esher wrote on 2022-10-07, 18:19:

It's not MT, as it's not based on LA through GM map. I's definitely early version of SC/GS, alpha version 😀

Yes, obviously. 😀 I was just thinking of the appearance and the presence of 1/4" jacks.

As for alpha version, as I said, it seems to have come out AFTER the SC-55, which casts doubt on that theory. The device that is closest to an "alpha" SC/GS would appear to be the Roland MV-30 (1990 release).

Spikey wrote on 2022-10-07, 18:30:

esher wrote on 2022-10-07, 18:19:

It's not MT, as it's not based on LA through GM map. I's definitely early version of SC/GS, alpha version 😀

Yes, obviously. 😀 I was just thinking of the appearance and the presence of 1/4" jacks.

As for alpha version, as I said, it seems to have come out AFTER the SC-55, which casts doubt on that theory. The device that is closest to an "alpha" SC/GS would appear to be the Roland MV-30 (1990 release).

It is not known when it was started in project. This may be release of dead end specification, may be because pcb and other production were already produced year ago, we don't know. FG-1000 is just an artifact in line

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tunes common to it and the FG-1000:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731/ww … pic,2457.0.html

The audio links are all still valid; just remove the "archive.org" content prefixes. Or, here's an alternate version where the links can just be clicked in-line:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731id_ … pic,2457.0.html

As mentioned, the FG-10/1000 are GS devices, but are not entirely SC-55 compatible, as concerns the lack of most variation tones and drumkits. Instead, the FG devices use a specific, "commercial" variant of the GS daughterboard found in contemporaneous Roland products - the RLP-3079 - unique in its inclusion of voice/vocal samples that are used by the radio calisthenics MIDI sequences.

RLP-3037, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, JW-50

RLP-3079, C-TYPE GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: FG-10/1000

RLP-3170, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, GPPC-F, GPPC-N

RLP-3305, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: GPPC-FA, GPPC-NA

Cloudschatze wrote on 2022-10-07, 20:34:

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tun […]
Show full quote

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tunes common to it and the FG-1000:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731/ww … pic,2457.0.html

The audio links are all still valid; just remove the "archive.org" content prefixes. Or, here's an alternate version where the links can just be clicked in-line:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731id_ … pic,2457.0.html

As mentioned, the FG-10/1000 are GS devices, but are not entirely SC-55 compatible, as concerns the lack of most variation tones and drumkits. Instead, the FG devices use a specific, "commercial" variant of the GS daughterboard found in contemporaneous Roland products - the RLP-3079 - unique in its inclusion of voice/vocal samples that are used by the radio calisthenics MIDI sequences.

RLP-3037, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, JW-50

RLP-3079, C-TYPE GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: FG-10/1000

RLP-3170, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, GPPC-F, GPPC-N

RLP-3305, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: GPPC-FA, GPPC-NA

I think it's a bit confusing and unnecessary to consider a device with all of 9 GS tones "GS compatible", to be honest (and what GS data can it even play back?). Although I take your and esher's point about considering it from a 1990/91 perspective rather than a 2022 perspective.

Still, to me these early devices are GM devices with a few early GS tones, regardless of the daughterboards present or not present - unless of course as you say in the old QS thread, the wave data and patches are in there but undocumented (which to be fair is a very Roland thing to do).

Thanks very much for the info, and for the FG-10 info, which I'd remembered some of, but forgotten the name of the unit!

The RM-8000 is interesting and new to me. From the specs, it lists 8+drum LA channels (same as MT-32/related), and 6 PCM channels. Sounds kind of like a CM-500 or something? No patch list is given, so it seems unclear if it can be used as a MIDI synth, although one would *assume* so.

For fun, here's an eBay image of the remote for the unit:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GuwAAOSwhwpdJxUH/s-l1600.jpg

Cloudschatze wrote on 2022-10-07, 20:34:

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tun […]
Show full quote

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tunes common to it and the FG-1000:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731/ww … pic,2457.0.html

The audio links are all still valid; just remove the "archive.org" content prefixes. Or, here's an alternate version where the links can just be clicked in-line:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731id_ … pic,2457.0.html

As mentioned, the FG-10/1000 are GS devices, but are not entirely SC-55 compatible, as concerns the lack of most variation tones and drumkits. Instead, the FG devices use a specific, "commercial" variant of the GS daughterboard found in contemporaneous Roland products - the RLP-3079 - unique in its inclusion of voice/vocal samples that are used by the radio calisthenics MIDI sequences.

