Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-22, 21:55:

- Walking Simulators / Interactive Stories. You're a failed writer, get out of my hobby.

IT'S ABOUT TIME WE GOT TO THE EVENTUAL GENRE GATEKEEPING PART OF THE THREAD!!!

leileilol wrote on 2022-06-22, 22:31:

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-22, 21:55:

- Walking Simulators / Interactive Stories. You're a failed writer, get out of my hobby.

IT'S ABOUT TIME WE GOT TO THE EVENTUAL GENRE GATEKEEPING PART OF THE THREAD!!!

Sometimes the truth hurts. Don't bring your failed career into an industry that doesn't need it. Trying to hide that your just an author and not interested in actual gameplay, while you get the gaming press, desperate to be accepted as a real media group, to grovel for you. It's disgusting.

Infocom has entered the chat

Plasma wrote on 2022-06-23, 00:03:

Infocom has entered the chat

Infocom games were a product of the times. A product of technical capabilities and sleight of hand. I always say the great thing about infocom games was the illusion that anything was possible. The solution could be anything you could think of. Mostly they were like JRPGS a product of their hardware limitations. Infocom games died off commercially as soon as computers became more capable, for better or worse...and they still have more gameplay than Gone Home, or The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, or Firewatch, etc...

blizard games buh dah bing! smurfs, trolls and massive downloads to play free until ingame omg

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-23, 06:09:

Plasma wrote on 2022-06-23, 00:03:

Infocom has entered the chat

Infocom games were a product of the times. A product of technical capabilities and sleight of hand. I always say the great thing about infocom games was the illusion that anything was possible. The solution could be anything you could think of. Mostly they were like JRPGS a product of their hardware limitations. Infocom games died off commercially as soon as computers became more capable, for better or worse...and they still have more gameplay than Gone Home, or The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, or Firewatch, etc...

I see where you are coming from but the fact that you did not enjoy them does not mean they were bad-wrong-fun. I thoroughly enjoyed Gone Home, Vanishing of Ethan Carter and Firewatch. Sometimes I just want to be entertained by a semi-interactive story, and I really don't need someone to tell me that it's wrong.

Oh we're hating on walking sims now?

Let me get my retirement home bingo sheet out and cross that one out.

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-23, 06:09:

Plasma wrote on 2022-06-23, 00:03:

Infocom has entered the chat

Infocom games were a product of the times. A product of technical capabilities and sleight of hand. I always say the great thing about infocom games was the illusion that anything was possible. The solution could be anything you could think of. Mostly they were like JRPGS a product of their hardware limitations. Infocom games died off commercially as soon as computers became more capable, for better or worse...and they still have more gameplay than Gone Home, or The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, or Firewatch, etc...

That's not entirely true. Infocom went bankrupt and had to be bought by Activision when their database software Cornerstone, in which they poured all their money into, totally bombed, effectively taking the entire company down. I'm not really sure I see your point either. If you accept Infocom's products as games, then why not narrative-driven games as well?

Garrett W wrote on 2022-06-23, 13:31:

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-23, 06:09:

Plasma wrote on 2022-06-23, 00:03:

Infocom has entered the chat

Infocom games were a product of the times. A product of technical capabilities and sleight of hand. I always say the great thing about infocom games was the illusion that anything was possible. The solution could be anything you could think of. Mostly they were like JRPGS a product of their hardware limitations. Infocom games died off commercially as soon as computers became more capable, for better or worse...and they still have more gameplay than Gone Home, or The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, or Firewatch, etc...

That's not entirely true. Infocom went bankrupt and had to be bought by Activision when their database software Cornerstone, in which they poured all their money into, totally bombed, effectively taking the entire company down. I'm not really sure I see your point either. If you accept Infocom's products as games, then why not narrative-driven games as well?

I just don't think moving through an environment counts as gameplay. The Infocom games had interaction and gameplay elements beyond navigation and key discovery. A game has to be more challenging than, "Do you have x amount of time to watch this play out in front of you?". A choose your own adventure book actually provides more meaningful user interaction than any of those games I mentioned.

