You keep talking about brands. "shit" companies such as ECS and PCChips have made some great quality boards over the years, desp […]
Radical Vision wrote on 2022-05-14, 19:57:
Interesting.. Some times dog brand such as EliteGroup, ASSrock, PcChips, QDI, Acorp ect just tend to die way less, and most of t […]
Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-05-14, 17:21:
At least I respect the opinion of others if they enjoyed it and telling this to them on this thread is a very futile attempt.
BTW, I have a noname S3 Trio3D/2X 8MB PCI card that has very good image quality (aside from the brightness bug which can be easily dealt with) and it can handle PCI bus clocks that are out of spec unlike my Compaq S3 ViRGE/GX (which suffers from occasional palette corruption if the PCI bus clock is above 33 MHz). Currently using it on my Socket 7 computer along with a single Voodoo2 12MB card from InnoVision.
Interesting.. Some times dog brand such as EliteGroup, ASSrock, PcChips, QDI, Acorp ect just tend to die way less, and most of the time they just work, meanwhile good brands such as ABIT, ASUS (dont cosider ASUS premium, but they usually use expensive Rubycon caps) . But normally premium brands work better from what i saw. I think is not good to use overall parts that need to be on less clock speed (for example PCI bus, sometimes from OC the bus rises, better to have a way of not rising the bus in the first place), not on more, and you may end up with some broken parts, usually HDD may get affected and other problems. Some cheaper parts dont have even CPU protection, that does not mean, when an quality board hard shut down to prevent damage, the cheap one wont care, and then ur system my fry, or die from overvolting for example..
HanSolo wrote on 2022-05-14, 17:32:
I still don't get how you define 'high quality'. What are your objective criteria?
If you have Diamond cards compare them, to no name cards, just by putting them next to eatch other, you will see the Diamond card is better build.
Even the parts on the quality brand and PCB look and even feel better when you touch it with hand..
There was also in the past from the "good" brands as ppl claim they are fine, like PChips that used fake cache modules on their 386/ 486 boards. Ypu see the board have cache on it, BUT there are no traces there LMAO.. Brands such as AOpen, Gigabyte (depends on the model) , ASUS (they use most of the time the best brand Rubycon) use high quality caps, specially most AOpen and ASUS boards use mostly Rubycon caps, AOpen uses most of the time mix between ruby and crap ones, other times only Rubycon. Gigabyte boards even in Slot 1 (the more high end only) have DUAL BIOS and better caps and even CPU overvoltage protection.. Wonder why ATi and MatroX cards are one of the very best to par with 3Dfx Voodoo I and II, simple as their cards are of very high build quality and the chipset as well provide better 2D quality, but the components on the PCB will help even further for the image quality.
For you and others that claim about quality and stuff.. Take for example 3.5 inch Floppy drives, normally brands aside from TEAC and panasonic are garbage, SONY also have fine drives, but rest brands are just bad and dont read anyhing.
So you and the rest that claim, there is no difference.. The Hercules Terminator S3 card, is clear it have better PCB, better caps that last way longer, and does not show crap image quality.. While the NOname S3 is clear the PCB is cheap and nasty, and there are caps that are dry AF, and normally on so old cards these electrolytic caps are very dead, and will produce very bad image quality. It is clear they did even cheap out on memory size, you need to find memory chips now, while on the more premium card with the way more premium PCB that is not the case..
I bet every single component aside from the main chipset, is WAY more cheaper on the UNDERdog "branded" S3 card, compared to the Hercules Terminator.
Also there appears to be feature connectors on both cards, but the Terminator card have x2 more connectors on it and an jumper to set something...
The Gigabyte have superior quality to this garbage Gainward board. Allbig caps are Sanyo quality caps, no need to mention the Dual BIOS that the other board and many lacks, CPU overvoltage protection, speaker and 4 slots of memory supporting max of 1GB SDram total, compared to 700MB on the green board. The Gigabyte have also way more capacitors, more mosfets (keep in mind this board is mostly for Pentium II, while the gainward supports up to 700MHz vs like 450MHz means Gigabyte did overbuild their board)..
Brawndo wrote on 2022-05-14, 17:45:
I could be wrong, but it's possible the BIOS wouldn't support ISA even if you did solder a connector on, in which case you'd need a modified BIOS for it to work.
It is still an option prob, sadly they did not bother to solder an ISA slot..
