bloodem wrote on 2022-09-09, 11:55:

I mean, sure, you could look at it as being a hardware problem

The location of the flaw is not my point, either if the bug can be the result of a hardware design flaw or its due to a software problem of the given game or driver, doesnt matters, the end result is the same: a title you cant play. And if you want to run the certain workload, you need to use a different cpu. For example, about half of the hardware and game i want to run on that computer is affected, thats why i am using the cyrix 6x86mx in the computer, and thats why i recommend others to do so as well.

(Meanwhile for an office type usage, the k6/2/3 family is a better choice, i agree on that.)

Can you name one game that doesn't work with an AMD K6-2/3+ CPU / Asus P5A-B / Voodoo 3 combo?
And I will prove to you that it does. 😀

bloodem wrote on 2022-09-09, 12:04:

Can you name one game that doesn't work with an AMD K6-2/3+ CPU / Asus P5A-B / Voodoo 3 combo?
And I will prove to you that it does. 😀

sure
it goes by the file name Formula-1_Win_EN_1997.zip
(i deleted the link here, i probably shared the wrong game)
It says it supports d3d, glide, rredline
i tested it with tnt1 not with voodoo3 tho.
If you can't find it, contact me in PM, now i am also curious.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-09-09, 03:47:

Can I ask...how were you able to get 112hz FSB to work? I have been messing with my board but I can't seem to get it to work. W […]
Show full quote

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-06, 21:13:

I decided to stop being a slacker and mod the chip. The result was typical, but it won't do the hoped for 672 MHz. A giveaway that this card is CPU limited is that overclocking it makes no real difference in the score.

Can I ask...how were you able to get 112hz FSB to work? I have been messing with my board but I can't seem to get it to work.
When I configure the jp8/jp9/jp10 blocks to reference what the manual says I just get 100mhz bus/66agp/100mhz ram. Same as if I configure it to what the manual says for 100mhz.
I can get 124mhz to post but it is of course unstable and mostly useless, perhaps if I disabled motherboard cache. But I've not tried that as I don't really want to try for 124mhz FSB.

I have tried several different cl2 sticks of ram, both PC133 and Pc100. Single sticks etc etc. I am sure that I am doing something wrong, probably something simple and obvious but for the life of me.....
Maybe it is a revision thing or bios version?

I've two ATX Super Seven motherboards, this one and an Epox and both have been rock solid with both FSB settings and working with video cards that are a bit on the power hungry side for motherboards known for having AGP issues. With my Soyo board all I had to do was to set the DIP switch to the FSB of my choosing - so long as the clock speed was within the limit of the CPU, it works. Perhaps it has a better BIOS, or something about the PCB design. If you're using an AT PSU, I'd try an ATX with a minimum of 300 watts to make sure that a weak +5 isn't holding you back.

When you say setting it to what should be 112 MHz FSB gives you 100, is that what the POST screen says, or are you checking it in Windows? I've noticed that some of these boards don't report the correct CPU speed when you're overclocking.

I spent a couple of hours yesterday playing Unreal Tournament on mine yesterday. Yes, I run it at 800x600 with 16 bit color, but I do get a kick out of playing that game on what's actually a better computer than what I had for most of 2001.

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-09, 13:56:

I've two ATX Super Seven motherboards, this one and an Epox and both have been rock solid with both FSB settings and working wit […]
Show full quote

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-09-09, 03:47:

Can I ask...how were you able to get 112hz FSB to work? I have been messing with my board but I can't seem to get it to work. W […]
Show full quote

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-06, 21:13:

I decided to stop being a slacker and mod the chip. The result was typical, but it won't do the hoped for 672 MHz. A giveaway that this card is CPU limited is that overclocking it makes no real difference in the score.

Can I ask...how were you able to get 112hz FSB to work? I have been messing with my board but I can't seem to get it to work.
When I configure the jp8/jp9/jp10 blocks to reference what the manual says I just get 100mhz bus/66agp/100mhz ram. Same as if I configure it to what the manual says for 100mhz.
I can get 124mhz to post but it is of course unstable and mostly useless, perhaps if I disabled motherboard cache. But I've not tried that as I don't really want to try for 124mhz FSB.

I have tried several different cl2 sticks of ram, both PC133 and Pc100. Single sticks etc etc. I am sure that I am doing something wrong, probably something simple and obvious but for the life of me.....
Maybe it is a revision thing or bios version?

I've two ATX Super Seven motherboards, this one and an Epox and both have been rock solid with both FSB settings and working with video cards that are a bit on the power hungry side for motherboards known for having AGP issues. With my Soyo board all I had to do was to set the DIP switch to the FSB of my choosing - so long as the clock speed was within the limit of the CPU, it works. Perhaps it has a better BIOS, or something about the PCB design. If you're using an AT PSU, I'd try an ATX with a minimum of 300 watts to make sure that a weak +5 isn't holding you back.

