TrashPanda wrote on 2022-11-15, 03:45:

lepidotós wrote on 2022-11-15, 01:30:

I'm so far winning a GF4 MX4000 PCI which is said to be on par with an original 2MX for about $17. Could be another avenue to keep in mind. Seeing as it's a really low end card for 2004, it might be easier to find as PCI than something high end as something to shove in a Dell Dimension.

I bought a GF4 MX4000 PCI recently ..got super lucky too as its one of the rare 128bit memory bus models which makes it a direct replacement for a GF4 MX440, saved me a ton of cash as PCI MX 440s tend to be expensive from the ones I have seen on eBay.

Okay, as it turns out, it was an FX 5200. I can't tell if that's better or worse, since I'm mainly interested in using this machine for DOS. I mean, either is probably more than overkill for DOS, but I suppose the DX9 support is appreciated?

Glad the MX 4000's working out for you! I see another PCI 4000, but it'd listed at $40. It's a 128MB card, though, is that indicative of bus width?

not really, number of ICs is a better indication along with googling the card model, 128mb will happily fit into a 64bit bus with only 4 ICs.

the 5200 for DOS is ok but for DX9 uhhhh you would be better off with anything else that supports DX9, I think even a sheet of cardboard would run DX9 games better than a stock 5200.

I mean, I don't think anything DX9 will even run-- it's a Pentium II 350. I guess I could get an SL35D, but that's kinda pushing it into the territory I want to be in with the Athlon project. America's Army wants a Pentium III 733.

Okay, after a quick check, the first 128-bit, PCI 4000 I see is $44. A bit more than a PCI 5500.

lepidotós wrote on 2022-11-15, 04:12:

I mean, I don't think anything DX9 will even run-- it's a Pentium II 350. I guess I could get an SL35D, but that's kinda pushing it into the territory I want to be in with the Athlon project. America's Army wants a Pentium III 733.

Okay, after a quick check, the first 128-bit, PCI 4000 I see is $44. A bit more than a PCI 5500.

The PCi 5500s out there are mostly out of china, I have one and its picky which boards it'll post in, anything before socket 370 tends to not post as the boards cant supply enough voltage via PCI, Slot 1 boards if they are late models might also work. The two early model slot 1 boards have don't like the 5500 PCI and refuse to post correctly with it, the ASUS P2B-D I have works fine with it so YMMV.

badmojo wrote:

But here's a thread I recall reading when I was having the problem with an FX5200

Only some FX cards have issues with VBE, but apparently that BIOS error is much more widespread in GeForce 7xxx series.

Riva 128 PCI is pretty good for a low end Socket 7 system. For high end TNT2 M64 would usually be enough for anything that is not K6-2 and above. For those, if you don't have access to an AGP slot then just go for Radeon VE/7000 PCI or GeForce 2 MX PCI.

Fine pitch 4 ICs is 128 bits too, there is "32" in the part number. The ones that has coarse pitch 4 ICs are 64bits.

Any, TNT2, Geforce2 or 4 in "PCI" in interest is expensive these days.

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2022-11-15, 22:48:

Any, TNT2, Geforce2 or 4 in "PCI" in interest is expensive these days.

Cheers,

True. And here's my bit of advice: if it's not cheap, don't do it. I know the appeal, I know the urge. I've been there, I've done it, and now I have a stockpile of faster PCI video cards but at the end of the day any system I built with them have been eventually torn down. Regardless of what you are going with; Socket 7, Socket 370 mATX, i810 - just don't do it. There are better ways to get there than to chase a PCI video card.

I believe I built and decomissioned around 30 systems in the last 5 years since I got into this hobby. The only two systems I have that still have a PCI card in them are my fast 486 with a Riva 128 (and that is not for 3D capabilities ut actually for decent S-Video out that I can capture) and my 1993-1995 Socket 7 Pentium 133 which has a Virge with onboard Scenic MPEG decoder, so again not for speed. All my GeForce 2 MXs, Radeons, TNT2s, TNTs, etc. are collecting dust.

Thankfully I did not overpay for any of them..

