MadYoshi wrote on 2022-07-26, 19:45:

The Intel SDS2 got a graphic card.

IMG_20220726_182252_2.jpg

After cleaning the cooler, i will make some benchmarks.

Is that a Parhelia PCI 256?

I got one but having a bit of trouble with it in my Supermicro P3TDLE.

sirotkaslo wrote on 2022-03-17, 13:05:

Hi,
which coolers are you using for your tualatins? I have the MSI pro266TD master LR and it got horrible caps positions. I unfortunately broke the clip on one of the oem coolers and need something new. I have titans, golden orbs, but nothing really fits 😀
thanks

Yes it appears MSI are idiots, and they did place the caps next to the sockets, specially on 1-2 places, there is not even any free space, hate when the idiot engineers do this kind of shit, then ppl are left with the hard choice what coolers to use, good for me my dual boards dont have such dumb placed caps... I am using Titan 462 coolers, they seems are doin very well, but i am planing to replace them with Coller Master Jet 7 coolers, as they look alot better but will see... Also the socket placement on that MSI board seems dumb as well, the sockets need to be as far as possible from each other, or at least not to be stacked one over another to heat the top socketed CPU extra...

MadYoshi wrote on 2022-07-26, 19:45:

The Intel SDS2 got a graphic card.

IMG_20220726_182252_2.jpg

After cleaning the cooler, i will make some benchmarks.

Much ram slots, yet no AGP slot, that sucks hard, let mes guess Tyan server grade mobo ?!? Nice card u got there Parhelia, and no cooler 🤣..

It seems i did not post my dual Tualatin sys in here...
That board is idiot/ bombproof.. Since i got it it did have problems, like BIOS rom ERROR, blown up secondary ram slot, and at least x3 places where the traces was without the industial PCB paint, and on top on all that there was thic coat from fucking cigarette smoke. The previous owner seems was idiot, no matter he was scientist from an university, he did all that crap on this nice board, but i was able to fix the board, after 3 baths of 95% isopol alcohol, then the board was a bit better working. Then did buy new caps to replace the bad brands, and used some nail polish to fix the messed up places and cover the traces. Since then the board is working great, the only 2 parts i dont get is, why the BIOS rom ERROR still presist, but if the system was not powered in like 2 weeks, the first start is nothing on the screen or beep, when left like that powered on/ black screen, after 10 minutes when restarting the system it post properly, did replace the PSU, as i did think it was from it, nah, need more testing about that crap. Also cant OC the CPUs, there is the option in the BIOS, but when i set whatever voltage it applies in BIOS< but on post screen and OS it is the default of 1.45v, never changes 🤣, but the frequency changes, and other stuff, very strange, and since 1.5GHz is not stable cuz of less voltage prob i keep them at stock 1.4.. I am looking for the exact same mobo anyway, since it is so tough and hard to be killed, it works after all that shit it did saw from the previous idiot owner, also it works witl all 4 slots, no matter the second slot is working only with 1 pin, as the one on the oposite side is blown up, whole miracle that board is still even posting after all this nonsense... There was also modding for the big cap next to the AGP slot, did prevent cards with coolers to be installed 🤣 .

This is why i consider that AOpen as a brand, and this board to be very very good. I had also x3 AOpen socket 7 boards (now only 1 sold the other 2) they was all working great. Looking into it to find AOpen AX6BC-Pro-II ME and AOpen AK79G Tube, Aopen AX3S Pro both Sweet Kiss and Che-Che...

Spec:
x2 Intel Pentium III 1400S
AOpen DX34R-U Dual 370
x2 ECC 512MB HyniX 133 + 1GB Hitachi (since i dont have 4 512 sticks, or second 1GB Hitachi i use only the x2 512, the 3 sticks work ok, and then when shutdown the system and boot some times it starts to BSOD and restarts)
MSI GEforce FX5950U/ XFX GEforce 7800GS/ 3Dfx Voodoo V 5500
200GB MaxtoR IDE
AC Bel 340W (IBM OEM)