When you say setting it to what should be 112 MHz FSB gives you 100, is that what the POST screen says, or are you checking it in Windows? I've noticed that some of these boards don't report the correct CPU speed when you're overclocking.

I spent a couple of hours yesterday playing Unreal Tournament on mine yesterday. Yes, I run it at 800x600 with 16 bit color, but I do get a kick out of playing that game on what's actually a better computer than what I had for most of 2001.

Thanks for the reply.
On my Soyo board I am using the latest BIOS release. 4.51 (1EA+1)
And yes I mean that I configured the JP8,9,10 to reference 112/66/112 with either a 6x or 5x multi it posts and reports 100FSB.
But I didn't take that to heart and checked with Everest in Windows as well as Speedsys and CPUinfo utility in DOS.
It is just strange to me that I can't get it to at least post and fail or refuse to post. It boots up and works fine, just at the lower speed.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-09-09, 17:04:

Thanks for the reply. On my Soyo board I am using the latest BIOS release. 4.51 (1EA+1) And yes I mean that I configured the J […]
Show full quote

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-09, 13:56:

I've two ATX Super Seven motherboards, this one and an Epox and both have been rock solid with both FSB settings and working wit […]
Show full quote

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-09-09, 03:47:

Can I ask...how were you able to get 112hz FSB to work? I have been messing with my board but I can't seem to get it to work. W […]
Show full quote

Can I ask...how were you able to get 112hz FSB to work? I have been messing with my board but I can't seem to get it to work.
When I configure the jp8/jp9/jp10 blocks to reference what the manual says I just get 100mhz bus/66agp/100mhz ram. Same as if I configure it to what the manual says for 100mhz.
I can get 124mhz to post but it is of course unstable and mostly useless, perhaps if I disabled motherboard cache. But I've not tried that as I don't really want to try for 124mhz FSB.

I have tried several different cl2 sticks of ram, both PC133 and Pc100. Single sticks etc etc. I am sure that I am doing something wrong, probably something simple and obvious but for the life of me.....
Maybe it is a revision thing or bios version?

I've two ATX Super Seven motherboards, this one and an Epox and both have been rock solid with both FSB settings and working with video cards that are a bit on the power hungry side for motherboards known for having AGP issues. With my Soyo board all I had to do was to set the DIP switch to the FSB of my choosing - so long as the clock speed was within the limit of the CPU, it works. Perhaps it has a better BIOS, or something about the PCB design. If you're using an AT PSU, I'd try an ATX with a minimum of 300 watts to make sure that a weak +5 isn't holding you back.

When you say setting it to what should be 112 MHz FSB gives you 100, is that what the POST screen says, or are you checking it in Windows? I've noticed that some of these boards don't report the correct CPU speed when you're overclocking.

I spent a couple of hours yesterday playing Unreal Tournament on mine yesterday. Yes, I run it at 800x600 with 16 bit color, but I do get a kick out of playing that game on what's actually a better computer than what I had for most of 2001.

Thanks for the reply.
On my Soyo board I am using the latest BIOS release. 4.51 (1EA+1)
And yes I mean that I configured the JP8,9,10 to reference 112/66/112 with either a 6x or 5x multi it posts and reports 100FSB.
But I didn't take that to heart and checked with Everest in Windows as well as Speedsys and CPUinfo utility in DOS.
It is just strange to me that I can't get it to at least post and fail or refuse to post. It boots up and works fine, just at the lower speed.

Pic of clock gen chip?

Sometimes different model clock gens are used on the same model board.

You can also try running through all the dip/jumper combos (careful how you set jumpers.)

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-09-09, 03:14:

It really is a shame that those MIIs didn’t clock higher. At their respective mhz they were quite good. But yeah, k6-3+ is defin […]
Show full quote

It really is a shame that those MIIs didn’t clock higher. At their respective mhz they were quite good. But yeah, k6-3+ is definitely the fastest socket 5/7/ss7 cpu. Would be interesting to know if it was fastest per clock though🤔

There was a socket 7 mIII in development at one point called “jedi” it was rumored to have on chip l2

A real shame that it never was released.

I keep hoping that one pops up in the hands of a engineer somewhere on the internet, but so far no luck.

There were a few joshua cores to make it out though for the socket 370 platform. If anyone reading this has one hit me up.

Fun fact is that technically it is possible to compare a pentium 1 mmx at 4-500mhz to other chips of the same speed thanks to the tillamook. It is amazing how well they overclock. Really. They have a 4x multiplier. And some apparently even a 4.5x but those are super rare.

