If I needed a PCI card for a retro gaming PC without spending a ton of money on the rare stuff I would look for these. They are listed roughly in order of how fast the machine would be. For a Pentium 133 I wouldn't bother going any further than a TNT2.

Riva 128, TNT, TNT 2 (M64 or Vanta), Geforce 2 MX (original, 200, 400), Geforce4 MX 4000, Geforce FX 5200, Geforce FX 5500 (basically the same as 5200 most of the time), Geforce 6200

This doesn't affect you much, but you will often find Jaton brand Geforce cards in PCI configurations for much cheaper than other brands because they are a bit hard to tell apart. They usually have "PCI" in the model name.

In a pinch, ATI cards could be used but I don't have as much experience with them. Still, I have found these ones are at least decent. I don't know how they would run on a P133, but I'd guess that anything more than a Rage 128 would be a bad idea.

Rage Pro, Rage 128, Radeon (many variations), Radeon 9250 (neutered specs, but fast enough for some things), Radeon 9100 (basically an 8500LE... very fast PCI card for the time)

As others have mentioned, some other non-3dfx\nvidia\ATi PCI cards could be used in a pinch if you're feeling adventurous, but 3D support may be pretty bad. S3 Savage cards are probably among the better alternatives, but not real common in PCI... in fact I don't know if I have a single one, but I have several AGP variants. Matrox also has some passable options from the late 90s, but again, anything but AGP cards are pretty uncommon from my experience... except maybe the G200? Those are pretty common.

Same goes for all of the basic 3D-capable cards from Trident (eugh!), SiS, 3D Labs Permedia, and others. There may be some PCI options out there, but the vast majority are AGP.

Rendition's Verite cards were great and would be an excellent pairing, but they're about as rare as 3dfx cards these days so aren't going to be any cheaper or easier to find.

That pretty much leaves you looking for a Riva 128 or TNT of some kind if you want good compatibility.

I picked up a X1300 in PCI format . .also got a X1550 in PCI recently as well, I do have a couple of other ATI HDXXXX GPUs in PCI format but they are too new to be of much use in a PCI based build.

The X1550 in PCI format was stupidly hard to source, not many were made but if you can find one it should be a nice boost over the X1300.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-12-18, 10:34:

I picked up a X1300 in PCI format . .also got a X1550 in PCI recently as well, I do have a couple of other ATI HDXXXX GPUs in PCI format but they are too new to be of much use in a PCI based build.

The X1550 in PCI format was stupidly hard to source, not many were made but if you can find one it should be a nice boost over the X1300.

Those are nice cards but be sure anyone reading this doesn’t try to run them on 586 or older. Drivers need cpu instructions from later cpu generations.

Those are good matches for pentium 3/4 pci systems probably

I think the "best" PCI card I've seen personally was a 9400GT. I remember seeing several over the years in various lots online but I don't believe I ever actually managed to pick one up.

Assuming it worked, I would be tempted to put one in my old Gateway G6-400 and try running Windows 7 or something, just for kicks. It was the first PC that was actually mine and it had an integrated Velocity 128 which I later upgraded to a Voodoo 3 2000 PCI. It'd be funny to see what it could handle with the most RAM it could handle, an SSD and a 9400GT PCI for some DX10 action. Talk about bottlenecks... 🤔

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2022-12-18, 09:44:

If I needed a PCI card for a retro gaming PC without spending a ton of money on the rare stuff I would look for these. They are […]
Show full quote

If I needed a PCI card for a retro gaming PC without spending a ton of money on the rare stuff I would look for these. They are listed roughly in order of how fast the machine would be. For a Pentium 133 I wouldn't bother going any further than a TNT2.

Riva 128, TNT, TNT 2 (M64 or Vanta), Geforce 2 MX (original, 200, 400), Geforce4 MX 4000, Geforce FX 5200, Geforce FX 5500 (basically the same as 5200 most of the time), Geforce 6200

This doesn't affect you much, but you will often find Jaton brand Geforce cards in PCI configurations for much cheaper than other brands because they are a bit hard to tell apart. They usually have "PCI" in the model name.

In a pinch, ATI cards could be used but I don't have as much experience with them. Still, I have found these ones are at least decent. I don't know how they would run on a P133, but I'd guess that anything more than a Rage 128 would be a bad idea.