About dual 370 boards so far i had ABIT BP6, AOpen DX34R-U, GIGAbyte GA-6VXD7 rev 1.0. From all of these the AOpen is the best, since it supports native Tualatins, and also it comes in Stealth Black color, sadly it does not have DUAL BIOS as the single socket AOpen board has or the GIGAbyte... Sadly this GA-6VXD7 is not the better model that supports native Tualatins... Also there is some higher end single socket boards from Gigabyte that support native Tualatin, even the high end Slot 1 GA-BX2000+ is blue PCB, why the hell then this GA-6VXD7 and the one with the blue sockets dont have blue PCB is the question.. ABIT dual s370 boards suck hard, i heard they are very UNstable boards, i sold mine, did not use it much cant say, but i still have that GIGAbyte and the AOpen.. Some ppl consider ASUS CUV4X-DLS to be the very best dual s370 (not sure if did natively support Tualatin), but i dont like the ASUS as brand at all they tend just to die for no reason at all. The MSI board is prob fine, aside from the dumb placing of the caps near the sockets.. I consider the AOpen to be one of the best, the color is great, and my mobo at least is bomb proof, sadly from the old/ vintage parts the only dual GPU card that makes sense for that board is XGI Volary V8 since its PCB is black as well, meanwhile Rage Fury MaXX and Voodoo V both are green ...

Aside from that voltage BS in BIOS and the delayed post, the mobo works like a charm, no instability issues on XP SP3, did run bunch of games, internet and stuff on the system, cant complain at all how the VIA chipset works or anything.

Radical Vision wrote on 2022-07-28, 13:14:

ABIT dual s370 boards suck hard, i heard they are very UNstable boards, i sold mine, did not use it much cant say,

*gasp*

OK well if you don't recap them you are probably correct.
Given some time and low ESR loving they are awesome tho.

That was from reviews back from Anadtech and when they was new i mean. So i dont think when someone recap them they will work better, then when was brand new cutting edge tech.. From my understanding the reviewers did state that the boards ABIT made was with weak VRMs, and the chipsets did made problems as well.. Cant say as i did know that they suck and are unstable even back in their days, so i just sold mine i will prob do the same if i encounter another dual socket ABIT mobo... Guess ABIT was very good at designing single socket boards, but when it comes to dual sockets, seems they did not design them very well.

And as this tread exists, ppl stat some other brand boards are also Unstable and suck, so guess is not only ABIT. So that prob means they was one of the worst boards out there... If someone have the guts and the nerves to use dual socket ABIT the BP6 seems very good, in terms of what it have dual sockets, AGP+PCI+ISA and all that on the great Intel 440BX chipset.. Still i prefer the Gigabyte GA-6VTXD that supports tualatin and some of them have ISA installed, others not..

https://www.gigabyte.com/Enterprise/Server-Mo … GA-6VTXD-rev-10

I used to own a recapped BP6 in ~2004ish. I ran it as a HTPC with Win2K for about three years and never had any problems. I only replaced it because I wanted something faster.

Radical Vision wrote on 2022-07-29, 16:02:

That was from reviews back from Anadtech and when they was new i mean. So i dont think when someone recap them they will work better, then when was brand new cutting edge tech.. From my understanding the reviewers did state that the boards ABIT made was with weak VRMs, and the chipsets did made problems as well.. Cant say as i did know that they suck and are unstable even back in their days, so i just sold mine i will prob do the same if i encounter another dual socket ABIT mobo... Guess ABIT was very good at designing single socket boards, but when it comes to dual sockets, seems they did not design them very well.

And as this tread exists, ppl stat some other brand boards are also Unstable and suck, so guess is not only ABIT. So that prob means they was one of the worst boards out there... If someone have the guts and the nerves to use dual socket ABIT the BP6 seems very good, in terms of what it have dual sockets, AGP+PCI+ISA and all that on the great Intel 440BX chipset.. Still i prefer the Gigabyte GA-6VTXD that supports tualatin and some of them have ISA installed, others not..

https://www.gigabyte.com/Enterprise/Server-Mo … GA-6VTXD-rev-10

TBH reviews back then and now suffer from much of the same problems.
They receive early samples with beta software/BIOS'es that are buggy and in some cases blatantly cheat to look good on benchmarks.
Now one could argue that manufacturers that send out buggy samples have only themselves to blame.
But as we now know there's quite a few "hardware" problems that have gotten sorted over the years, but the bad rep from early reviews lingered on.
There's always been a severe lack of revisiting hardware in the industry, even tho many components really benefits from software upgrades.

