bloodem wrote on 2022-09-08, 04:46:

Yes, and I stand by what I said. :-) […]
Show full quote

Rocket202 wrote on 2022-09-07, 14:51:

"you should not be doing this".

Yes, and I stand by what I said. 😀

May I remind you:

bloodem wrote on 2022-08-04, 11:38:

[..] you'll either further damage the board aesthetically (which you've already done), or you'll end up damaging it completely. [...]

IMO, the solder job looks terrible and it's a shame for such a nice board...
Don't get me wrong, we've all destroyed some motherboards at some point in our lives, but the idea is to always practice on cheap/dummy boards, instead of doing it on what is arguably a rare and collector's board (I myself have yet to add a Gigabyte GA-5AX to my collection!)

Honestly most of the joints look like they need a lot more flux and a little more heat, and some decent solder and not that lead free shite.

But really its OPs board so let them have at it, I might actually have a bigger issue if it was one of the rare revisions like a 5.2 but its just a run of the mill 4.1 so let them mess around with it, either itll work or it wont, either way the OP will have learned valuable lessons for next time.

We all have to start somewhere and making mistakes on out own gear is a great way what to learn your limits are, once you know your limits you can push beyond them.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-08, 06:24:

But really its OPs board so let them have at it, I might actually have a bigger issue if it was one of the rare revisions like a 5.2 but its just a run of the mill 4.1 so let them mess around with it, either itll work or it wont, either way the OP will have learned valuable lessons for next time.

True, but you can learn the same lessons on a few scrap boards. 😁
Even the 4.1 revision is pretty rare/expensive (as are most ATX SS7 boards). These are now selling for $200+. Not sure who is crazy enough to pay these prices, but apparently there are many. 😁

bloodem wrote on 2022-09-08, 06:38:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-08, 06:24:

But really its OPs board so let them have at it, I might actually have a bigger issue if it was one of the rare revisions like a 5.2 but its just a run of the mill 4.1 so let them mess around with it, either itll work or it wont, either way the OP will have learned valuable lessons for next time.

True, but you can learn the same lessons on a few scrap boards. 😁
Even the 4.1 revision is pretty rare/expensive (as are most ATX SS7 boards). These are now selling for $200+. Not sure who is crazy enough to pay these prices, but apparently there are many. 😁

I paid more for my 5.2 revision, previous owner had it recapped it with Rubycons so I guess you might say it was worth the extra but 200 for a 4.1 does seem far more than they are actually worth.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-08, 07:17:

I paid more for my 5.2 revision, previous owner had it recapped it with Rubycons so I guess you might say it was worth the extra but 200 for a 4.1 does seem far more than they are actually worth.

To me, the only rev 5.2 Gigabyte GA-5AX (or rev 3.2 GA-5AA) boards that should be a bit more expensive (although, $200+ is still way too much even in that case, IMO) are the rare ones with the "revision G" North Bridge with an internal tag RAM (those work with 512 MB RAM without any performance penalty - and before anyone says it: yes, on older chipset revisions there is a performance penalty even when using a K6-2/3+ chip with on-die L2 cache). Contrary to popular belief, most rev 5.2 boards don't have a revision G north bridge and they still suffer from the 128 MB memory limit (which, truthfully, is not actually a deal breaker for a slow platform like SS7, but for collectors that are looking for rare boards, it is).

Other than that, the 5.2 revision is not that much different compared to something like rev 4.1. I think the only notable difference is the fact that rev 5.2 has a workaround for the potential AGP power delivery issues, by connecting it directly to the 3.3V PSU rail (this is nice but not that important, since the most power hungry card that one normally uses on a SS7 platform is the Voodoo 3, and as far as I know there are no reports of AGP power related issues on earlier Gigabyte GA-5AX boards).

"G Rev" is the one I have, its a super nice board but if I'm being real here .. I actually really like the little Zida Tomato board I have along with the FIC VA503+ if I need something faster with AGP, but for 90% of my socket 7 shenanigans the Zida board is just fun to use.

If I have to do anything with 3DFX AGP cards then sure the 5.2 is the one I use, same with a few PCI cards I have that dont like the PCI bus on earlier boards.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-08, 09:43:

"G Rev" is the one I have, its a super nice board but if I'm being real here .. I actually really like the little Zida Tomato board I have along with the FIC VA503+ if I need something faster with AGP, but for 90% of my socket 7 shenanigans the Zida board is just fun to use.

If I have to do anything with 3DFX AGP cards then sure the 5.2 is the one I use, same with a few PCI cards I have that dont like the PCI bus on earlier boards.