How about a cheap Voodoo Banshee PCI, managed to snag one the other day for less than 80USD..tested and working if the pics are to be believed. (Yeah I know some people here will say that even 50USD for a 3dfx card is too much, but you sometimes just have to roll with what the community sets the prices at especially for PCI 3DFX cards.)

3DFX cards only seem to increase in value, so if you see them cheap and working . .grab them.

80 USD for a banshee is cheap?..

appiah4 wrote on 2022-11-16, 06:53:

80 USD for a banshee is cheap?..

Yes when the PCI versions list for double that, actually even at 160 USD its still cheaper, looking at eBay right now for Voodoo Banshee PCI the prices are over 200 USD, agp versions are much cheaper at ~80 - 120 USD.

3DFX prices have been crazy for a while now and PCI versions for all 3d capable GPUs are even more inflated.

Honestly... if it makes it unprofitable to buy for the gold content and gives a bit more incentive to sell rather than recycle, I'm mostly okay with the higher prices. It'd be awesome if video cards were still $10, but there are silver linings.

lepidotós wrote on 2022-11-16, 10:16:

Honestly... if it makes it unprofitable to buy for the gold content and gives a bit more incentive to sell rather than recycle, I'm mostly okay with the higher prices. It'd be awesome if video cards were still $10, but there are silver linings.

Gold scrappers only cut the edge connectors off 🙁 as there is little to no gold in the other components and even most edge connectors have very little gold in them.

There are no cheap pci 3d-capable graphics cards. Especially not for a p1-133.
Some people already listed a few good pci video cards, but those arent cheap, or they dont even perform properly - especially not when paired with a p1-133.

Dont buy newer cards (tnt2 or tnt or radeon), those will be a stuttering mess with a p1-133 in dx titles.
Rage2, Rage2c, Virge, Trio3D will be a stuttering mess.

I would like to suggest the s3 savage4 as that performs very fantastically in the sub 200 mhz race according to my measures, but the pci version might or might not works properly in every motherboard.

If thats not an option, go for the matrox G200. But avoid the g400 and above.

You might go with a 3dlabs Permedia2.

3dfx cards tend to perform well, but the prices are usually higher than the equivalent matrox or s3 cards.

I rummaged around my stash of parts and I actually had a Diamond Viper V330 (Riva 128) kicking around I had no idea about. Big score haha.
With the ebay prices to find any 3d video card from that era I had thought I wouldn't be able to get anything.
So for this machine at least, It can now run glquake at 640x480 with ease. 800x600 is still playable, just not as fluent.

No idea what will happen with any other computers I come across in the future, cards are just too expensive. both video and sound are way too expensive for what they are.
But for now, I'll enjoy the OpenGL visuals and the nice sounds and static noise of the Vibra 16C.

Geri wrote on 2022-11-20, 00:01:

If thats not an option, go for the matrox G200. But avoid the g400 and above.

What's the problem with the G400 and G450 ?

p133 is so slow its not going to play much of anything outside of late dos games so I would just get a very DOS compatible card like a S3 trio 64 and a voodoo 1 on the side if you can afford it. I still see prices of voodoo 1s still affordable if youre patient. Or get the Savage 4. Because it has good compatibility.

problem with a lot of these other cards is ya they make since in your build because its so slow, but most of them have dos compatibility problems.

Warlord wrote on 2022-12-18, 01:15:

p133 is so slow its not going to play much of anything outside of late dos games so I would just get a very DOS compatible card like a S3 trio 64 and a voodoo 1 on the side if you can afford it. I still see prices of voodoo 1s still affordable if youre patient. Or get the Savage 4. Because it has good compatibility.

problem with a lot of these other cards is ya they make since in your build because its so slow, but most of them have dos compatibility problems.

Yes I believe you're correct. unfortunately for early 3d there's not much choice that's worth while outside of getting a 3dfx card.
My pc originally had a cirrus logic 5446. If I had a voodoo the 5446 would still be in the system for it's 2d dos compatibility.

If you got used to the framerates of the P133 you should appreciate any compatible 3d accelerator.

Putas wrote on 2022-12-18, 07:08:

If you got used to the framerates of the P133 you should appreciate any compatible 3d accelerator.

As long as it had good driect3d and opengl support, then yes you're right