Not to mention the quality of reviews back then.
Again in hindsight, we/them didn't know better =)

bofh.fromhell wrote on 2022-07-29, 16:50:

TBH reviews back then and now suffer from much of the same problems. They receive early samples with beta software/BIOS'es that […]
Show full quote

Radical Vision wrote on 2022-07-29, 16:02:

That was from reviews back from Anadtech and when they was new i mean. So i dont think when someone recap them they will work better, then when was brand new cutting edge tech.. From my understanding the reviewers did state that the boards ABIT made was with weak VRMs, and the chipsets did made problems as well.. Cant say as i did know that they suck and are unstable even back in their days, so i just sold mine i will prob do the same if i encounter another dual socket ABIT mobo... Guess ABIT was very good at designing single socket boards, but when it comes to dual sockets, seems they did not design them very well.

And as this tread exists, ppl stat some other brand boards are also Unstable and suck, so guess is not only ABIT. So that prob means they was one of the worst boards out there... If someone have the guts and the nerves to use dual socket ABIT the BP6 seems very good, in terms of what it have dual sockets, AGP+PCI+ISA and all that on the great Intel 440BX chipset.. Still i prefer the Gigabyte GA-6VTXD that supports tualatin and some of them have ISA installed, others not..

https://www.gigabyte.com/Enterprise/Server-Mo … GA-6VTXD-rev-10

TBH reviews back then and now suffer from much of the same problems.
They receive early samples with beta software/BIOS'es that are buggy and in some cases blatantly cheat to look good on benchmarks.
Now one could argue that manufacturers that send out buggy samples have only themselves to blame.
But as we now know there's quite a few "hardware" problems that have gotten sorted over the years, but the bad rep from early reviews lingered on.
There's always been a severe lack of revisiting hardware in the industry, even tho many components really benefits from software upgrades.

Not to mention the quality of reviews back then.
Again in hindsight, we/them didn't know better =)

Good point i was thinking the same, after the guy above you said about his ABIT mobo. It appears after the bad ABIT reviews, maybe their boards was not as good, they did fix them. But sending ES or 80% finished product is dumb, and they deserve the bad press about it.. But anyway i consider the Gigabyte board to be prob one of the ultimate ones, the one from the link with the blue socekts it support tualatins, sadly it lacks Dual BIOS and the ISA slot, but if someone want it can solder them.. Sure there is the ASUS board that have the SCSI controller, or the MSI one with DDR400 slots instead of SDram, or the AOpen with the nice black paint, but if have to choose from all these i was going to pick the Gigabyte GA-6VTXD as having ISA slot >>>> everything else...

In the last week I got around to finally put together my first dual Tualatin system.

I finally ended up with:
Mainboard TYAN Tiger 200T (S2505T) with BIOS 2.10
2 x Pentium III-S 1.400 (SL6BY)
4 x 512 MB 133 MHz Registered SDRAM, CL3
Club3D Radeon HD 5450 PCI Edition (512 MB DDR2)
Noname USB 2.0 card (5 ports, NEC D720101)
Logilink IDE/SATA controller (VIA VT6421A)
Creative Soundblaster AWE 64 Value
80 GB Seagate Barracuda (7.200 rpm, IDE)
DVD (IDE, just for installation purposes)

The mainboard has an onboard Rage XL with 4 MB and an Promise Ultra 100 raid controller, which both are currently not activated. As the board has no AGP port, the graphics is limited to what can fit into a PCI slot.
A side note: the board did have really crappy low-quality caps and has been recapped by a friendly person in the dosreloaded forum.

I went through a temporal Windows 98 SE installation to test such a system with another Quadro NVS 100 PCI and Quadro NVS 280 PCI i had lying around, but finally installed Windows XP 32 Pro.
To be able to potentially use SATA and USB 3.0 I used a modified and slip-streamed version, meanwhile also stripping the SSE2-using updates.
Currently everything is detected without issues, but the ports on the additional SATA controller card are not tested yet.

