VOGONS


First post, by nathanieltolbert

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Hello everyone! Sorry to be a bother again. I just wanted to go over a recent thing I got and the issues I am having. I have tried some different things to see if I could rectify it without posting, but I have been unsuccessful.

I purchase a ASUS K7M motherboard, with a G400 video card, and an Athlon Slot A 700MHz processor. The seller couldn't test them so I know there is a chance that a part might be defective, but they sold it for a very good price as it was untested. I remembered reading that this board can be a bit tetchy, but I thought for the price it would be fun to try troubleshooting. The seller even added some ram to the package, even though it wasn't listed, which I thought was very nice.

A week passes and it arrives. I set it up on my open test bench. I check the PSU I have and make sure all of the voltages are correct. For some reason I get this faint memory from back when I had one originally that the Slot A cpus were really finicky about power supplies. I check all of the connections reseat the CPU, make sure both sides latch. All seems good add the 256MB stick of RAM PC-100 with no issues or difficulties. I install the nice Matrox G400 card that came with it and then plug in my speaker and power switch. I press the button to power on. Fans all spring to life. The CPU fan doesn't sound like the bearing is going out. That's good.

No beeps. That's strange. Okay, pull the GPU and the RAM. Try again. Strange, 1 long 3 short beeps. Check AmiBIOS beep codes. Don't see this one. Must be the one for no RAM detected. Reseat RAM in Slot 0 on the board. Try again. Now I get 8 short beeps. Can't read/write to graphics memory. Okay! That's not finding the graphics card. Of course, because it's not plugged in. I turn off the system plug the Graphics card in, and double check all of the boards jumpers are set properly. Everything looks good. Press the switch. 8 beeps. Uh oh. Maybe the Gpu has died? Insert tested and working AGP card Rage IIC AGP. 8 beeps. Okay, maybe something is wrong with the AGP slot? I know they can be finicky. Plug in S3 Trio 64V+ PCI card. 8 Beeps. Huh, strange. Okay grab Cirrus Logic CL-GD5426 (I think?) ISA graphics card and plug it in. 8 Beeps. Okay, that's really strange.

I then hop online and start looking for others having the same issue. I find multiple listings in multiple forums but none of them say whether the person resolved the issue. There is a post here from 2017 but I didn't see a resolution for it either, but it did have a very handy link to the AMIBIOS post beeps, which confirmed the ones I found were the same. I look more, trying to dig deeper. I start looking to see if there were posts from back in the day. Can't seem to find anything aside of the fact that everyone comments that the AGP solution on this board is not an effective solution. That's fine, I have a Voodoo 3 3500TV that I planned to use once I get the adapter to VGA so I don't have to use the break out cable. I contact the seller and let them know what I'm encountering. They responded within an hour with common troubleshooting tips. A couple of which I didn't think to do. No good. So at this point I think maybe the G400 is bad, and something has happened to my ISA and PCI cards since the last time I used them. I test them all individually in an old 440BX board. They all work perfectly. I test the ram. 2 sticks. One 256MB stick and the other was 32MB (which is great because it conforms to the standards for my old Pentium 1 motherboards, so I can use it there perfectly). Memtest shows them to be 100% fine. I let the seller know I tried all of their tips and the problem is still unresolved. I removed the battery, and I also used a flathead screwdriver to bridge the two points to clear the CMOS settings as there aren't any pins on the board. Held it for 30 seconds. I replaced the battery with a brand new one. No change.

The seller contacts me with a link to a forum post where they were able to resolve the issue. Turns out they fixed it by unseating and reseating the BIOS chip. Okay. I use my tool kit and remove the chip without bending any of the legs. The socket makes some squeaky sounds. Check the socket and the legs. The legs are shiny and don't appear to have any corrosion on them. I check to see if there are any bent legs that might have caused the issue. Everything 'looks' good. I carefully line up the chip with the socket and reseat it. I'm not great at checking continuity, but it seems like the points on the bottom of the board and the tops of the legs of the chip show continuity? Okay, now that's all done, let's try again. Push the power button. 8 beeps. no post.