Yeah the Cyrix chips have actually great IPC, better I am sure in integer performance than a K6, possibly a MMX as well. Just wish they clocked higher and had a bit stronger FPU.
The Tillamooks are impressive. I don't have any standard PGA version unfortunately, but I do have a 266 in my Gateway Solo 2300 and it does very well in most old dos games at VGA resolutions.
I should try Unreal in software, I'm curious how well it would do.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-09-09, 17:06:

Pic of clock gen chip? […]
Show full quote

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-09-09, 17:04:

Thanks for the reply. On my Soyo board I am using the latest BIOS release. 4.51 (1EA+1) And yes I mean that I configured the J […]
Show full quote

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-09, 13:56:

I've two ATX Super Seven motherboards, this one and an Epox and both have been rock solid with both FSB settings and working with video cards that are a bit on the power hungry side for motherboards known for having AGP issues. With my Soyo board all I had to do was to set the DIP switch to the FSB of my choosing - so long as the clock speed was within the limit of the CPU, it works. Perhaps it has a better BIOS, or something about the PCB design. If you're using an AT PSU, I'd try an ATX with a minimum of 300 watts to make sure that a weak +5 isn't holding you back.

When you say setting it to what should be 112 MHz FSB gives you 100, is that what the POST screen says, or are you checking it in Windows? I've noticed that some of these boards don't report the correct CPU speed when you're overclocking.

I spent a couple of hours yesterday playing Unreal Tournament on mine yesterday. Yes, I run it at 800x600 with 16 bit color, but I do get a kick out of playing that game on what's actually a better computer than what I had for most of 2001.

Thanks for the reply.
On my Soyo board I am using the latest BIOS release. 4.51 (1EA+1)
And yes I mean that I configured the JP8,9,10 to reference 112/66/112 with either a 6x or 5x multi it posts and reports 100FSB.
But I didn't take that to heart and checked with Everest in Windows as well as Speedsys and CPUinfo utility in DOS.
It is just strange to me that I can't get it to at least post and fail or refuse to post. It boots up and works fine, just at the lower speed.

Pic of clock gen chip?

Sometimes different model clock gens are used on the same model board.

You can also try running through all the dip/jumper combos (careful how you set jumpers.)

I will have to take a look at it when I get home and see what it is

Geri wrote on 2022-09-09, 11:26:

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-09-09, 02:59:

Dude I don't know what got up your ass and died....but let me explain to you that I

You might talk to your mom in this style, but not with me. Muted.

Oh, how shall I ever survive.

Okay, I ran the Unreal Tournament time demo on both of my MVP3 boards. The Soyo has the Quadro card, the Epox has a GeForce 3 Ti 200. The Soyo has an AD1816 ISA card, the Epox has a Live 5.1 Creative PCI. I tried both 800x600 and 1024x768. This is a playable framerate.

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-09, 19:08:

Okay, I ran the Unreal Tournament time demo on both of my MVP3 boards. The Soyo has the Quadro card, the Epox has a GeForce 3 Ti 200. The Soyo has an AD1816 ISA card, the Epox has a Live 5.1 Creative PCI. I tried both 800x600 and 1024x768. This is a playable framerate.

Thank you for doing that.
Quite playable I would say, 800x600 is where I usually keep it on most games on my SS7 builds.
Quite comparable performance as well.

Not sure where that other poster was getting his ideas that K6-3+ chips are so slow that they can't run titles of their time period.....

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-09-09, 08:05:

If you can’t find the setting, look up the datasheet of your clockgen. […]
Show full quote

If you can’t find the setting, look up the datasheet of your clockgen.

As for stability,

Often overclocking woes are from worn out capacitors. Try a re cap.

Someone should try powering vcc3 and vcc2 with lab quality PSUs.

I somehow missed this comment Sphere, sorry.
I actually had to do a full recap on this board as well as a clean when I got it. Did the trick nicely and it seems to be 100% stable, just not willing to do 112mhz for whatever reason.

You haven't said what model of Soyo board you have, or if you did I missed it?

Ok, guys so I got the TNT2 Pro card in the mail today. Looks to be in great shape, was as described. Card works boots into Windows fine, runs benchmarks etc. However.....I could have sworn that this card is supposed to be a 32MB model. It is listed as such on ebay and the model is Asus V3800/32m (TF)

However Windows, 3dMark, DXDIAG, Everest etc all detect the card as only having 16MB of ram. There are 8 ram chips, and the card is detected as 128bit, so what gives?
Is it defective? if so seems odd that it performs perfectly fine up to 16mb. No artifacting etc.

I tried three or four drivers, 6.18, 8.05, 12.41, 45.23 and the official Asus drivers from Asus website. Found here:
https://www.asus.com/supportonly/AGP-V3800%20 … pDesk_Download/

If I can figure out how to post a picture I will upload one.
For now here is the ebay listing, I think that you can still view the completed auction.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304564030599

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-09-10, 01:33:

I tried three or four drivers, 6.18, 8.05, 12.41, 45.23 and the official Asus drivers from Asus website.