Here are some 3DMark results from an almost completely unoptimized setup (only changes in BIOS: 4-bank interleave activated and RAM speed changed from "8-10 ns" to "normal"):

3DMark 2000:
6332 | 401 | 2 x P III-S 1.400 | Radeon HD 5450 PCI 650 / 333 with 512 MB DDR2

3DMark 2001 SE:
6729 | ? | 2 x P III-S 1.400 | Radeon HD 5450 PCI 650 / 333 with 512 MB DDR2

3DMark 2003:
4457 | 147 | 2 x P III-S 1.400 | Radeon HD 5450 PCI 650 / 333 with 512 MB DDR2

As is clearly visible, the PCI bus is severely limiting the gaming capabilities.

Skorbin wrote on 2022-09-08, 12:31:

In the last week I got around to finally put together my first dual Tualatin system. […]
Show full quote

In the last week I got around to finally put together my first dual Tualatin system.

I finally ended up with:
Mainboard TYAN Tiger 200T (S2505T) with BIOS 2.10
2 x Pentium III-S 1.400 (SL6BY)
4 x 512 MB 133 MHz Registered SDRAM, CL3
Club3D Radeon HD 5450 PCI Edition (512 MB DDR2)
Noname USB 2.0 card (5 ports, NEC D720101)
Logilink IDE/SATA controller (VIA VT6421A)
Creative Soundblaster AWE 64 Value
80 GB Seagate Barracuda (7.200 rpm, IDE)
DVD (IDE, just for installation purposes)

The mainboard has an onboard Rage XL with 4 MB and an Promise Ultra 100 raid controller, which both are currently not activated. As the board has no AGP port, the graphics is limited to what can fit into a PCI slot.
A side note: the board did have really crappy low-quality caps and has been recapped by a friendly person in the dosreloaded forum.

I went through a temporal Windows 98 SE installation to test such a system with another Quadro NVS 100 PCI and Quadro NVS 280 PCI i had lying around, but finally installed Windows XP 32 Pro.
To be able to potentially use SATA and USB 3.0 I used a modified and slip-streamed version, meanwhile also stripping the SSE2-using updates.
Currently everything is detected without issues, but the ports on the additional SATA controller card are not tested yet.

Here are some 3DMark results from an almost completely unoptimized setup (only changes in BIOS: 4-bank interleave activated and RAM speed changed from "8-10 ns" to "normal"):

3DMark 2000:
6332 | 401 | 2 x P III-S 1.400 | Radeon HD 5450 PCI 650 / 333 with 512 MB DDR2

3DMark 2001 SE:
6729 | ? | 2 x P III-S 1.400 | Radeon HD 5450 PCI 650 / 333 with 512 MB DDR2

3DMark 2003:
4457 | 147 | 2 x P III-S 1.400 | Radeon HD 5450 PCI 650 / 333 with 512 MB DDR2

As is clearly visible, the PCI bus is severely limiting the gaming capabilities.

Ignore me ...derp thats teh GPU ...

@TrashPanda
there are not many graphics cards available for PCI, which are faster.
From Nvidia there is the GT610 PCI, which is a rebranded GT520 PCI and the GT430 PCI.
They are nominally roughly double as fast as the HD 5450, but I doubt that you will see the difference in conjunction with the PCI interface.
On the AMD side there is only the HD 7350, which is basically a rebranded HD 5450, but with GDDR3 memory instead of DDR2.

All these cards mentioned above in the PCI version are pretty expensive (I got my HD5450 for 5€) and I won't shell out big money for a minor boost.

Skorbin wrote on 2022-09-08, 13:57:

@TrashPanda there are not many graphics cards available for PCI, which are faster. From Nvidia there is the GT610 PCI, which is […]
Show full quote

@TrashPanda
there are not many graphics cards available for PCI, which are faster.
From Nvidia there is the GT610 PCI, which is a rebranded GT520 PCI and the GT430 PCI.
They are nominally roughly double as fast as the HD 5450, but I doubt that you will see the difference in conjunction with the PCI interface.
On the AMD side there is only the HD 7350, which is basically a rebranded HD 5450, but with GDDR3 memory instead of DDR2.

All these cards mentioned above in the PCI version are pretty expensive (I got my HD5450 for 5€) and I won't shell out big money for a minor boost.

heh, I was about to talk about a Pentium 3 using DDR2 .. then my brain slapped me for being so stupid and not picking up its the GPU thats DDR2 ...not the system.