You keep talking about brands. "shit" companies such as ECS and PCChips have made some great quality boards over the years, despite the fact that they generally make garbage. The ECS KV2 Extreme is one such board, and another is the K7VTA3 (certain revisions at least). PCChips makes the M519? or something, a pretty speedy and fairly reliable socket 3 motherboard - despite some boards using fake L2 cache.
On the other hand Asus, a company lots of collectors and enthusiasts keep parsing, made and sold as many poor quality boards as good quality ones. Am I to take it a brand is considered good if most of their products are better then average? Well then we're in trouble.. By that logic Asus is a "meh" brand - at least when it comes to motherboards. When it comes to video cards, they're a disaster. Dead ROG Strix RX Vega 64. Dead HD 280x. 3x Dead Geforce 4 Ti 4600s. Dead DirectCU II TOP GTX 680. Dead 8800GTX. All these cards were working when I got them. The Vega64, 680 and 280x were bought when they were new. The vega lasted 11 months. Then RMA. The replacement card died after a little over a year. No overclocking - very well ventilated case (cooler master HAF XB). The 280x started to show artifacts. Had to replace the BIOS with an updated one that dropped the clocks. It lasted 4 years in a living room PC that was used for movies and netflix 99% of the time. The 680 lasted the warranty period then died - blown mosfet - took traces with it. And so on. The P5B (ooooh I'm gonna get so much flack for this) is a dumpster fire from start to finish. 5 or 6 revisions, all quite different. Some can't feed faster video cards like a Voodoo 3. Others can't run the more power hungry CPUs (Early cyrix, fast K6-3's, etc) and compared to it's Acorp counterpart with the same chipset, they keep dying. I have 5 P5B boards, only one works and I'm afraid to use it in a build. All their socket 7 era boards are rubbish. The P55T2P4 is a mediocre board - it's extremely picky about SDRAM modules (runs OK with most SIMMs tho), it can't deliver enough power to the PCI slots for a Voodoo 3 3000 PCI and is unstable with a PCI Banshee... VRMs get phenomenally hot even with a 166mHz pentium 1 MMX... and I have 3 dead ones in a box. Found quite a few of these, built systems with them, then traded them off. This model was pretty common in my neck of the woods and I found quite a few of them - most in working order. Asus socket A era stuff is complete trash. The only board that stands out is the A7V8X-X but some of these loose a memory channel and are affected by capacitor plague. The P4P800-X/Deluxe/VM series has issues writing or reading from EEPROM using the stock winbond chips they come with and sometimes corrupt BIOS. Replacing the stock EEPROM with Amtel chips I got on ebay fixed my boards as they started dying one by one. They do make exceptional boards as well, but only later generations.
Now the good - the P5K-WS is amazing, and so is the P6T Deluxe. Most of their mid-high end boards from that generation on are very good, but the lower end stuff is horrendous and overpriced. The Asus Crosshair series are some of the most feature ritch boards I've ever used. Their gaming laptops are also very good and rather well priced - even the cheaper ones are at least decent - despite inadequate cooling. Hell, my old TUG Gaming FA506IV frequently got to 95C during gaming, and despite that it's still around - my kid is using it now - and I roasted that sucker for over 2 years. The battery on it is incredible as well. 2.5 years of usage and battery health is 80%. I also had a couple of G751 laptops a few years ago - a G751JT and a G751JY - and I loved those machines. My current daily driver is a G713QY and I love it. I tried Lenovo, MSI and Acer laptops but something's always missing. For lenovo it's performance and driver support. I bought a 15" model (can't remember model number) with a GTX 1060 and an I5 CPU and although I was impressed with the cooling and build quality, performance and driver support was a joke. The 1060 performed like a 1050ti... MSI's laptops feel cheap - at least the one I had witch was a mid-high end model with a GTX 1070 and a 17" screen. Cheap feeling plastic, horrible trackpad with integrated buttons, bendy keyboard... performance was great, and so was cooling. The screen wasn't great either. Some TN panel that looked really washed out compared to other laptops and some desktop monitors. Acer's Preadator line I did like a lot, but they don't seem to include large capacity batteries in their gaming laptops, so after only a few months I traded my predator 17 for... an Asus TUF with similar specs. Acer only provided a 50wh battery witch was good for 3-4 hours of work. The little TUF gaming came with a 90wh battery witch lasted for over 7 hours of work. Hell my current ROG G713QY has 7 to 9 hours of battery life - tough to find a 17" laptop with a better battery or nicer build.