RLP-3037, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, JW-50

RLP-3079, C-TYPE GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: FG-10/1000

RLP-3170, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, GPPC-F, GPPC-N

RLP-3305, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: GPPC-FA, GPPC-NA

Thanks for your recordings, on the wonderful queststudios I miss so much. 😀 I don't know if I read that thread back then, but I probably had only just purchased my first MT-32 around that time, and was mostly a lurker. Recognizing your amazing find, for what it was, would've been unlikely.

Edit: And that buzzer is exactly what it should be. 😉 There's actually quite a lot of songs I recognize, probably mostly from the SC-8850's demosongs-included CD. You're right, they are all programmed with more skill than usual, at least for playback on Roland GS synths.

The SCC-1 is in my 486, MIDI files played back using DOSMid. These came out near but not quite clipping the -10dBV line level setting on the old E-MU 1616m.
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/yf1laqnkxyqz0/scc1

Cloudschatze wrote on 2022-10-07, 20:34:

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tunes common to it and the FG-1000:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731/ww … pic,2457.0.html

Thanks for the info 😀
Made a small video of some of the sounds of the FG-1000 if someone like to compair the sounds to any of the Sound Canvas'es https://youtu.be/ENLRxRFmmzQ

oldinternet wrote on 2022-12-03, 18:38:

Cloudschatze wrote on 2022-10-07, 20:34:

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tunes common to it and the FG-1000:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731/ww … pic,2457.0.html

Thanks for the info 😀
Made a small video of some of the sounds of the FG-1000 if someone like to compair the sounds to any of the Sound Canvas'es https://youtu.be/ENLRxRFmmzQ

Nice, thanks for that! It really looks like a professional rack mount module, but none of the recorded sounds seem too different from the sound canvases I have (the SC-33, SC-8850, SC-8820, SC-55mkII, & CM-500), at least to my ears. That might not mean much, though. 😉 I probably can't blame youtube compression either, with my poor comparison history of hearing no unwanted noise on the supposedly noisy MT-32 (old).

Absolutely (and unsurprisingly) it sounds like a SC-55, although of course patch wise it's really a SC-7 with fewer drumkits, plus a few GS tones, plus one extra sound effect, "Buzzer". Thanks for sharing the video, oldinternet! Would love to hear one for all tones, and would love to hear it playing some MIDI files too.

As for hearing Jaffa, the only time you can really hear MT-32 noise is when a MT-32 recording is normalised without noise reduction - something you rarely hear in casual operation of the unit, perhaps with the exception of speakers turned up loud and MT-32 powered on outside of a game or while no music is playing.

Back to the SCCP itself, I apologise for not pursuing it more vigorously this year. It's been a pretty bad year for me with chronic illness, lack of energy, and my partner's health. The project isn't my current priority (that would be working with my synths and recording Sierra music), but I do plan on pursuing it further in the coming years. If someone wants to take over or assist that's fine, otherwise I'll pursuit it when I can.

Spikey wrote on 2022-12-14, 18:56:

As for hearing Jaffa, the only time you can really hear MT-32 noise is when a MT-32 recording is normalised without noise reduction - something you rarely hear in casual operation of the unit, perhaps with the exception of speakers turned up loud and MT-32 powered on outside of a game or while no music is playing.