Rage Pro, Rage 128, Radeon (many variations), Radeon 9250 (neutered specs, but fast enough for some things), Radeon 9100 (basically an 8500LE... very fast PCI card for the time)

As others have mentioned, some other non-3dfx\nvidia\ATi PCI cards could be used in a pinch if you're feeling adventurous, but 3D support may be pretty bad. S3 Savage cards are probably among the better alternatives, but not real common in PCI... in fact I don't know if I have a single one, but I have several AGP variants. Matrox also has some passable options from the late 90s, but again, anything but AGP cards are pretty uncommon from my experience... except maybe the G200? Those are pretty common.

Same goes for all of the basic 3D-capable cards from Trident (eugh!), SiS, 3D Labs Permedia, and others. There may be some PCI options out there, but the vast majority are AGP.

Rendition's Verite cards were great and would be an excellent pairing, but they're about as rare as 3dfx cards these days so aren't going to be any cheaper or easier to find.

That pretty much leaves you looking for a Riva 128 or TNT of some kind if you want good compatibility.

Yes with the Riva 128 I put in there, upgrading it to anything higher specked really wouldn't change anything.
I've got a 200 and 233 pentium boards too, so maybe I'll do something with them one day. but I'll have to get more PCI cards first.

I also have a small PIII 866MHz Compaq which only has PCI. Have to try and find a good card for that. would a 5200/5500 do the trick?

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-12-18, 18:13:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-12-18, 10:34:

I picked up a X1300 in PCI format . .also got a X1550 in PCI recently as well, I do have a couple of other ATI HDXXXX GPUs in PCI format but they are too new to be of much use in a PCI based build.

The X1550 in PCI format was stupidly hard to source, not many were made but if you can find one it should be a nice boost over the X1300.

Those are nice cards but be sure anyone reading this doesn’t try to run them on 586 or older. Drivers need cpu instructions from later cpu generations.

Those are good matches for pentium 3/4 pci systems probably

Luckily they are DX9.0c only cards so they should run even on Windows98Se through the ATI WinME legacy drivers, sure they wont be any good for DOS/95 based builds but any decent S3 Virge/Voodoo1 based setup can fill that gap. So long as the CPU has MMX or 3DNow both of these cards will work, you are right about later GPUs needing better CPUs, anything above Geforce 7XXX or ATI 1XXX are DX10.0 cards and wont work at all under Win98 and even when you can get PCI versions using them as such wont be a great experience though it wont be horrible either.

BurntOutElectronics wrote on 2022-12-18, 22:33:

Yes with the Riva 128 I put in there, upgrading it to anything higher specked really wouldn't change anything. I've got a 200 a […]
Show full quote

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2022-12-18, 09:44:

If I needed a PCI card for a retro gaming PC without spending a ton of money on the rare stuff I would look for these. They are […]
Show full quote

If I needed a PCI card for a retro gaming PC without spending a ton of money on the rare stuff I would look for these. They are listed roughly in order of how fast the machine would be. For a Pentium 133 I wouldn't bother going any further than a TNT2.

Riva 128, TNT, TNT 2 (M64 or Vanta), Geforce 2 MX (original, 200, 400), Geforce4 MX 4000, Geforce FX 5200, Geforce FX 5500 (basically the same as 5200 most of the time), Geforce 6200

This doesn't affect you much, but you will often find Jaton brand Geforce cards in PCI configurations for much cheaper than other brands because they are a bit hard to tell apart. They usually have "PCI" in the model name.

In a pinch, ATI cards could be used but I don't have as much experience with them. Still, I have found these ones are at least decent. I don't know how they would run on a P133, but I'd guess that anything more than a Rage 128 would be a bad idea.

Rage Pro, Rage 128, Radeon (many variations), Radeon 9250 (neutered specs, but fast enough for some things), Radeon 9100 (basically an 8500LE... very fast PCI card for the time)

As others have mentioned, some other non-3dfx\nvidia\ATi PCI cards could be used in a pinch if you're feeling adventurous, but 3D support may be pretty bad. S3 Savage cards are probably among the better alternatives, but not real common in PCI... in fact I don't know if I have a single one, but I have several AGP variants. Matrox also has some passable options from the late 90s, but again, anything but AGP cards are pretty uncommon from my experience... except maybe the G200? Those are pretty common.

Same goes for all of the basic 3D-capable cards from Trident (eugh!), SiS, 3D Labs Permedia, and others. There may be some PCI options out there, but the vast majority are AGP.

Rendition's Verite cards were great and would be an excellent pairing, but they're about as rare as 3dfx cards these days so aren't going to be any cheaper or easier to find.

