I am quite confused. The thread has gone from "Quake not running" to "Quake not playing well". The latter isn't happening, so to just play the game with minimun bottleneck that I can think of, just add a Voodoo

Just build a Socket 7 system or run a Pentium overdrive Socker 3 CPU for Quake.

Pentium Overdrive is hardly much better.

leileilol wrote on 2022-06-25, 02:40:

Quake heavily uses the FPU. 486s won't stop having a weak FPU and 3D accelerators will never ever hope to overcome that.

This is correct argument, I agree. ~20 fps - is enough for me from quake 2. For now it runs on software ~5-7 fps 320x200. I was amazed that it runs somehow.

200 Mhz overclock, tight L2 cache and memory timings, PCI sound card, Voodoo 2, tweaking some graphic effects via console and here you go - 20* fps in Quake 2 on 486! Maybe.

*Average frame rate from the first demo, which is not as intensive as some later scenes and can be divided by two for worst case scenarios, but who cares anyway, right?

I suppose it's like running Doom II on a 386DX 40Mhz and the best ISA video card.. it can be done but it becomes a sort of lab experiment and not really a realistic gaming config.

386SX wrote on 2022-06-26, 09:38:

I suppose it's like running Doom II on a 386DX 40Mhz and the best ISA video card.. it can be done but it becomes a sort of lab experiment and not really a realistic gaming config.

Pretty much, except the Rage XL isn't exactly the best 3D card for a 486 .

EDIT: That and a 386DX40 is actually above minimum requirements for Doom 2.

That and a 386DX40 is actually above minimum requirements for Doom 2.

[laughs in Downtown and Spirit World on Ultra-Violence]

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-06-29, 16:33:

That and a 386DX40 is actually above minimum requirements for Doom 2.

[laughs in Downtown and Spirit World on Ultra-Violence]

Yeah, those requirements were a bit optimistic .

Stamp Size Screen

alexartwww wrote on 2022-06-25, 19:34:

leileilol wrote on 2022-06-25, 02:40:

Quake heavily uses the FPU. 486s won't stop having a weak FPU and 3D accelerators will never ever hope to overcome that.

This is correct argument, I agree. ~20 fps - is enough for me from quake 2. For now it runs on software ~5-7 fps 320x200. I was amazed that it runs somehow.

I very much doubt you can get a consistent 20fps without reducing the screen down to postage stamp size. It just doesn't have the FPU, and the Rage card is anemic at best, at least with OpenGL.
As others have said Quake is best left to S7 or SS7 machines. Do what many others have done, myself included and set up a K6-2+ or K6-III+.
The board might be a bit costly but beyond that the options are endless.

FYI, I have a fast 486 machine as well and while it is fun to benchmark, it is really either too fast or too slow depending on the game in question.

darry wrote on 2022-06-26, 21:04:

386SX wrote on 2022-06-26, 09:38:

I suppose it's like running Doom II on a 386DX 40Mhz and the best ISA video card.. it can be done but it becomes a sort of lab experiment and not really a realistic gaming config.

Pretty much, except the Rage XL isn't exactly the best 3D card for a 486 .

EDIT: That and a 386DX40 is actually above minimum requirements for Doom 2.

I suppose the VLB Creative card is still the only 3D accelerator that had any reason to exist in a 486 powered config beside how much useful. I never tried the Voodoo 1 into a 486 PCI config but I suppose it might feel already a not much useful situation. It feel like an Atom with some high end GTX video card.

About Doom 2 I suppose the requirements were really more than optimistic for the average common everyday config of those time and not a floppy minimal boot ultra "high end" 80386 config or whatever. Even an expensive 386 config with Doom 1 has a difficult time in low detail and not even full screen in some levels like most here tried, Doom 2 becomes really a gaming experiment. I don't remember last time I tried but I suppose a <66Mhz version 80486 might have speed problems too.

386SX wrote on 2022-06-30, 08:40:

darry wrote on 2022-06-26, 21:04:

386SX wrote on 2022-06-26, 09:38:

I suppose it's like running Doom II on a 386DX 40Mhz and the best ISA video card.. it can be done but it becomes a sort of lab experiment and not really a realistic gaming config.