How is your performance with the Voodoo 3 AGP on the G revision GA-5AX?
I'm asking because the performance on the GA-5AA rev 3.2 (also rev. G north bridge) is quite bad, as I've shown in this post.

I've only used the 4500 and 5500 on it so far and both seem fine with it, cant say I have run any thorough testing on them but the performance feels about where it should be.

When I get around to it Ill throw a 3500 and 2000 on it and see how they compare, I have a feeling that they wont be any better than the results you got.

Did it matter what drivers you used ? or was it just poor performance across all drivers ?>

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-08, 10:14:

Did it matter what drivers you used ? or was it just poor performance across all drivers ?>

I've mentioned it in the aforementioned post 😀 :

bloodem wrote on 2022-03-05, 11:50:

I literally tried everything humanly possible, tested every combination of BIOS settings, tested both the F6 and F7b BIOS ROMS (both support K6-2/3 "+" CPUs), tested every combination of AGP tool settings, multiple ALI AGP drivers, multiple Voodoo 3 drivers (including some newer unofficial ones)... nothing worked.
Then I also tested a PCI Voodoo 3 3000 to see if this was somehow related to an AGP bug or not... and, it's not. The PCI version has the exact same problem.

rasz_pl wrote on 2022-09-07, 20:39:

From manufacturer its all fresh copper with no oxidation so joints are almost always perfect. Thru hole components are wave sold […]
Show full quote

Rocket202 wrote on 2022-09-07, 20:17:

One last question, in your experience, the solder points in the board always comes perfect from the manufacturer or sometimes is possible to find one that is not so well?, i mean the lead/structure from the inside.

From manufacturer its all fresh copper with no oxidation so joints are almost always perfect. Thru hole components are wave soldered with flux bath


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWH58QrprVc

Brand new properly stored components, cleanliness, preheating, angle and flow of solder ensure perfect joint.

In contrast the fist joint from the top on this picture looks dry, too little temperature and flux, not wetted properly. If a lot of power was going thru it it would start heating up, maybe even end up burned out.

Amazing!, i didnt understand "solder bath" untill i saw the video.

About the solder in the photo yes, it looks like a "cold solder"(invented name), i mean a solder without good properties, not power enough to disolve properly the tin and adhere to the motherboard tin (being on the surface), tin that can breaks etc (im just speaking with my electrode soldering point of view, maybe is different here) Is very interesting how giving more temperature & the appropriate enviroment how the lead change.

When i see this electronics soldering they blow my mind because compared to electrode is more sophisticated, for example the SMD, just giving heat to the tin, put the component in place and heating the tin, the tin will take his place and will be welded, is magic 🤣.
It's like the welding process has been highly refined. Compared to construction, maybe you have to use the radial to polish the surface to solder, if you have a rain weather you have to paint the solder or you get oxide. I'm not saying that soldering components is all super easy, it will also have its drawbacks but the comparison is like more sophisticated as if it were on another level.

bloodem wrote on 2022-09-08, 09:37:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-08, 07:17:

I paid more for my 5.2 revision, previous owner had it recapped it with Rubycons so I guess you might say it was worth the extra but 200 for a 4.1 does seem far more than they are actually worth.

To me, the only 5.2 Gigabyte GA-5AX (or 3.2 GA-5AA) boards that should be a bit more expensive (although, $200+ is still way too much even in that case, IMO) are the ones with the "revision G" North Bridge with an internal tag RAM (those work with 512 MB RAM without any performance penalty - and before anyone says it: yes, there is a performance penalty even when using a K6-2/3+ chip with on-die L2 cache). Contrary to popular belief, most rev 5.2 boards don't have a revision G north bridge and they still suffer from the 128 MB memory limit (which, truthfully, is not actually a deal breaker for a slow platform like SS7, but for collectors that are looking for rare boards, it is).

Other than that, the 5.2 revision is not that much different compared to something like rev 4.1. I think the only notable difference is the fact that rev 5.2 has a workaround for the potential AGP power delivery issues, by connecting it directly to the 3.3V PSU rail (this is nice but not that important, since the most power hungry card that one normally uses on a SS7 platform is the Voodoo 3, and as far as I know there are no reports of AGP power related issues on earlier Gigabyte GA-5AX boards).

I can understand your point of view and im not going to say is not correct.
The board was in a doubt condition as i explained here or in another thread.
I dont want to leave the board, buy another one or pay someone to do it, i prefer to learn, its true that i can practice with another one.I did it very quickly but.. with a mistake, i took a practice board (that ones had a lot of holes to solder componentes on it) and is not the same to the reality because a motherboard is more hard to work with.

