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Reply 40 of 85, by 1ST1

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As long as it is a 386SX or better, install QEMM386 and then use parcp-USB... https://joy.sophics.cz/parcp/parcp-usb.html - it's really simple to use and it works fine with PCs and ATARI ST computers on the old side, and Windows-XP...11 or MacOS or Linux on the new computer side.

Alternatives are ZIP drives, a parallel port (or the SCSI-version) drive on the old computer and a USB drive on the new one. XT class computers need a NEC V20/V30 CPU to use the IOMEGA Guest driver (use Version 5.0, not older, not newer...!) or you need to buy the palmzip-Driver (which only works with older version drives). Note that for 100 MB medias you need to have DOS 4.01 or newer!

There are also some fancy solutions based on a simple adapter on parallel port for (small!) SD-cards.

Reply 41 of 85, by zapbuzz

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BNC lan hasn't been mentioned yet ISA through to PCI yeah baby old school coax lan everywhere was hotter than floppy. DOS 6.22 alowed null modem over serial port cable connections you need that cable though and quite rare. Also there are null modem over printer port they are rare too. Windows also allowed that to happen too but the GUI would sometimes slow down in frame rates for null communications.

Last edited by zapbuzz on 2022-07-21, 11:01. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 42 of 85, by Grzyb

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zapbuzz wrote on 2022-07-21, 10:14:

BNC lan hasn't been mentioned yet ISA through to PCI yeah baby old school coax lan everywhere was hotter than floppy.

I doubt if it's possible to connect a modern PC directly to coax Ethernet...

...to Arcnet, however, no problem at all - there are appropriate adapters for PCIe and USB.
Well, no problem in hardware... but it wouldn't be so easy on the software side.

Reply 43 of 85, by zapbuzz

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Grzyb wrote on 2022-07-21, 10:27:
I doubt if it's possible to connect a modern PC directly to coax Ethernet... […]
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zapbuzz wrote on 2022-07-21, 10:14:

BNC lan hasn't been mentioned yet ISA through to PCI yeah baby old school coax lan everywhere was hotter than floppy.

I doubt if it's possible to connect a modern PC directly to coax Ethernet...

...to Arcnet, however, no problem at all - there are appropriate adapters for PCIe and USB.
Well, no problem in hardware... but it wouldn't be so easy on the software side.

a pentium 1 is literally quite old though and with lan capabilities by addon cards.

Reply 44 of 85, by drosse1meyer

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Harlock wrote on 2022-07-21, 07:29:

Could you guys point me out to some resources or guide for setting up a FTP Client on Win95/98?
I think at the end, besides the IDE to USB adapter, I might give the FTP option a go, but that's kinda new for me.

Client, or server? There isn't much set up done on the client side aside from address, user/pass.

The version of IE that comes with win98 also supports basic ftp.

MSDOS prompt in Windows has 'ftp' cli binary as well.

As others mentioned, null modem with like hyper terminal or laplink running on both ends could work but it will be pretty slow. Depends on your use case / amount of data. It is possible to make one of these cables relatively easily.

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Reply 45 of 85, by Jo22

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Grzyb wrote on 2022-07-21, 10:27:
zapbuzz wrote on 2022-07-21, 10:14:

BNC lan hasn't been mentioned yet ISA through to PCI yeah baby old school coax lan everywhere was hotter than floppy.

I doubt if it's possible to connect a modern PC directly to coax Ethernet...

Requires a 10Base2 to 10BaseT converter.

https://www.google.de/search?biw=360&bih=631& … -gws-lite.0.0l1

Getting a good 50 Ohms coaxial cable is more tricky, though.
RG58 is nolonger adequate.
Unfortunately, most BNC ethernet cables use that.
What's worse, the reflections inside of low quality cables. It's impossible to get a good VSWR due to that ripple.
The reflections will also cause bad signal quality.
Thus, an VNA (nanoVNA, Rigexpert AA170 etc) is a must for testing.
In case of doubt, RG213 must be used. It's not available in horrible low quality yet.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 46 of 85, by Harlock

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drosse1meyer wrote on 2022-07-21, 11:30:
Client, or server? There isn't much set up done on the client side aside from address, user/pass. […]
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Harlock wrote on 2022-07-21, 07:29:

Could you guys point me out to some resources or guide for setting up a FTP Client on Win95/98?
I think at the end, besides the IDE to USB adapter, I might give the FTP option a go, but that's kinda new for me.

