Windows 9x desktop display 1024x768x16 on the 5428, some mpeg playback working, and other flowing graphics. I remember the Micro-Labs card I referenced also had some interlaced modes, which I think were a 1280x1024x8 w/2MB.

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Reply 29 of 37, by darry

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feipoa wrote on 2022-05-16, 02:36:

darry, unless I missed or misunderstood something presented already, I haven't seen any test results for the resolutions of interest. Many people have a GD-542x VLB graphics card, so perhaps some results will turn up. Ideally, I'm hoping to see a Windows 9x desktop display 1024x768x16 on the 5428, some mpeg playback working, and other flowing graphics. I remember the Micro-Labs card I referenced also had some interlaced modes, which I think were a 1280x1024x8 w/2MB.

feipoa, unless I myself misunderstood, this earlier post by maxtherabbit mentions that he tested said resolutions at 87Hz .

Re: VGA adapter to convert a graphics card interlaced mode to non-interlaced mode on LCD?

Reply 30 of 37, by maxtherabbit

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feipoa wrote on 2022-05-16, 02:18:

If anyone else has one of these Extron or similar scaling units and also posses graphics cards which output interlaced mode at 1024x768 or 1280x1024 at 43 Hz, I'd be interested to see your results on an LCD. If I recall, the Microlabs ET4000W32i (Ultimate TrueColor XL) and the Cirrus Logic GD-5428 are suitable test candidates. I

I tested both of these exact resolutions earlier in the thread. I just dont have the ability to show you anything more than the simple test pattern

Reply 31 of 37, by feipoa

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darry wrote on 2022-05-16, 03:05:
feipoa wrote on 2022-05-16, 02:36:

darry, unless I missed or misunderstood something presented already, I haven't seen any test results for the resolutions of interest. Many people have a GD-542x VLB graphics card, so perhaps some results will turn up. Ideally, I'm hoping to see a Windows 9x desktop display 1024x768x16 on the 5428, some mpeg playback working, and other flowing graphics. I remember the Micro-Labs card I referenced also had some interlaced modes, which I think were a 1280x1024x8 w/2MB.

feipoa, unless I myself misunderstood, this earlier post by maxtherabbit mentions that he tested said resolutions at 87Hz .

Re: VGA adapter to convert a graphics card interlaced mode to non-interlaced mode on LCD?

I saw static images with 16 colours only. I'm hoping someone with a graphics card that does interlaced mode at 1024x768x16-bit (64K colour) and 43.5 Hz can show this mode being being displayed on a standard LCD at 1024x768x16-bit colour at 60 Hz. An image like a Windows desktop showing moving graphics, mpeg video working, etc. without any substantial delay or distortion. Then repeat for 1280x1024. What maxtherabbit showed earlier is indeed encouraging, but not enough for me to open my wallet.

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Reply 32 of 37, by darry

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feipoa wrote on 2022-05-16, 03:42:
darry wrote on 2022-05-16, 03:05:
feipoa wrote on 2022-05-16, 02:36:

darry, unless I missed or misunderstood something presented already, I haven't seen any test results for the resolutions of interest. Many people have a GD-542x VLB graphics card, so perhaps some results will turn up. Ideally, I'm hoping to see a Windows 9x desktop display 1024x768x16 on the 5428, some mpeg playback working, and other flowing graphics. I remember the Micro-Labs card I referenced also had some interlaced modes, which I think were a 1280x1024x8 w/2MB.

feipoa, unless I myself misunderstood, this earlier post by maxtherabbit mentions that he tested said resolutions at 87Hz .

Re: VGA adapter to convert a graphics card interlaced mode to non-interlaced mode on LCD?

I saw static images with 16 colours only. I'm hoping someone with a graphics card that does interlaced mode at 1024x768x16-bit (64K colour) and 43.5 Hz can show this mode being being displayed on a standard LCD at 1024x768x16-bit colour at 60 Hz. An image like a Windows desktop showing moving graphics, mpeg video working, etc. without any substantial delay or distortion. Then repeat for 1280x1024. What maxtherabbit showed earlier is indeed encouraging, but not enough for me to open my wallet.

Thank you for clarifying. While I do also have an Extron unit, I am not sure if any video card I own can actually be coaxed to output one of those modes. Additionally, since I do not own a CRT SVGA display, I would not be able confirm beforehand if a card is actually outputting actual 87Hz interlaced video, even if I do manage to convince PowerStrip to force a video card into what seems to be the correct mode .

Reply 33 of 37, by maxtherabbit

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I wish you luck in finding someone who can provide a more detailed degree of testing, but frankly I doubt it. These extron scalers can routinely be found on ebay for under $50 if you decide to take a chance. They are a good tool in the toolbox in any case

Reply 34 of 37, by feipoa

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I am not in any rush. If someone chimes in within the next 10 years who shows a working example of the test criteria, I would be grateful.

I live in Canada; if you are able to find one of these shipped to Canada for under $50, please relay the source. A $49.95 part on USA eBay routinely ends up costing over $100 USD after shipping and duties.

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Reply 35 of 37, by darry

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I am in Canada (greater Montreal area) and got my Extron unit with a PSU for US $47.09 ( CAN $68.70), including shipping and duties, in May of 2020 . if a unit doesn't come with a power supply, testing it is made more complicated by the need for a PSU with a 2 pin phoenix connector (a.k.a. 2-pole, 3.5 mm captive screw connector) which most sellers probably do not have on hand, so a unit without a bundled PSU might legitimately be advertised as untested. If the PSU is not included, you will need to source a PSU or adapter for that phoenix connector.