I really like the GT430, its a solid powerful PCI GPU, of the ATI ones I never bothered past the X1300 PCI I have, im honestly not a fan of ATIs PCI efforts, they did better with their last AGP cards. (Love the 3850 AGP)

I think that if you're pairing a GT430 with a pentium 3 then you've lost the plot. It may be the fastest PCI card, but it also necessities Windows XP.

I don't see any advantage in picking the Pentium 3, dual or otherwise, if you plan to run Windows XP, other than experimenting.

@Kahenraz
I think you missed an important fact: this thread is talking about DUAL tualatins.
What sense would it make to run an OS, which cannot take advantage of the second cpu?
And if you happen to have such a mainboard laying around, wouldn't you try out what is possible with such a system?
I for sure do!
And I can tell you that I also plan to run a low ressource version of Linux on it, probably Debian with XFCE or Antix, maybe even going the hard road with Gentoo or Linux-from-Scratch.

Is this sensible?
For most people probably not, but hey, it's my hobby, my time and my electricity bill 😉

And I think this systen even can "run" Crysis 😀

There are a few flavors of NT prior to XP. It is a fair argument though, because it is dual processor.

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-09-09, 11:50:

There are a few flavors of NT prior to XP. It is a fair argument though, because it is dual processor.

I have XP on a number of my P3 rigs ..why . .because I can and I prefer the stability of XP over that whore of an OS called 98, I do have 98se on there too but trying to use it for testing GPUs is a lesson in frustration and patience and quite frankly that OS just plain hates being fucked around with. (Yes my hatred for 98 has returned in force .. spent the last two weeks trying to use it for some testing ...it really hates driver switcharoo even with using a cleanup program)

XP for the most part runs perfectly fine on 1gb of ram and it has little to no issue with going through dozens of driver changes, it also support SMP and full Direct X which makes it a great choice over say NT3/4 .. an OS which while stable isn't the most suitable choice for the kind of testing im doing.

Not sure where people get the idea that XP isn't suitable for slower Pentium III machines, I get that it likely wont run well on less than 512mb of ram but shit I have had it running fine on a Dual Pentium II machine which is better suited to NT or Linux both of which are unsuitable for what I do.

Skorbin wrote on 2022-09-08, 18:19:

@Kahenraz I think you missed an important fact: this thread is talking about DUAL tualatins. What sense would it make to run an […]
Show full quote

@Kahenraz
I think you missed an important fact: this thread is talking about DUAL tualatins.
What sense would it make to run an OS, which cannot take advantage of the second cpu?
And if you happen to have such a mainboard laying around, wouldn't you try out what is possible with such a system?
I for sure do!
And I can tell you that I also plan to run a low ressource version of Linux on it, probably Debian with XFCE or Antix, maybe even going the hard road with Gentoo or Linux-from-Scratch.

Is this sensible?
For most people probably not, but hey, it's my hobby, my time and my electricity bill 😉

And I think this systen even can "run" Crysis 😀

Thats a bold claim, now you need to do it.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-09, 12:27:

I have XP on a number of my P3 rigs ..why . .because I can and I prefer the stability of XP over that whore of an OS called 98, […]
Show full quote

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-09-09, 11:50:

There are a few flavors of NT prior to XP. It is a fair argument though, because it is dual processor.

I have XP on a number of my P3 rigs ..why . .because I can and I prefer the stability of XP over that whore of an OS called 98, I do have 98se on there too but trying to use it for testing GPUs is a lesson in frustration and patience and quite frankly that OS just plain hates being fucked around with.

XP for the most part runs perfectly fine on 1gb of ram and it has little to no issue with going through dozens of driver changes, it also support SMP and full Direct X which makes it a great choice over say NT3/4 .. an OS which while stable isn't the most suitable choice for the kind of testing im doing.

Not sure where people get the idea that XP isn't suitable for slower Pentium III machines, I get that it likely wont run well on less than 512mb of ram but shit I have had it running fine on a Dual Pentium II machine which is better suited to NT or Linux both of which are unsuitable for what I do.