If a watch a movie and it wont play unless I'm holding a button down on the remote control does that make it a game? Interactive?

appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-23, 06:20:

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-23, 06:09:

Plasma wrote on 2022-06-23, 00:03:

Infocom has entered the chat

Infocom games were a product of the times. A product of technical capabilities and sleight of hand. I always say the great thing about infocom games was the illusion that anything was possible. The solution could be anything you could think of. Mostly they were like JRPGS a product of their hardware limitations. Infocom games died off commercially as soon as computers became more capable, for better or worse...and they still have more gameplay than Gone Home, or The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, or Firewatch, etc...

I see where you are coming from but the fact that you did not enjoy them does not mean they were bad-wrong-fun. I thoroughly enjoyed Gone Home, Vanishing of Ethan Carter and Firewatch. Sometimes I just want to be entertained by a semi-interactive story, and I really don't need someone to tell me that it's wrong.

I loved Vanishing of Ethan Carter and Firewatch too I had actually forgotten about them.

You guys are great, fueling my love if gaming.

walking simulators have their place, but they get too much critical love because modern game journalists are dumber than pigeons and base their entire review on the mediocre story and forget that video games are supposed to be an interactive media with a loss condition or they're not games anymore. They're just movies that require you to touch the next flag to progress.

Seriously, watch the youtube video of a games journalist trying to solve the TUTORIAL of cuphead paired next to a pigeon in a science experiment trying to navigate a block puzzle to reach food. The Pigeon beats the journo.

DNSDies wrote on 2022-06-23, 14:40:

Video games are supposed to be an interactive media with a loss condition or they're not games anymore.

Puzzle games say hello.

Adventure games too actually.

ZellSF wrote on 2022-06-23, 14:57:

DNSDies wrote on 2022-06-23, 14:40:

Video games are supposed to be an interactive media with a loss condition or they're not games anymore.

Puzzle games say hello.

Adventure games too actually.

Please try to participate in the conversation in a non-condescending way, we all have our own opinions, this is an optional conversation. You don't need to try to brow beat everyone you disagree with via pithy one liners. Everyone should be respectful.

Maybe take a look in the mirror.

ZellSF wrote on 2022-06-23, 15:06:

Maybe take a look in the mirror.

I took the time to try to explain my position when you replied to me only so you could spend 10 seconds being rude back to me. This is a discussion thread, lets discuss, if you have a valid standpoint you should have no problem expressing that. People who can't justify their position try to insult and dismiss in an attempt to make it seem like brevity provides some kind of proof.

The post you quoted wasn't a reply to you. It was a reply to how another person's definition of video game, trying to exclude walking simulators, doesn't actually make any sense.

Yours doesn't either, for much the same reason. Adventure games and puzzle games are as much figuring out what to next do as walking simulators.

ZellSF wrote on 2022-06-23, 15:18:

The post you quoted wasn't a reply to you. It was a reply to how another person's definition of video game, trying to exclude walking simulators, doesn't actually make any sense.

Yours doesn't either, for much the same reason. Adventure games and puzzle games are as much figuring out what to next do as walking simulators.

I brought up Walking Sims, and you mentioned retirement home bingo. It doesn't matter that your other reply was to a different user it was about the same subject.

I'm glad that you added a defense to Walking simulators in your latest reply. In the case of walking simulators saying that movement itself is the puzzle seems like a pretty low bar to set for gameplay to me. Dragon's Lair is considered a game too which isn't too far from a walking simulator but it adds timing to the mix as well. No I don't think Dragon's Lair or any of those are great games, but there is a level of challenge there that I don't see in the walking simulators.

Anything in particular you're thinking of when referring to walking sims?

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-23, 15:25:

I brought up Walking Sims, and you mentioned retirement home bingo. It doesn't matter that your other reply was to a different user it was about the same subject.

It's generally understood that when you quote a post, your reply is to the post quoted. Not a comment on another post entirely.

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-23, 15:25:

I'm glad that you added a defense to Walking simulators in your latest reply. In the case of walking simulators saying that movement itself is the puzzle seems like a pretty low bar to set for gameplay to me. Dragon's Lair is considered a game too which isn't too far from a walking simulator but it adds timing to the mix as well. No I don't think Dragon's Lair or any of those are great games, but there is a level of challenge there that I don't see in the walking simulators.

1) I mentioned adventure games and puzzle games. Games with no timing elements. Are these not games?
2) You do more in walking simulators than just move.

I like walking simulators in some cases. For instance I think Bioshock Infinite would have been great without the meaningless repetitive action.