Abit is generally considered a great brand - and is in fact one of my favorites. Their motherboards are some of the most feature ritch and capable of their time - but they used rubbish components. Cheap caps and no-name VRMs and FETs on some models you can't even find equivalents for.
No idea what you have against asrock - they make some of the most robust motherboards of any manufacturer - and that spans across many platforms and generations. All the asrock boards in my collection work flawlessly. Build quality and layout is better then even on their budget models like the K7S41GX. Asrock Z68 and Z77 boards are amazing. Asus level features, incredible reliability and low price. I have a H55 Asrock mATX motherboard that I got like 4 or 5 years ago witch I beat the SHIT out of... i5 750 overclocked to 4.1GHz witch crazy voltage.... I used 1833 and 2133Mhz ddr3 in the thing.... i7 860 overclocked to 4.316Ghz - an all on a puny budget Asrock H55M witch is still going! My mon is using it, together with said i7 860 (stock clocks this time), 8Gb of 2133MHz DDR3 running at 1600MHz and a GTX 460. Had some great fun with my Z77 Extreme 3 back in the day. I remember pushing a 2500k to 4.4Ghz on that board...
Biostar is another brand that makes very good quality mainboards. The MB8433UUD-A is already legendary. They have some amazing socket 7 (8500TUD-A), socket A and AM3 motherboards as well. Sure, their current models look cheap and extremely chinese - "racing"? Really? Are they marketing them to 10 year olds? Some of the best Biostar motherboards I've ever used are the A780L3, TA790GX and a X370GTN. The A780L3 was used as a test board for many years, intensively while I still had my shop open. It still works great. It's on a shelf with a Phenom II X3 installed in the socket.
MSI build pretty dodgy boards back in the day. Their early 90's stuff is pretty good. In fact one of my favorite socket 3 motherboards is the MSI MS-4144 - I have two of these - one purchased from a recycling center, the other came in a complete build with a POD83 - they both work flawlessly. Hell, the one from the recycling center was sitting outside in dirt and rain in a pile of other boards for god knows how long. I also liked their Z77 boards - used to own a z77a-g45 back in the day and I was pretty happy with it. My favorite MSI board has to be the p35 platinum - boy was this baby overbuilt. I had loads of fun overclocking my Q6600 then my Q9550. But their socket a to early LGA775 boards are horrendous. Poor features on most, crappy design, crappy components.
Gigabyte is... OK? For the most part? Don't have much to say about their motherboards - I'd characterize them as unremarkable. I've had good experience with them from a reliability point of view, and they always seem to be well priced, but they are not exciting. My oldest Gigabyte board is a (no surprise here) socket 3 GA486AM/S. Good little board - fast, compatible, stable, hell, even the soldered DALLAS RTC chip it came with is still holding a charge believe it or not! I'm a fan of their newer boards - they seem very well built and have great layout and features. Great pricing too. Right now my media center PC is using a Gigabyte B550M Aorus Elite and man do I like this thing. Built like a tank, It took my 5700G to 4.7GHz without complaints or complications, it could even drive the iGPU easily to 2.4Ghz. I did have some minor issues with a GA-X79-UD5 back in the day - it liked to corrupt cmos settings for some reason. If I left my PC off for more then 48 hours it would often corrupt cmos and I had to go into bios and load the OC profile I made. My brother in law had similar CMOS related issues with a GA-Z77X-UD5H.
Gainward and Palit... you were trashing gainward back there but I have a sizeable collection of Gainward / Palit / PC Partner boards and they all work flawlessly. Palit cards in particular are incredibly well built although their 2000's stuff looks a bit dodgy - AND Palit is an OEM for other brands as well. If I'm not mistaking Galaxy's Hall of Fame GTX 980 was in fact manufactured by palit. I have palit video cards from the '80's - I think my oldest palit card is a WDC Paradise with 256k of ram. I also have an ET4000AX made by them, as well as a couple of Geforce 3 Ti200, several FX series cards and so on - all working. Hell, I have some cheap Geforce 2 MX palit cards that have been thrown around my shop, used for testing when AGP was still relevant, overclocked for poops and giggles, and they still work. As for Gainward I have a Voodoo 2 card made by them and a Voodoo 4.
My point is most manufacturers have good and bad products, calling a brand good or bad is irrelevant. But what do I know, there's people on this forum who swear by the P5B and here I am sitting on four dead P5B's.