Sorry for taking this off-topic, but I turned my UA-1610's monitor out level up all the way, while I have my speakers amplified so that 1/4 of the monitor out dial is used for comfortable normalized computer audio. This is way louder than what normalized audio processing would amplify, assuming music levels are being normalized too. I then turned on each of these various LA units, one at a time. Here they are, ordered from my perceived loudest to quietest while powered on and not playing music (non-captured or scientific):

CM-64 sounds like a 60 Hz hum to me (pretty quiet while switching off).
CM-500 (mode B) has a loud high pink noise hiss as if an LP record before music begins playing (pretty quiet while switching off).
MT-32 (Old) has a quiet high pitch airy note like a noisy power supply's whine (with a loud pop while switching off).
CM-32L has an almost imperceptible soft high airy sound (pretty quiet while switching off)

Spikey wrote on 2022-12-14, 18:56:

Back to the SCCP itself, I apologise for not pursuing it more vigorously this year. It's been a pretty bad year for me with chronic illness, lack of energy, and my partner's health. The project isn't my current priority (that would be working with my synths and recording Sierra music), but I do plan on pursuing it further in the coming years. If someone wants to take over or assist that's fine, otherwise I'll pursuit it when I can.

Back on topic - I'd have to reread your google doc to see if I'd have enough time to attempt your monumental project, so I can't promise that, but it is tempting to imagine I could help, before looking at it. On the other hand, waiting is not an issue for me. I'm sorry to hear about the health issues. Lack of energy isn't surprising with enduring psychological harm from COVID-19 separation, which in many cases has caused burnout. I'm sure I have my fair share of that too (although I am a solitary person), but it's affecting my computer repair workload more than the MIDI-related projects that I enjoy as an escape. And, yes, the music capturing phase, too, would have been a huge task for me (with so many devices) if it hadn't been paired with the passive task of listening to enjoyable music while on the intriguing quest to discover device variance.

Just found this thread, and would like to find some time to contribute some recordings. Is there a list of particular midis or should I use whichever I would like? I have SC-155, SC-55mkII, SC-88 ST Pro, SC-880, and an SC-8850 to throw in for comparisons. I also have a Serdaco Yucatan Fx which has the Dream branded Roland GS chip in it which might be interesting to have in the comparison. It seems have sound banks similar to the SC-55.

Delphius wrote on 2023-03-30, 05:17:

Just found this thread, and would like to find some time to contribute some recordings. Is there a list of particular midis or should I use whichever I would like? I have SC-155, SC-55mkII, SC-88 ST Pro, SC-880, and an SC-8850 to throw in for comparisons. I also have a Serdaco Yucatan Fx which has the Dream branded Roland GS chip in it which might be interesting to have in the comparison. It seems have sound banks similar to the SC-55.

I'm not sure about the Serdaco Yucatan Fx, but Spikey should be the one to say so. I'm sure the others are exactly what he'd be interested in.

This is the post about what to submit:

Spikey wrote on 2022-04-23, 03:44:

OK, the files are finally here. […]
Show full quote

OK, the files are finally here.

The files chosen are all Roland files from the 90s, "All Stars", "Cool" and "Elise". The three were chosen because they display GS characteristics and a variety of tempos (All Stars), problem cases like Bass and Lead* (Cool), and solo piano for easier audio quality/sound comparison (Elise). They also all contain an embedded GS Reset at the start.
* Bass and Lead is an example of a synth instrument that sounds different from the 55 to later models due to different waveforms used. (If I've somehow got this wrong, and Bass and Lead is not one of them that uses different waveforms, let me know please! 😀 )

They can be found here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c0Lo2RjKDF1C … iew?usp=sharing

Instructions:
1. Please record the MIDI files digitally from an audio interface/sound card at either 24 or 32-bits/96 kHz sample rate - or if not possible, let me know and we will work out a nearest-neighbour compromise - with no editing of the MIDI data, no changed settings on your module, no additional processing enabled on your audio interface or sound card, and no processing of the digital recording (I will be doing all of that).
2. Also, please include at least 5 seconds of recorded silence before the MIDI plays, and 5 after the MIDI stops playing (and audio/reverb/etc can no longer be heard).
3. Please ensure your Sound Canvas is set for maximum volume output, unless the recording clips, and then preferably limit it on your audio interface/sound card as necessary. Volume changes on the Sound Canvas itself is to be used as a *last resort* and only to the amount that stops the resulting recording clipping, as any reduction in volume reduces the dynamic range of the synth when recorded. If you have had to use any of these changes (i.e., any scenario other than full volume output of your Sound Canvas or full volume input on your audio interface), please include that information.
4. Finally, upload the unprocessed file as a lossless WAV/FLAC file (zipping/etc is advisable) to a file sharing host that has no ads or restrictions, such as Google Drive, Mega, or Mediafire, and send it to me via this forum, or via email at agillett@NOSPAMsierramusiccentral.com (delete the NOSPAM part).