I was cheking right now the soldering and honestly, i though yesterday when i did it that the solder had a much better appearance.
In other way, i know that my job for be the first time is not bad.

I'm not saying I did a perfect job because i can se this can be better, but is acceptable and I have gained experience and the ability to start in this world of soldering components.
In a future maybe ill think to buy a better equipment to this jobs because i like it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: i delete the other part of this reply, forget what i have said, everything is working OK, aparently DUKE3D awe32 mode has a "sound poping" no idea why, to me sound really weird + half life and other few things i though something was bad with the sound but aparently everything is fine.

I have spent a lot hours here today so im going to finish this and then im going to answer properly all of you.

Thank you guys.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-08, 06:24:

Honestly most of the joints look like they need a lot more flux and a little more heat, and some decent solder and not that lead […]
Show full quote

bloodem wrote on 2022-09-08, 04:46:

Yes, and I stand by what I said. :-) […]
Show full quote

Rocket202 wrote on 2022-09-07, 14:51:

"you should not be doing this".

Yes, and I stand by what I said. 😀

May I remind you:

bloodem wrote on 2022-08-04, 11:38:

[..] you'll either further damage the board aesthetically (which you've already done), or you'll end up damaging it completely. [...]

IMO, the solder job looks terrible and it's a shame for such a nice board...
Don't get me wrong, we've all destroyed some motherboards at some point in our lives, but the idea is to always practice on cheap/dummy boards, instead of doing it on what is arguably a rare and collector's board (I myself have yet to add a Gigabyte GA-5AX to my collection!)

Honestly most of the joints look like they need a lot more flux and a little more heat, and some decent solder and not that lead free shite.

But really its OPs board so let them have at it, I might actually have a bigger issue if it was one of the rare revisions like a 5.2 but its just a run of the mill 4.1 so let them mess around with it, either itll work or it wont, either way the OP will have learned valuable lessons for next time.

We all have to start somewhere and making mistakes on out own gear is a great way what to learn your limits are, once you know your limits you can push beyond them.

to answer.

I havent used lead free solder, i use 58/40/2, maybe the quality of the tin is not really good i can untand that but while using the tin it havent made me too much problems, i mean for example once i soldered the point not been able to remove it or whatever.

The flux i used is JBC, is transparent, it evaporates very quickly in 1-2 seconds literally, maybe is not the ideal flux because i saw another people soldering under the flux with the tip like if that is a pool with no problems.

My point here is, is the first time i do this so, is this really bad?, i mean to make problems, burnt or whatever, Can it be used without any risk?, is not perfect okey, my purpose is to play and enjoy.

Thanks!

Im not agree with Bloodem with "this is a terrible job", im an electrode solder, so i know perfectly how is a really bad job done and how is start to solder and I highly doubt that soldering components is any different, im pretty sure there is people who when start to do this smash the board.

The point here is make the job, i listen to any tip or whatever you want to tell me, advices, your feedback is very welcome.

bloodem wrote on 2022-09-08, 10:34:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-08, 10:14:

Did it matter what drivers you used ? or was it just poor performance across all drivers ?>

I've mentioned it in the aforementioned post 😀 :

bloodem wrote on 2022-03-05, 11:50:

I literally tried everything humanly possible, tested every combination of BIOS settings, tested both the F6 and F7b BIOS ROMS (both support K6-2/3 "+" CPUs), tested every combination of AGP tool settings, multiple ALI AGP drivers, multiple Voodoo 3 drivers (including some newer unofficial ones)... nothing worked.
Then I also tested a PCI Voodoo 3 3000 to see if this was somehow related to an AGP bug or not... and, it's not. The PCI version has the exact same problem.

I tell you the same as above, i dont think the board is messed, i havent broken anything, so if you want to give me your feedback about the job, im going to have any problems?, the joint will burnt or whatever?, i dont think so but im not a professional so i want your feedback.

About what you said the price, the ebay's prices are just to scam you, literally that people is waiting for people like you (knowledgeable in retro computers) and ask for a lot of money because you know what are you buying and they know what you want, thats all.

As i said, i paid for the tower 70€, everything instead of the board is in the bin, because literally was trash (im going to post pictures and youre going to understand)

Im not trying to teach you anything but my tip for you is go to the popular second market apps or sites in your country and invest some time to find the pc you want, that is what i've done.
I came here as "a novice in retro computers" (but i've been involved in the computer world since i have 8 years, know i have 35) and i saw how is the panorama, im not going to pay for that scam prices.