As much as I would love to tinker with an NT 4 system, I prefer the more forgiving character of Windows XP, especially when changing components and/or drivers.
And to be honest: I deem a dual king system with 2 GB a bit of overkill to NT. BTW, even an unpatched XP is not prepared for such amount of memory.

In the past (when XP was still the current system) I had the direct comparison between a Athlon XP 2800 vs. a dual P III 1000.
Even when the Athlon did better with games, the dual system felt smoother: it avoided these nagging short "thinking breaks" which occured in the single cpu system every now and then.
As a day to day machine it was definitely usable. And for most early 2000 games it even still packs enough punch.
Of course, if you want to build a retro gaming machine from scratch, you would better go with single cpu machines for 98 and with efficient and plentyfull core 2 duo platforms for XP.

And on a side note:
I have another dual P III board waiting here, ready to be packed with 2 x 500 MHz P III and then I will dabble in NT 4.0 as well.

Edit: I am currently looking to get Crysis for testing.

Skorbin wrote on 2022-09-09, 12:55:

As much as I would love to tinker with an NT 4 system, I prefer the more forgiving character of Windows XP, especially when chan […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-09, 12:27:

I have XP on a number of my P3 rigs ..why . .because I can and I prefer the stability of XP over that whore of an OS called 98, […]
Show full quote

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-09-09, 11:50:

There are a few flavors of NT prior to XP. It is a fair argument though, because it is dual processor.

I have XP on a number of my P3 rigs ..why . .because I can and I prefer the stability of XP over that whore of an OS called 98, I do have 98se on there too but trying to use it for testing GPUs is a lesson in frustration and patience and quite frankly that OS just plain hates being fucked around with.

XP for the most part runs perfectly fine on 1gb of ram and it has little to no issue with going through dozens of driver changes, it also support SMP and full Direct X which makes it a great choice over say NT3/4 .. an OS which while stable isn't the most suitable choice for the kind of testing im doing.

Not sure where people get the idea that XP isn't suitable for slower Pentium III machines, I get that it likely wont run well on less than 512mb of ram but shit I have had it running fine on a Dual Pentium II machine which is better suited to NT or Linux both of which are unsuitable for what I do.

As much as I would love to tinker with an NT 4 system, I prefer the more forgiving character of Windows XP, especially when changing components and/or drivers.
And to be honest: I deem a dual king system with 2 GB a bit of overkill to NT. BTW, even an unpatched XP is not prepared for such amount of memory.

In the past (when XP was still the current system) I had the direct comparison between a Athlon XP 2800 vs. a dual P III 1000.
Even when the Athlon did better with games, the dual system felt smoother: it avoided these nagging short "thinking breaks" which occured in the single cpu system every now and then.
As a day to day machine it was definitely usable. And for most early 2000 games it even still packs enough punch.
Of course, if you want to build a retro gaming machine from scratch, you would better go with single cpu machines for 98 and with efficient and plentyfull core 2 duo platforms for XP.

And on a side note:
I have another dual P III board waiting here, ready to be packed with 2 x 500 MHz P III and then I will dabble in NT 4.0 as well.

Edit: I am currently looking to get Crysis for testing.

The only dual P3 board I have right now is the ASUS P2B-D 1.06 which handles Coppermine slot1 CPUs, got a pair of 667 ones in it right now but have a pair of 933 ones coming. Looking at grab a Gigabyte ga-6vtxd should one ever hit the bay for my dual 1.4s CPUs.

I had a GA-6VTXD, but unfortunately it was completely dead.

Currently I have a build with an ASUS P2B-DS 1.06 with a pair of 1000/100 slot cpus (yes, i was lucky to get them some years ago), so it's running with stock speeds.
When the project Tyan Tiger 200T is finished I will try to get two more duallies up and running: GA-6VXD7 and GA-BXDS.

About 15 years ago I bought 10 dual boards cheap when nobody wanted them. Unfortunately two were not recoverable and 4 boards went to friendly people from our forum who recapped the other boards for me.
So this still left me 4 boards I am currently experimenting with.
The ASUS is rock solid and is currently acting as part time non-professional backup recovery server for old media (various tape drives, ZIP, etc.), running under Windows 2000 and Debian.
The TYAN Tiger 200T is now also up and running, but will probably see some minor hardware changes (putting the second hdd on IDE channel #2, installing some fan, etc.).