Pretty much, except the Rage XL isn't exactly the best 3D card for a 486 .

EDIT: That and a 386DX40 is actually above minimum requirements for Doom 2.

I suppose the VLB Creative card is still the only 3D accelerator that had any reason to exist in a 486 powered config beside how much useful. I never tried the Voodoo 1 into a 486 PCI config but I suppose it might feel already a not much useful situation. It feel like an Atom with some high end GTX video card.

About Doom 2 I suppose the requirements were really more than optimistic for the average common everyday config of those time and not a floppy minimal boot ultra "high end" 80386 config or whatever. Even an expensive 386 config with Doom 1 has a difficult time in low detail and not even full screen in some levels like most here tried, Doom 2 becomes really a gaming experiment. I don't remember last time I tried but I suppose a <66Mhz version 80486 might have speed problems too.

Even a 66 can't run it at max FPS on all maps IIRC.

appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-30, 09:05:

Even a 66 can't run it at max FPS on all maps IIRC.

I was expecting something like that. 😉
I never really cared a lot about Doom 2 cause I didn't have a fast config to play it (not even the first title, back in those times). I remember in the 1996 a 50Mhz 486 (I don't remember which cpu version it was) friend's config starting the first level in both low detail and SVGA or whatever the setting was and had quite a frame rate impact.

386SX wrote:

suppose the VLB Creative card is still the only 3D accelerator that had any reason to exist in a 486 powered config beside how much useful.

Eh, not exactly. Tomb Raider and Turok can run somewhat fine with acceleration (primarily 3dfx) on beefy 486, or any other game that is not heavy on FPU front. Darklight Conflict also works fine, without any acceleration whatsoever.
Overall, 486 had much better experience in early 3D games which were co-developed for PS1/Nintendo64 or ported from there, although far from perfect. But trying to play FPU heavy Quake engines on 486 is equivalent of banging your head against the wall.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-06-30, 09:53:

Eh, not exactly. Tomb Raider and Turok can run somewhat fine with acceleration (primarily 3dfx) on beefy 486, or any other game that is not heavy on FPU front.

I understand that for a short period of time, some accelerated and optimized games for 3dfx may run "ok" in a very late (that's the point I suppose) too late 486 cpu series but I wonder if the DX4 100Mhz cpu should have been "the last 486" with the other still interesting versions of course existed to sell cheaper still Win 95 usable configs when the Pentiums were just too expensive but not even oriented to such demanding real 3D PlayStation-like games (while as said it could do more on paper).
But the Voodoo 1 in a 486 config feels "ok" but also an uncommon choice.. I don't know if back in those times it was a common configuration to upgrade a 486 I suppose in not much easy to find PCI mainboards. But sure we've seen game console with much strange unbalanced configs (like the PS2 with its graphic chip compared to the cpu).

EDIT: The gameplay video of Tomb Raider anyway is impressive but it looks like suffering some (not unexpected) fps impact. Still impressive I agree while the cpu freq I suppose wasn't exactly common for most last 486 home configs. 😉

alexartwww wrote on 2022-06-24, 22:58:

I don't want to buy voodoo. They are expensive and quake 1 on voodoo ~ 17 fps on 640x480. This is too low for dream pc from our childhood.

Ok, any other solutions except voodoo and rage that will run opengl?

I have pci usb card, so it will have usb.

Quake on a Pentium 75Mhz is still far too a sluggish experience to enjoy, even with 3D acceleration from a VooDoo. With a 486, I'd stick with 486 era games. There are hundreds of amazing titles out there that will fly on that machine, but Quake (and certainly Quake 2) are not in the list.

For smooth Quake 1 gameplay I'd say a P120 with a VooDoo card, or a P166 in software, are about the minimum to be hovering around 45fps in gameplay, depending on the map.

appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-30, 09:05:

Even a 66 can't run it at max FPS on all maps IIRC.

The final map of Doom II on a 486-DX2-66 is barely playable, as is Suburbs as you look in from the edge of the map. I wouldn't call it "nice", but it's finishable with some swearing and minor hair loss.