I live in Spain, here we have a very popular second market AP and super socket 7 boards there is a few, so i invest one week looking to the retro pcs was selling people, identifying boards because the people dont give any description "im selling a retro pc" (i have to learn which boards etc but this is not your case).

Im going to tell you something that maybe will change your point of view. In my country in the 90's i saw this pc cases in the bin, is true the time is important and that makes the valuable products make them more expensive but here is big BUT, that prices in ebay are truth?, no man, they are totally a scam as i said, waiting for you.

If you dont believe me, i spoke with a guy who resell this material, build retro pc for people etc and I asked him for advice of this pc before buying it because I didnt see it in good condition and i bought it not tested "just i power on the computer and it works", he told me "i paid for that board 100€, buy it", 100€ is not 200€, right?, so if this guy buy it for 100€ how much will he charge you to resell it?.

you have to invest your time to buy this material. In my country there are people getting material from houses, companies etc, taking away the opportunity to buy it and then reselling it or see a lot more material to buy directly to individual people, not shops or resellers.

The guy who sold me this board take the material from a green point, in my country this is how is called a place where people leave material to recycle, someone who works there gave it to him.

Another example, i saw a Soyo 5ema+ board, the full tower for 60€, another soyo for 60€, idk if that is a valueable board but from what i read is not bad. People in ebay is asking much more money for that board.

I can understand in some cases a board is not cheap, i can understand that, but if you search for any SS7 board in ebay im pretty sure the 80% of them has a high prices because is what i saw there.

cheers and thanks.

rasz_pl wrote on 2022-09-07, 20:39:

In contrast the fist joint from the top on this picture looks dry, too little temperature and flux, not wetted properly. If a lo […]
Show full quote

In contrast the fist joint from the top on this picture looks dry, too little temperature and flux, not wetted properly. If a lot of power was going thru it it would start heating up, maybe even end up burned out.

One question Rasz, whe you said this about the solder, were you talking about my soldering or the one on the one from the fabric?.

I think the last ressult is more good than before, so do you think that solder points can burnt or whatever or is it acceptable.

Thanks!

Rocket202 wrote on 2022-09-08, 21:54:

to answer. […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-08, 06:24:

Honestly most of the joints look like they need a lot more flux and a little more heat, and some decent solder and not that lead […]
Show full quote

bloodem wrote on 2022-09-08, 04:46:

Yes, and I stand by what I said. :-) […]
Show full quote

Yes, and I stand by what I said. 😀

May I remind you:

IMO, the solder job looks terrible and it's a shame for such a nice board...
Don't get me wrong, we've all destroyed some motherboards at some point in our lives, but the idea is to always practice on cheap/dummy boards, instead of doing it on what is arguably a rare and collector's board (I myself have yet to add a Gigabyte GA-5AX to my collection!)

Honestly most of the joints look like they need a lot more flux and a little more heat, and some decent solder and not that lead free shite.

But really its OPs board so let them have at it, I might actually have a bigger issue if it was one of the rare revisions like a 5.2 but its just a run of the mill 4.1 so let them mess around with it, either itll work or it wont, either way the OP will have learned valuable lessons for next time.

We all have to start somewhere and making mistakes on out own gear is a great way what to learn your limits are, once you know your limits you can push beyond them.

to answer.

I havent used lead free solder, i use 58/40/2, maybe the quality of the tin is not really good i can untand that but while using the tin it havent made me too much problems, i mean for example once i soldered the point not been able to remove it or whatever.

The flux i used is JBC, is transparent, it evaporates very quickly in 1-2 seconds literally, maybe is not the ideal flux because i saw another people soldering under the flux with the tip like if that is a pool with no problems.

My point here is, is the first time i do this so, is this really bad?, i mean to make problems, burnt or whatever, Can it be used without any risk?, is not perfect okey, my purpose is to play and enjoy.

Thanks!

Im not agree with Bloodem with "this is a terrible job", im an electrode solder, so i know perfectly how is a really bad job done and how is start to solder and I highly doubt that soldering components is any different, im pretty sure there is people who when start to do this smash the board.

The point here is make the job, i listen to any tip or whatever you want to tell me, advices, your feedback is very welcome.

bloodem wrote on 2022-09-08, 10:34:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-08, 10:14:

Did it matter what drivers you used ? or was it just poor performance across all drivers ?>

I've mentioned it in the aforementioned post 😀 :

bloodem wrote on 2022-03-05, 11:50:

I literally tried everything humanly possible, tested every combination of BIOS settings, tested both the F6 and F7b BIOS ROMS (both support K6-2/3 "+" CPUs), tested every combination of AGP tool settings, multiple ALI AGP drivers, multiple Voodoo 3 drivers (including some newer unofficial ones)... nothing worked.
Then I also tested a PCI Voodoo 3 3000 to see if this was somehow related to an AGP bug or not... and, it's not. The PCI version has the exact same problem.