At this point I don't know if there's something wrong with the BIOS chip, the motherboard, or if the CPU is knackered. I unfortunately don't have any other Slot A boards, although one is on the way. I don't ,know when it will get here. But since this seems to be a common issue, I had hoped I had just missed all of the forum posts that fixed it. I grew up with this hardware and I still can't resolve the issue. I feel more and more stupid every day at this point. I wonder if I'm somehow being slipped lead at this point that I cannot resolve this issue. But I have gotten so much excellent help here that I thought that someone here undoubtedly knows a solution. The seller was super kind, even though it was listed as untested sold as parts, they offered a refund. I don't want that. I want to get the board working. I'm positive it can be done. I just have to know what I need to fix. Also, I think it was mentioned before, but there is a specific recommended EEPROM reader/writer that I should look into getting. If anyone can give me the name of that as well I would be very appreciative. I can't help but wonder if replacing the BIOS chip would resolve the issue, such that maybe there was some form of corruption to the chip. But I am only grasping as straws. Any help that can be provided is extremely appreciated.

Thank you,

Nathan

Reply 1 of 60, by nathanieltolbert

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Also, I should note. I can't really tell anything about the BIOS socket. It looks shiny? But I don't know what the contacts inside the plastic body look like. I thought about using contact cleaner on the socket, but I didn't want to do that without confirming I wasn't going to make things worse.

Reply 2 of 60, by Nexxen

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I had slot cpus issues in the past. Try to move the cpu to see if it is a bad cpu contact in its slot.

PC#1 Pentium 233 MMX - 98SE
PC#2 PIII-1Ghz - 98SE/W2K

Reply 3 of 60, by nathanieltolbert

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I will try that and let you know what it does.

Reply 4 of 60, by Horun

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nathanieltolbert wrote on 2022-10-20, 19:47:

Also, I think it was mentioned before, but there is a specific recommended EEPROM reader/writer that I should look into getting. If anyone can give me the name of that as well I would be very appreciative.

Genuine XGecu TL866-II Plus w/13 adapters was good and has been replaced by the XGecu T48 (TL866-3G) w/11 adapters and is good.
Cost is about $80 on ebay search seller: xgecupro and has 100% Positive feedback.
Do not get a clone or else you won't be able to update the free software (they add more IC's every month or two and update the software).

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 5 of 60, by nathanieltolbert

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CPU has no movement or give. I am noticing that the left tab is not 100% latched down now. I unseated and attempted to reseat the cpu, but it didn't change what I am seeing.

Reply 6 of 60, by nathanieltolbert

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Horun wrote on 2022-10-21, 00:39:

Genuine XGecu TL866-II Plus w/13 adapters was good and has been replaced by the XGecu T48 (TL866-3G) w/11 adapters and is good.
Cost is about $80 on ebay search seller: xgecupro and has 100% Positive feedback.
Do not get a clone or else you won't be able to update the free software (they add more IC's every month or two and update the software).

So either of those will work? I found one listed by the xgecupro that has 13 adapters, is that okay? I know so little about this, but I need to learn. I have a JETkey BIOS chip here that is bad, and I need to look to options since I can't find a replacement and I have no Keyboard BIOS chips.

Reply 7 of 60, by rasz_pl

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Horun wrote on 2022-10-21, 00:39:
Genuine XGecu TL866-II Plus w/13 adapters was good and has been replaced by the XGecu T48 (TL866-3G) w/11 adapters and is good. […]
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nathanieltolbert wrote on 2022-10-20, 19:47:

Also, I think it was mentioned before, but there is a specific recommended EEPROM reader/writer that I should look into getting. If anyone can give me the name of that as well I would be very appreciative.

Genuine XGecu TL866-II Plus w/13 adapters was good and has been replaced by the XGecu T48 (TL866-3G) w/11 adapters and is good.
Cost is about $80 on ebay search seller: xgecupro and has 100% Positive feedback.
Do not get a clone or else you won't be able to update the free software (they add more IC's every month or two and update the software).

clones are half the cost, and average non professional electronics service center user will _never ever_ need any of the chips added in updates.

nathanieltolbert wrote on 2022-10-21, 02:05:

So either of those will work? I found one listed by the xgecupro that has 13 adapters, is that okay? I know so little about this, but I need to learn. I have a JETkey BIOS chip here that is bad, and I need to look to options since I can't find a replacement and I have no Keyboard BIOS chips.

for PC bios flashing you might only need $1 PLCC32 if you venture into more modern stuff. You wont need any brand new models, any clone of 866 will work just fine. $50 max.