Client, or server? There isn't much set up done on the client side aside from address, user/pass.

The version of IE that comes with win98 also supports basic ftp.

MSDOS prompt in Windows has 'ftp' cli binary as well.

As others mentioned, null modem with like hyper terminal or laplink running on both ends could work but it will be pretty slow. Depends on your use case / amount of data. It is possible to make one of these cables relatively easily.

Client 😀 Good to know then.

Reply 47 of 85, by Jo22

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FTP.. Isn't FTP generally considered obsolete, like X.25, Telnet and the KERMIT protocol? :D

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 48 of 85, by Joakim

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I have a computer like this and I just hook up it to lan and use the usb device on an other computer to transfer directly to the pentium 1, via Microsoft file sharing protocol. If I had a slot to fill I might have got myself one of those floppy emulators that seem so popular. But I don't transfer a lot of files so it's fine this way.

Reply 49 of 85, by davidrg

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Jo22 wrote on 2022-07-21, 18:03:

FTP.. Isn't FTP generally considered obsolete, like X.25, Telnet and the KERMIT protocol? 😁

The Kermit protocol is still around! A beta version of the C-Kermit v10.0 for Windows (based on the former Kermit 95) went up a few days ago and I'm currently working on PTY support for Windows 10+!

Right now it supports serial, telnet, tcp/ip, and modem and runs on Windows 95+ and NT 4.0+ (probably 3.51 too). SSH works if you telnet somewhere first or soon once PTY support is working a little better you'll just be able to use the windows version of OpenSSH. Has a built in FTP client as well as http client too.

So you could fire up a copy of this on your Windows 10 box and your Windows 95 box (or DOShttps://www.kermitproject.org/mskermit.html or Classic Mac or practically anything else) and then send/receive files over the LAN/serial/whatever. Fully scriptable of course.

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Reply 50 of 85, by MarkP

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50 ohm coax, joiners, Ts and terminators are still available at our local electronic store. XP down still support NetBeui and a simple Work Group between the XP system and older kit using network shares will be easy to set up. This can been done with coax or RJ45 cabling.

Reply 51 of 85, by MarkP

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Jo22 wrote on 2022-07-21, 18:03:

FTP.. Isn't FTP generally considered obsolete, like X.25, Telnet and the KERMIT protocol? 😁

Has the TCPIP spec been eliminated/cancelled?

If using an "old" protocol in a network segment that doesn't directly face out side the network segment it doesn't matter one hook. It it works why not use it?

Reply 52 of 85, by dormcat

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Jo22 wrote on 2022-07-21, 18:03:

FTP.. Isn't FTP generally considered obsolete, like X.25, Telnet and the KERMIT protocol? 😁

For the record, Telnet has a very special place in Taiwan's academia, mass media, and even politics today.

Reply 53 of 85, by Grzyb

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dormcat wrote on 2022-07-22, 05:34:

For the record, Telnet has a very special place in Taiwan's academia, mass media, and even politics today.

But what's that "very special place"?
Do you mean it's used on modern machines?
That would be vary bad idea - unencrypted protocol is perfectly OK for anonymous FTP, but not for Telnet, where one logs in using password, and gains shell, ie. wide access to the system...

Reply 54 of 85, by dormcat

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Grzyb wrote on 2022-07-22, 10:40:

But what's that "very special place"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTT_Bulletin_Board_System

Being the largest bulletin board system in Taiwan, it has the power to affect many aspects of Taiwanese lives, such as promoting or attacking various interest groups (commercial, political, religious, showbiz, etc.).

Most media have reporters monitoring hot topics, resulting the decreasing quality of media contents, as the fastest and most cost effective way to create a "news" would be copying netizens' opinions.