I tell you the same as above, i dont think the board is messed, i havent broken anything, so if you want to give me your feedback about the job, im going to have any problems?, the joint will burnt or whatever?, i dont think so but im not a professional so i want your feedback.

About what you said the price, the ebay's prices are just to scam you, literally that people is waiting for people like you (knowledgeable in retro computers) and ask for a lot of money because you know what are you buying and they know what you want, thats all.

As i said, i paid for the tower 70€, everything instead of the board is in the bin, because literally was trash (im going to post pictures and youre going to understand)

Im not trying to teach you anything but my tip for you is go to the popular second market apps or sites in your country and invest some time to find the pc you want, that is what i've done.
I came here as "a novice in retro computers" (but i've been involved in the computer world since i have 8 years, know i have 35) and i saw how is the panorama, im not going to pay for that scam prices.

I live in Spain, here we have a very popular second market AP and super socket 7 boards there is a few, so i invest one week looking to the retro pcs was selling people, identifying boards because the people dont give any description "im selling a retro pc" (i have to learn which boards etc but this is not your case).

Im going to tell you something that maybe will change your point of view. In my country in the 90's i saw this pc cases in the bin, is true the time is important and that makes the valuable products make them more expensive but here is big BUT, that prices in ebay are truth?, no man, they are totally a scam as i said, waiting for you.

If you dont believe me, i spoke with a guy who resell this material, build retro pc for people etc and I asked him for advice of this pc before buying it because I didnt see it in good condition and i bought it not tested "just i power on the computer and it works", he told me "i paid for that board 100€, buy it", 100€ is not 200€, right?, so if this guy buy it for 100€ how much will he charge you to resell it?.

you have to invest your time to buy this material. In my country there are people getting material from houses, companies etc, taking away the opportunity to buy it and then reselling it or see a lot more material to buy directly to individual people, not shops or resellers.

The guy who sold me this board take the material from a green point, in my country this is how is called a place where people leave material to recycle, someone who works there gave it to him.

Another example, i saw a Soyo 5ema+ board, the full tower for 60€, another soyo for 60€, idk if that is a valueable board but from what i read is not bad. People in ebay is asking much more money for that board.

I can understand in some cases a board is not cheap, i can understand that, but if you search for any SS7 board in ebay im pretty sure the 80% of them has a high prices because is what i saw there.

cheers and thanks.

rasz_pl wrote on 2022-09-07, 20:39:

In contrast the fist joint from the top on this picture looks dry, too little temperature and flux, not wetted properly. If a lo […]
Show full quote

In contrast the fist joint from the top on this picture looks dry, too little temperature and flux, not wetted properly. If a lot of power was going thru it it would start heating up, maybe even end up burned out.

One question Rasz, whe you said this about the solder, were you talking about my soldering or the one on the one from the fabric?.

I think the last ressult is more good than before, so do you think that solder points can burnt or whatever or is it acceptable.

Thanks!

Was just an observation, but so you know for next time too little heat and flux simply means that the joint may not be making the best connection with the pad below it and over time with repeated heating and cooling from use the joint that is making contact can break.

Too much heat is really just as bad as you have noticed it can burn the PCB itself, and not enough flux does exactly what you noticed, it evaporates quickly. I think for a first attempt you learned quite a bit, a suggestion would be to find some scrap circuit boards and practise soldering/desoldering on them to get a feel for your iron and what tempretures works best with it.

Rocket202 wrote on 2022-09-08, 21:54:

My point here is, is the first time i do this so, is this really bad?

Its really bad because instead of learning on some scrap you decided to learn on an item you want fixed and preserved. Thats what is upsetting people 😀

Rocket202 wrote on 2022-09-08, 21:54:

rasz_pl wrote on 2022-09-07, 20:39:

In contrast the fist joint from the top on this picture looks dry, too little temperature and flux, not wetted properly. If a lo […]
Show full quote

In contrast the fist joint from the top on this picture looks dry, too little temperature and flux, not wetted properly. If a lot of power was going thru it it would start heating up, maybe even end up burned out.

One question Rasz, whe you said this about the solder, were you talking about my soldering

Specifically about what I see on the quoted photo. Stuff there is not soldered, it has solder sticking to capacitor lets.