>JETkey BIOS chip here that is bad, and I need to look to options since I can't find a replacement and I have no Keyboard BIOS chips.

those are not bios chips, and they arent programmable. Those are full microcontrollers with fixed firmware

>I am noticing that the left tab is not 100% latched down now. I unseated and attempted to reseat the cpu, but it didn't change what I am seeing.

well thats not good. Is the motherboard laying flat on hard surface when you insert CPU? take a flashlight and loupe and look into the slot if there arent any pins bend inside blocking cpu from fully inserting

Reproductions
https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module for AT&T Globalyst
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 memory board
RE
Zenith Data Systems (ZDS) ZBIOS 'MFM-300 Monitor'

Reply 8 of 60, by Horun

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rasz_pl wrote on 2022-10-21, 02:33:
Horun wrote on 2022-10-21, 00:39:
Genuine XGecu TL866-II Plus w/13 adapters was good and has been replaced by the XGecu T48 (TL866-3G) w/11 adapters and is good. […]
Show full quote
nathanieltolbert wrote on 2022-10-20, 19:47:

Also, I think it was mentioned before, but there is a specific recommended EEPROM reader/writer that I should look into getting. If anyone can give me the name of that as well I would be very appreciative.

Genuine XGecu TL866-II Plus w/13 adapters was good and has been replaced by the XGecu T48 (TL866-3G) w/11 adapters and is good.
Cost is about $80 on ebay search seller: xgecupro and has 100% Positive feedback.
Do not get a clone or else you won't be able to update the free software (they add more IC's every month or two and update the software).

clones are half the cost, and average non professional electronics service center user will _never ever_ need any of the chips added in updates.

I gave a good valid recommendation and pointers to it, as he asked. All you said was "clones are half the cost" without pointing to one that may be just as good.
Not a very good answer to his question but what do I know ;p

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 9 of 60, by nathanieltolbert

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rasz_pl wrote on 2022-10-21, 02:33:

those are not bios chips, and they arent programmable. Those are full microcontrollers with fixed firmware

>I am noticing that the left tab is not 100% latched down now. I unseated and attempted to reseat the cpu, but it didn't change what I am seeing.

well thats not good. Is the motherboard laying flat on hard surface when you insert CPU? take a flashlight and loupe and look into the slot if there arent any pins bend inside blocking cpu from fully inserting

Okay, the JETKey says Fastest Keyboard BIOS on the chip. So I thought maybe it would be something I could burn like any other BIOS chip. I don't know what to do about that, as I cannot seem to find any JETKey dip40 chips for sale anywhere. I don't know if it can be replaced with a different keyboard controller chip. In regards to the slot, it's good. I checked the pins inside of the slot and they are all fine, none are bent or damaged. I removed the CPU and checked the latches. Turns out even outside of the rails, the left tab doesn't pop all the way out. I have the board on a flat surface, and I checked the CPU when inserted and it appears to be 100% level across the top of the cpu. Against my reservations I used QD electronics cleaner on the BIOS socket just in case that is the issue. The 8 beeps persists. I still am not sure if it's the CPU or the motherboard that is the issue.

Reply 10 of 60, by nathanieltolbert

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I am hesitant to use the QD electronics cleaner on the Slot A connector. I don't recall where I heard it but I recall somewhere that it creates a film on the pins which can be an issue, and I already have enough of those.

Reply 11 of 60, by majestyk

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nathanieltolbert wrote on 2022-10-20, 19:47:

I check the PSU I have and make sure all of the voltages are correct.

This doesn´t mean the voltages are correct under heavy load or at startup and that the voltages are "clean" = without ripple.
I would recommend trying a known good (new) PSU, because PSU problems can cause all kinds of - weird - issues.

And better be careful with cleaners at high density connectors that carry high frequencies. There are special "tuner" cleaners that evaporate without leaving any residues for this.
Otherwise better don´t clean at all or use some 99,9% IPA and a soft brush.

One more question: Where´s that 40-pin Jetkey keyboard controller on the ASUS K7M Rev.1.04??

http://www.amoretro.de/wp-content/uploads/asu … motherboard.jpg

Last edited by majestyk on 2022-10-21, 05:54. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 12 of 60, by nathanieltolbert

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majestyk wrote on 2022-10-21, 05:39:
This doesn´t mean the voltages are correct under heavy load or at startup and that the voltages are "clean" = without ripple. I […]
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This doesn´t mean the voltages are correct under heavy load or at startup and that the voltages are "clean" = without ripple.
I would recommend trying a known good (new) PSU, because PSU problems can cause all kinds of - weird - issues.

And better be careful with cleaners at high density connectors that carry high frequencies. There are special "tuner" cleaners for that that evaporate without leaving any residues.
Otherwise better don´t clean at all or use some 99,9% IPA and a soft brush.