Grzyb wrote on 2022-07-22, 10:40:

Do you mean it's used on modern machines?
That would be vary bad idea - unencrypted protocol is perfectly OK for anonymous FTP, but not for Telnet, where one logs in using password, and gains shell, ie. wide access to the system...

They terminated unencrypted Telnet just three months ago (on April 15); all future connections require either Websocket or SSH.

Reply 55 of 85, by Jo22

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MarkP wrote on 2022-07-21, 21:56:

50 ohm coax, joiners, Ts and terminators are still available at our local electronic store. XP down still support NetBeui and a simple Work Group between the XP system and older kit using network shares will be easy to set up. This can been mdone with coax or RJ45 cabling.

Yes, but how good/bad is the electrical quality?
I've bought a lot of 50 Ohms cable for my radio hobby. Online, as well as in a local store.. Even used pre-made 50 Ohm network cable.

The results were horrible. Extremely. Horrible. Shielding was very thin, a single (1!) wire at the center. Thin like a hair.
No match for real, 40 year old RG58CU that my father had stored in the attic.

The results of these 50 Ohms cables were shameful.
A measurement with a friend's Rigexpert AA170 (a VNA) showed an endless roller coster ride. Like a sine. Horrible.

Such cables shouldn't be allowed for sale.
They aren't even adequate for vintage networking.

They will make people think their equipment was defective.
Because, who expects a brand new cable to be totally defective?

A continuity tester will see no damage, after all. It works as a power lead.
A bad one, at least, considering how poor the center wire is. 😓

The only solution, for me, is to make my own cables from scratch, testing them with NanoVNA.
And use quality 50 Ohms cables like Beiden H155 or Aircell, Airflex etc.

Or buy ready made cables from a honorable amateur radio shop.

Edit: Appendix. In case it wasn't obvious, CB and amateur gear normally use unsymmetric coaxial cables with 50Ω impedance as a feedline. In the distant past, ~60Ω, too.
Popular connectors are SO239/PL259 (aka UHF or PL connectors), N or BNC. Miniature devices use SMA these days.

That's how it came that I tested 50 Ohm ethernet cables, too. I needed affordable 50 Ohms cables for a temporarily setup.
And these cables seemed promising thus. 50Ω, RG58 family (RGxx merely is a specification)..
And the BNC connectors were no problem, since there are high or medium quality adapters available.
But even without using one, soldering my own plugs on them, the results turned out to be the same (unexpected bad).
That's why I mentioned it. Sure, RGxx is just a loose specification (diameter, metal type, etc) ,but I haven't expected things to be that horrible.

Anyway, it's true that 75Ω impedance is commonly used by receivers. FM radios, FM scanners and TV equipment (satellite dish cables, old school terrestrial cabling).
Conmonly used is RG59 (75Ω) rather than RG58 (50Ω)..
Especially the satellite dish cables are low loss and cheap, but can't handle much power.

That did not stop CBers from using it, though. 😉
Thing is, that impedance mismatch causes a bad VSWR, sheet waves etc.
It can be corrected by 50/75Ω and 75/50Ω transformation on each end, respectively.
But the conversion is lossy. So some CBers rather live with a not so good VSWR.

Edit #2: Pictures added. Because a picture says more than a thousand words.
The exact cable types shouldn't cause this extreme differences, also not the length.
I had tested 10m of RG58 before that was flat (fine) like in the picture with the short one.
Sure, longer cables may have some reflection vs short ones, but that's just crazy.

Edit #3: Please notice the yellow line on the device.
A good cable stays near the bottom all the time (best SWR ratio).

Edit #4: Picture added. Let's see what's inside the modern ethernet cable (left).
Notice the quality of the braid (shielding) and how well (bad) its woven.
On the right is an ordinary, medium quality coaxial cable from the 1980s, as it was common.

Edit #5: Close-up picture added.
I know there are different flavors (hence the suffix C, U etc), but come on!
The center wire in the left should either be at least twice the size
or there should be 4-5 of them, at least.