With a TNT2, you might get slightly more performance with even older drivers. Try 3.68.

Of course, this may depend on which games you're playing. Newer drivers might be better optimized for later titles.

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-10, 00:25:

You haven't said what model of Soyo board you have, or if you did I missed it?

I thought I mentioned it, but perhaps not
It is a Soyo sy-5ema+

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-09-10, 03:40:

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-09-10, 01:33:

I tried three or four drivers, 6.18, 8.05, 12.41, 45.23 and the official Asus drivers from Asus website.

With a TNT2, you might get slightly more performance with even older drivers. Try 3.68.

Of course, this may depend on which games you're playing. Newer drivers might be better optimized for later titles.

Yeah I figured that the earlier ones might give better performance, though I wasn't sure quite how far back I could go for the TNT2.
Thus far the 6.x drivers and the Asus specific (also 6.x based) do seem to be performing the best in 3dmark 99 and 2k testing. But it is very marginal. But measurable.

Just trying to get a baseline, but games likely be Unreal, UT, Half Life, Soldier of Fortune, Motocross Madness, pro ably racing games like NFS3, Test Drive 5/6 to name a few.

Any suggestions on the ram size? I know that there were both 16 and 32mb sdram TnT2 Pro models made....but I was under the impression that the Asus 3800/32m models were all 32mb. I do have another Asus 3800m model but it is a M64 model, it does show as 32mb in the same PC.....

I realize that less vram at lower resolutions likely won't make much difference in actual performance, but I still find it irritating. Clock's seem to be in line with a TnT2 Pro as well 143/166 according to Everest.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-09-10, 03:42:

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-10, 00:25:

You haven't said what model of Soyo board you have, or if you did I missed it?

I thought I mentioned it, but perhaps not
It is a Soyo sy-5ema+

In the OP you mention a Tekram board. You later mentioned a Soyo, but I was confused when you were talking about jumpers and I thought maybe you had the AT version since I never mess with the jumpers on mine - the FSB is set with a DIP switch. The jumpers on my 5EMA are set so the RAM is synchronous with the FSB so no need to change them, especially since I have PC133 for it. Though I'm sure that as expensive as RAM was in 1998/9 the ability to downclock the RAM so you could run your PC66 was a necessary and good feature.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-09-10, 03:53:

Yeah I figured that the earlier ones might give better performance, though I wasn't sure quite how far back I could go for the TNT2.

On Vogonsdrivers, the supported cards are usually listed in the description, but you can also check manually by looking at the relevant .inf file after downloading the driver archive. Since your card is a TNT2 Pro, I'm not sure if 2.08 will work with it, but 3.68 certainly will.

Just trying to get a baseline, but games likely be Unreal, UT, Half Life, Soldier of Fortune, Motocross Madness, pro ably racing games like NFS3, Test Drive 5/6 to name a few.

Rule of thumb, you want your graphics card driver to be 6 months newer than the game that you're playing, in case the manufacturer added some optimizations for it.

Any suggestions on the ram size?

No idea, sorry. Maybe Asus made a 16 MB version for certain markets or something.

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-10, 04:11:

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-09-10, 03:42:

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-10, 00:25:

You haven't said what model of Soyo board you have, or if you did I missed it?

I thought I mentioned it, but perhaps not
It is a Soyo sy-5ema+

In the OP you mention a Tekram board. You later mentioned a Soyo, but I was confused when you were talking about jumpers and I thought maybe you had the AT version since I never mess with the jumpers on mine - the FSB is set with a DIP switch. The jumpers on my 5EMA are set so the RAM is synchronous with the FSB so no need to change them, especially since I have PC133 for it. Though I'm sure that as expensive as RAM was in 1998/9 the ability to downclock the RAM so you could run your PC66 was a necessary and good feature.

Yes I am sorry about that. I have three builds and three threads going at once, and kind of muddied the waters. This thread was originally about my K6-2+ build with a Tekram VIA MVP3 board and nVidia video cards. But I also have a K6-3+ build with that Soyo board and currently a Voodoo 3 3000. I guess I got things a little muddled up. Sorry about that.

But hey! Thanks so much because using those settings on the DIP block and leaving the jumpers as I had them totally got 112mhz FSB working! Thank you so much. I knew I was making things harder than necessary. I did try shooting for 6x112 but no dice, even at 2.3v. So back to 2.2 and 5.5x112 and currently running a few benchmarks. Thank you again.

Edit: no much tweaking but at 5.5x112
3dmark 99 with Voodoo 3 3k
3480 - 3dMarks
8380 - CPU Mark's
800x600x16

3DMark 2000
1024x768x16
1715

Not much tweaking. Voodoo not overclocked
Didn't mess with memory bank interleaving
Just a single run each.

I do have a GeForce 2 GTS 32mb on the way. Will see what it does when it gets here.