That pretty much leaves you looking for a Riva 128 or TNT of some kind if you want good compatibility.

Yes with the Riva 128 I put in there, upgrading it to anything higher specked really wouldn't change anything.
I've got a 200 and 233 pentium boards too, so maybe I'll do something with them one day. but I'll have to get more PCI cards first.

I also have a small PIII 866MHz Compaq which only has PCI. Have to try and find a good card for that. would a 5200/5500 do the trick?

A PCI 5200 or 5500 would be fine, just don't expect amazing DX9 gaming as FX series cards are well known for having poor DX9 performance, but for anything DX7/8 based they will be great little PCI cards.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-12-19, 00:17:

BurntOutElectronics wrote on 2022-12-18, 22:33:

Yes with the Riva 128 I put in there, upgrading it to anything higher specked really wouldn't change anything. I've got a 200 a […]
Show full quote

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2022-12-18, 09:44:

If I needed a PCI card for a retro gaming PC without spending a ton of money on the rare stuff I would look for these. They are […]
Show full quote

If I needed a PCI card for a retro gaming PC without spending a ton of money on the rare stuff I would look for these. They are listed roughly in order of how fast the machine would be. For a Pentium 133 I wouldn't bother going any further than a TNT2.

Riva 128, TNT, TNT 2 (M64 or Vanta), Geforce 2 MX (original, 200, 400), Geforce4 MX 4000, Geforce FX 5200, Geforce FX 5500 (basically the same as 5200 most of the time), Geforce 6200

This doesn't affect you much, but you will often find Jaton brand Geforce cards in PCI configurations for much cheaper than other brands because they are a bit hard to tell apart. They usually have "PCI" in the model name.

In a pinch, ATI cards could be used but I don't have as much experience with them. Still, I have found these ones are at least decent. I don't know how they would run on a P133, but I'd guess that anything more than a Rage 128 would be a bad idea.

Rage Pro, Rage 128, Radeon (many variations), Radeon 9250 (neutered specs, but fast enough for some things), Radeon 9100 (basically an 8500LE... very fast PCI card for the time)

As others have mentioned, some other non-3dfx\nvidia\ATi PCI cards could be used in a pinch if you're feeling adventurous, but 3D support may be pretty bad. S3 Savage cards are probably among the better alternatives, but not real common in PCI... in fact I don't know if I have a single one, but I have several AGP variants. Matrox also has some passable options from the late 90s, but again, anything but AGP cards are pretty uncommon from my experience... except maybe the G200? Those are pretty common.

Same goes for all of the basic 3D-capable cards from Trident (eugh!), SiS, 3D Labs Permedia, and others. There may be some PCI options out there, but the vast majority are AGP.

Rendition's Verite cards were great and would be an excellent pairing, but they're about as rare as 3dfx cards these days so aren't going to be any cheaper or easier to find.

That pretty much leaves you looking for a Riva 128 or TNT of some kind if you want good compatibility.

Yes with the Riva 128 I put in there, upgrading it to anything higher specked really wouldn't change anything.
I've got a 200 and 233 pentium boards too, so maybe I'll do something with them one day. but I'll have to get more PCI cards first.

I also have a small PIII 866MHz Compaq which only has PCI. Have to try and find a good card for that. would a 5200/5500 do the trick?

A PCI 5200 or 5500 would be fine, just don't expect amazing DX9 gaming as FX series cards are well known for having poor DX9 performance, but for anything DX7/8 based they will be great little PCI cards.

I can't imagine doing anything too new on it. Probably sticking to late 90's with half life, some racing games and age of empires etc.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-12-19, 00:07:

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-12-18, 18:13:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-12-18, 10:34:

I picked up a X1300 in PCI format . .also got a X1550 in PCI recently as well, I do have a couple of other ATI HDXXXX GPUs in PCI format but they are too new to be of much use in a PCI based build.

The X1550 in PCI format was stupidly hard to source, not many were made but if you can find one it should be a nice boost over the X1300.

Those are nice cards but be sure anyone reading this doesn’t try to run them on 586 or older. Drivers need cpu instructions from later cpu generations.

Those are good matches for pentium 3/4 pci systems probably

Luckily they are DX9.0c only cards so they should run even on Windows98Se through the ATI WinME legacy drivers, sure they wont be any good for DOS/95 based builds but any decent S3 Virge/Voodoo1 based setup can fill that gap. So long as the CPU has MMX or 3DNow both of these cards will work, you are right about later GPUs needing better CPUs, anything above Geforce 7XXX or ATI 1XXX are DX10.0 cards and wont work at all under Win98 and even when you can get PCI versions using them as such wont be a great experience though it wont be horrible either.