Edit #6: Tried to fix the attachment witg the two cables.
Unfortunately, something broke. Can't attach a new picture.
Anyway, it's okay the way it is.

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    Ethernet "RG58" vs RG58CU from West-Germany
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    "RG58 COAXIAL CABLE - 50 OHM" , brand new ethernet cable bought online; 500 MHz test range; "Oh my god! It's full of stars!" :dead:
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    RG58U vintage network cable; came with old NIC; 500 MHz test range; ripple, not recommended
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    RG58/CU feedline, handmade by a ham; 500 MHz test range; slight ripple, but ok
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Last edited by Jo22 on 2022-07-24, 01:14. Edited 6 times in total.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 56 of 85, by drosse1meyer

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MarkP wrote on 2022-07-21, 23:34:
Jo22 wrote on 2022-07-21, 18:03:

FTP.. Isn't FTP generally considered obsolete, like X.25, Telnet and the KERMIT protocol? 😁

Has the TCPIP spec been eliminated/cancelled?

If using an "old" protocol in a network segment that doesn't directly face out side the network segment it doesn't matter one hook. It it works why not use it?

Yeah exactly. I find it easier to just quick set up a server like that, and it will work from any computer I have at home... macOS, win10, linux... than messing around with SMB which will definitely have problems...

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Reply 57 of 85, by Jo22

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Jeez, let's be a bit more progressive guys! 😁

Another idea, use Bluetooth. Or IrDA. Both allow file transfers without special software.
At least on Windows 9x and up.

IrDA works easily via RS232 adapter. Some vintage systems have built-in IrDA support in BIOS (RS232 settings).
Just dust off your soldering iron and add a diode/photo diode combo to a cable w/ header if needed.

Bluetooth also comes in PCMCIA/PC Card/Cardbus form factor.
And there are RS232 to Bluetooth adapters
With a null-modem cable/adapter, a wireless connection can be made easily between a vintage computer and a modern one with internal Bluetooth radio.

And even if that fails, it can still be used as a wireless serial connection.
Any terminal software, game etc. can open that serial port the way it used to do.

Edit: Edited.

Last edited by Jo22 on 2022-07-22, 20:59. Edited 1 time in total.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 58 of 85, by MarkP

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Jo22 wrote on 2022-07-22, 11:06:
Yes, but how good/bad is the electrical quality? I've bought a lot of 50 Ohms cable for my radio hobby. Online, as well as in a […]
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MarkP wrote on 2022-07-21, 21:56:

50 ohm coax, joiners, Ts and terminators are still available at our local electronic store. XP down still support NetBeui and a simple Work Group between the XP system and older kit using network shares will be easy to set up. This can been mdone with coax or RJ45 cabling.

Yes, but how good/bad is the electrical quality?
I've bought a lot of 50 Ohms cable for my radio hobby. Online, as well as in a local store.. Even used pre-made 50 Ohm network cable.

The results were horrible. Extremely. Horrible. Shielding was very thin, a single (1!) wire at the center. Thin like a hair.
No match for real, 40 year old RG58CU that my father had stored in the attic.

The results of these 50 Ohms cables were shameful.
A measurement with a friend's Rigexpert AA170 (a VNA) showed an endless roller coster ride. Like a sine. Horrible.

Such cables shouldn't be allowed for sale.
They aren't even adequate for vintage networking.

They will make people think their equipment was defective.
Because, who expects a brand new cable to be totally defective?

A continuity tester will see no damage, after all. It works as a power lead.
A bad one, at least, considering how poor the center wire is. 😓

The only solution, for me, is to make my own cables from scratch, testing them with NanoVNA.
And use quality 50 Ohms cables like Beiden H155 or Aircell, Airflex etc.

Or buy ready made cables from a honorable amateur radio shop.

You sould be using 75 OHM for radio stuff iirc.

Reply 59 of 85, by Jo22

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MarkP wrote on 2022-07-22, 20:59:

You sould be using 75 OHM for radio stuff iirc.

For an FM radio (88-108 MHz), yes.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//