Note: If there's a 4th file you want to record, or any additional files that were designed for Sound Canvas playback (designed for either SC-55, SC-88, SC-88Pro, SC-8820 or SC-8850, and variations), feel free to record them and I will use some under an "Extra" or similar section. (Of course, extras need to have a GS reset at the start, and you need to specify reverb/chorus settings used, what MIDI device recorded from, etc. I'll also need the MIDI file for inspection as well as the digital recordings recorded to specifications above.)

OK, hopefully we can finally get moving. Sorry for the delays everyone, I was sick and then had exams, and then got sick again. Ah, fun times. 😉

NOTE: The project document will hopefully be updated this week.

Have fun recording, and thanks for joining in!

Recently acquired a Roland SC-7.

PCB photo here: https://imgur.com/Rw36CdN
More detailed photos of the chips: https://imgur.com/a/LrmayY9

Only lifted one bit of PCB metal removing the RF shield!

Edit: DAC is NEC UPD6376.

Finally got around to doing this today. Unfortunately, even though I specifically got my 96k / 24bit interface out to simplify my signal chain and record 96k, after recording all of them turns out it was still at 44.1k / 24bit. Doh! I will try to get to recording them again but I decided it was worth posting the raw files. It might be interesting to have them for comparison in 96k.

I kept the gain structure the same for all of the RCA style devices, hoping to get a comparison on gain levels between all of them as well as eliminate any added differences of preamp coloration. The only one that I had to gain down was the SC-880 as it uses unbalanced 1/4" and was much hotter. When I record again, I might decide to use my countryman DI's to make sure I am getting proper ohm's / unbalanced conversion to +4dbu.

Also, some of them have a little extra space between songs as I was distracted. I was going to edit them but decided to keep them raw.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yAPh5 … Mhq?usp=sharing

Roland SC-50 board photos: https://imgur.com/a/3okOeYN
DAC: NEC D63200

So I don't forget, SC-55ST has SC-55 UPD6379 DAC, despite having SC-55mkII tones.

I went through a lot of midi cards on my life. Indeed Roland seems to be one of the best GM devices. Then I stumbled through the original QFG4 soundtrack Orchester. So amazing. The SCC-1 is a joke against that original soundtrack.
Don’t get me wrong I am a real fan of all that Roland devices but hearing this… whow. I wish someone would implement this in the original sci resources.

https://aubreyhodges.bandcamp.com/album/quest … cial-soundtrack

PS. I have to say that Qfg4 was one if not that game for me. Besides that I assume that the Sierra crew paid very much attention to the music in this game

I know it was briefly discussed in my own thread on the MT-120, but I'm happy to make any recordings of it if wanted 😀

Thanks! Yeah, that would be good, just make sure to follow the guidelines - I'm adding them to the OP now.

I will try and update the project document sometime soon, and split the device info off into an Excel spreadsheet.

jaffa225man wrote on 2022-12-09, 04:59:

oldinternet wrote on 2022-12-03, 18:38:

Cloudschatze wrote on 2022-10-07, 20:34:

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tunes common to it and the FG-1000:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731/ww … pic,2457.0.html

Thanks for the info 😀
Made a small video of some of the sounds of the FG-1000 if someone like to compair the sounds to any of the Sound Canvas'es https://youtu.be/ENLRxRFmmzQ

Nice, thanks for that! It really looks like a professional rack mount module, but none of the recorded sounds seem too different from the sound canvases I have (the SC-33, SC-8850, SC-8820, SC-55mkII, & CM-500), at least to my ears. That might not mean much, though. 😉 I probably can't blame youtube compression either, with my poor comparison history of hearing no unwanted noise on the supposedly noisy MT-32 (old).

Sorry for late reply, forgot i posted 😀 remember the waveforms maybe sounded a little cropped or shortend but not sure, sold the device a year ago.