I have tried them I could not get them to work I have one Nothing 586 would work

To me these are the most important features:
- top signal quality
- wide range native drivers
- good performance and good featureset

If we talk win3x/OS2/Win9x/Amihtlon I would for a mga-g200.

For a socket 7 system, I would use a voodoo card as first choice. For a cheap/free one, you need patience and luck. And avoid ebay. Otherwise, in France, you can find them around 70€ (outside of eBay). I won't say 70€ is cheap (because depending of your budget, 70 can be a lot) but if you are in the retro hobby, you can probably manage to spare 70€.
If it's too much, then I would go for an Nvidia TNT2 or a matrox card. Both are cheap and quite available.

If it were not the socket 7/Pentium constraint, then I would go for a Quadro NVS.
Quadro NVS 280 is a "business" GPU with NV34 chip (Fx5500) but clocked a bit faster. It exists in PCI version and can be found for around 20€. It needs a DMS-59 cable and provides dual VGA or dual DVI output.

I used it in my dual PIII setup (which only have PCI/PCI-X slots) and it runs HL2 quite well in DX8 mode.

In my opinion, it's one of the cheapest and underrated PCI retro card.

there are a few using quadro nvs 280s on their socket 7 systems. I haven't had much luck myself with them though. radeon 7000, 7500, 9200, 9250 pci cards seem to be the best cards I have used. if agp, the whole 9000 lineup works pretty good. I ran a 9800 pro in my ss7 computer.

watch out for agp 1.5v though.

also not all mobos can supply enough power to the agp slot.

acl wrote on 2022-12-20, 07:49:

For a socket 7 system, I would use a voodoo card as first choice. For a cheap/free one, you need patience and luck. And avoid eb […]
Show full quote

For a socket 7 system, I would use a voodoo card as first choice. For a cheap/free one, you need patience and luck. And avoid ebay. Otherwise, in France, you can find them around 70€ (outside of eBay). I won't say 70€ is cheap (because depending of your budget, 70 can be a lot) but if you are in the retro hobby, you can probably manage to spare 70€.
If it's too much, then I would go for an Nvidia TNT2 or a matrox card. Both are cheap and quite available.

If it were not the socket 7/Pentium constraint, then I would go for a Quadro NVS.
Quadro NVS 280 is a "business" GPU with NV34 chip (Fx5500) but clocked a bit faster. It exists in PCI version and can be found for around 20€. It needs a DMS-59 cable and provides dual VGA or dual DVI output.

I used it in my dual PIII setup (which only have PCI/PCI-X slots) and it runs HL2 quite well in DX8 mode.

In my opinion, it's one of the cheapest and underrated PCI retro card.

I am wondering where the best place for getting a voodoo would be for me. It would be awesome to explore glide based games on a pentium 233MHz machine.
Might have to try a australian retro gaming group at some point.

Matrox is another assortment I'd like to try out, but never come across here. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough.

I'll definitely be keeping a saved search for the Quadro NVS 280 from now on. Should be a good choice for my AGP-less PIII Compaq.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-12-19, 14:11:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-12-19, 00:07:

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-12-18, 18:13:

Those are nice cards but be sure anyone reading this doesn’t try to run them on 586 or older. Drivers need cpu instructions from later cpu generations.

Those are good matches for pentium 3/4 pci systems probably

Luckily they are DX9.0c only cards so they should run even on Windows98Se through the ATI WinME legacy drivers, sure they wont be any good for DOS/95 based builds but any decent S3 Virge/Voodoo1 based setup can fill that gap. So long as the CPU has MMX or 3DNow both of these cards will work, you are right about later GPUs needing better CPUs, anything above Geforce 7XXX or ATI 1XXX are DX10.0 cards and wont work at all under Win98 and even when you can get PCI versions using them as such wont be a great experience though it wont be horrible either.

I have tried them I could not get them to work I have one Nothing 586 would work

Possibly the drivers themselves require SSE due to using some library for ui rendering much like Steam does.

It might be interesting to dig into it as I can’t see a reason why the cards wouldn’t work at all. Even at a basic level they should function just fine under DOS or a basic Windows driver.

ATI and AMD do weird shit with their driver interfaces instead of just a basic panel like NVidia uses.