Sorry when I say I checked the PSU I meant I used a PSU tester to check it. Unfortunately the ripple test on my tester is not great, but the PG test is pretty accurate. The power supply I am using is a newer PSU as it is, A seasonic PSU that I got as a test bench psu a year or two ago, 750W 80+ Gold. Testing the rails once power is applied to the board is not something that I have any experience with. I have watched people on videos test different points on the systems, but I don't believe I have all of the tools to do such. I don't use old PSUs on my retro stuff unless I can help it. There are a couple of places that still make PSUs with -5V so if I need that I will buy it, but there is also a company called KDM on ebay that sells older style PSUs with high Amperage 3.3 and 5 volt rails. I have tried a few of their psus including their AT one and they all work pretty good for me. Although as is normal, YMMV. Thank you for the heads up on the cpu connector. That could have been catastrophic.

Reply 13 of 60, by majestyk

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This Seasonic PSU should cause no issues at all. I think we can safely rule out the PSU as a troublemaker here.

There are several voltage regulators on the mainboard so how´s the situation concerning electrolytics here? What brands did ASUS use?

Reply 14 of 60, by rasz_pl

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At least on P2B P3B and A7V A7V133 Asus was using great caps.

I would understand AGP cards not working, but together with PCI and ISA is rather weird. 5V supply missing? only if AGP slot 3.3/1.5 rails would also be generated from 5V and there was some fusing
quite amazingly boardview available https://www.xwfix.com/asus-motherboard-k7m-1-06-boardview/
5V goes straight from psu to PCI/ISA
3V is shared with ram so if ram is passing then 3V is ok

testing CPU in another board would be nice. According to http://mrbios.com/techsupport/award/postcodes.htm bios does cache test very late

Horun wrote on 2022-10-21, 03:21:

Genuine XGecu TL866-II Plus w/13 adapters was good and has been replaced by the XGecu T48 (TL866-3G) w/11 adapters
Cost is about $80 on ebay search seller: xgecupro and has 100% Positive feedback.
Do not get a clone or else you won't be able to update the free software (they add more IC's every month or two and update the software).

I marked in your post all the things OP should not care about at all 😀

Last edited by rasz_pl on 2022-10-21, 16:20. Edited 1 time in total.

Reproductions
https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module for AT&T Globalyst
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 memory board
RE
Zenith Data Systems (ZDS) ZBIOS 'MFM-300 Monitor'

Reply 15 of 60, by Nexxen

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nathanieltolbert wrote on 2022-10-21, 01:57:

CPU has no movement or give. I am noticing that the left tab is not 100% latched down now. I unseated and attempted to reseat the cpu, but it didn't change what I am seeing.

Try removing the plastic brackets and give a good clean to the contacts. See if moving the cpu makes any difference. It's annoying but I had this thing twice!
Same for ram slots.
Check if any debris got stuck in other slots.

edit: do you have a post analyzer card? codes could help

PC#1 Pentium 233 MMX - 98SE
PC#2 PIII-1Ghz - 98SE/W2K

Reply 17 of 60, by nathanieltolbert

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Nexxen wrote on 2022-10-21, 10:00:
Try removing the plastic brackets and give a good clean to the contacts. See if moving the cpu makes any difference. It's annoyi […]
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Try removing the plastic brackets and give a good clean to the contacts. See if moving the cpu makes any difference. It's annoying but I had this thing twice!
Same for ram slots.
Check if any debris got stuck in other slots.

edit: do you have a post analyzer card? codes could help

In regards to cleaning the contacts, what should I use? I have this QD electronics cleaner, which I don't feel comfortable about. I also have 95% IPA as I do a lot of resin based 3d printing. Should I use that and a q-tip? should I be worried about leaving particulate behind while cleaning? The RAM sockets were the first thing I checked. All the pins appear to be okay, or at the very least nothing so damaged as to not work. Putting a RAM stick in each socket and booting does not change the post beeps to the 1 long 3 short that I got when I removed the RAM. Let me take some pictures and see what everyone thinks.

-Edit - The caps that I can read all read Rubycon, which I thought were supposed to be decent caps.

Reply 18 of 60, by majestyk

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Rubycons are hasslefree so electrolytics can also be ruled out - at least for now.

Go with the 95% IPA and a soft brush. To get rid of the 5% water you can use a hairdryer after cleaning the contacts.
To get really clean RAM and CPU slots it can be necessary to "rinse and repeat" the procedure a couple of times.

Reply 19 of 60, by nathanieltolbert

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I sadly don't have a post code analyzer card. I need to get one, but I just have been putting it off. I have taken several pictures of the edge connector of the CPU and then pictures of the slot for the cpu and the ram sockets. If anything looks off please let me know. I also snapped a picture of the small caps I cant read well one looks like it says HEC and the other is a yellow cap I can't see a name on easily. Both the tall black and purple caps are labeled as rubycon I hope this information helps.