Yes, pretty sure it is the driver.

A hacked driver would be awesome.

BurntOutElectronics wrote on 2022-12-20, 09:08:

I am wondering where the best place for getting a voodoo would be for me. It would be awesome to explore glide based games on a […]
Show full quote

acl wrote on 2022-12-20, 07:49:

For a socket 7 system, I would use a voodoo card as first choice. For a cheap/free one, you need patience and luck. And avoid eb […]
Show full quote

For a socket 7 system, I would use a voodoo card as first choice. For a cheap/free one, you need patience and luck. And avoid ebay. Otherwise, in France, you can find them around 70€ (outside of eBay). I won't say 70€ is cheap (because depending of your budget, 70 can be a lot) but if you are in the retro hobby, you can probably manage to spare 70€.
If it's too much, then I would go for an Nvidia TNT2 or a matrox card. Both are cheap and quite available.

If it were not the socket 7/Pentium constraint, then I would go for a Quadro NVS.
Quadro NVS 280 is a "business" GPU with NV34 chip (Fx5500) but clocked a bit faster. It exists in PCI version and can be found for around 20€. It needs a DMS-59 cable and provides dual VGA or dual DVI output.

I used it in my dual PIII setup (which only have PCI/PCI-X slots) and it runs HL2 quite well in DX8 mode.

In my opinion, it's one of the cheapest and underrated PCI retro card.

I am wondering where the best place for getting a voodoo would be for me. It would be awesome to explore glide based games on a pentium 233MHz machine.
Might have to try a australian retro gaming group at some point.

Matrox is another assortment I'd like to try out, but never come across here. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough.

I'll definitely be keeping a saved search for the Quadro NVS 280 from now on. Should be a good choice for my AGP-less PIII Compaq.

I recently tried out a matrox g450 on my k6-3+ 400 and got 800 3dm2000

Radeon 7500/9200 gets around 1800

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-12-19, 00:17:

A PCI 5200 or 5500 would be fine, just don't expect amazing DX9 gaming as FX series cards are well known for having poor DX9 performance, but for anything DX7/8 based they will be great little PCI cards.

I recently checked the market on ebay. 5500 are way harder to get at a good price than 5200. You should keep in mind that a 5500 is just a 5200 with a slightly higher clock, and a good 5200 Ultra should beat every 5500 card. The memory bus width (5200 cards exist with 64-bit or 128-bit memory bus) is a much more series concern than the small clock difference. If you should opt for a Geforce 5 series PCI card (which is way overpowered for a Pentium 1 system anyway...), paying a premium for getting a 128-bit card instead of a 64-bit card is much more worth it than paying a premium for getting a 5500 instead of a 5200.

If the OP want's to use the Pentium 1 system for acutal gaming, I would support the suggestion for a Voodoo card (supports Glide games) or a TNT or TNT2 M64 (for DirectX games) instead of a Geforce 5 series card. A game that can make use of the extra performance of a GeForce 256 or newer card will most likely not run anywhere near an acceptable speed on a Pentium 1 system. Possibly the TnL engine of the GeForce can offload the CPU for geometry calculation even in old DirectX versions, in which case a GeForce 2MX might be sensible. Anything above that is definitely overkill.

PCI FX 5500 cards from China are dirt cheap and easy to get on Evilbay, much easier than any PCI variant of the FX5200 Ultra 64 or 128bit. The only issue with the China PCI FX5500 cards is that they can be very picky about which older PCI boards they will post in, this is mostly due to the older boards simply not having a robust enough PCI voltage supply to feed the FX5500.

A PCI 128bit FX5200 Ultra shouldn't have any power issues with older boards but again they are stupidly expensive since the sellers do know that they are a sought after model, so grabbing a dirt cheap 64bit version might be the only option if you are unwilling to pay that premium.

If I wanted a 233MMX Pentium 1 system for myself then I would source a PCI TnT 1 or PCI TnT2 M64 and a Voodoo1 or 2 . .both Voodoo cards are horribly expensive still so neither is a great option if on a budget. I have a TnT2 Pro / Voodoo2 SLI 333 P2 rig myself and its a really solid retro gaming setup, I would use the Geforce 256 DDR I have but as you said even a 333 P2 cant feed that card fast enough to make it worth using over the TnT2 Pro.

A PCI Geforce2 MX400 is also a good alternative to the TnT2.

BurntOutElectronics wrote on 2022-12-18, 22:33:

I also have a small PIII 866MHz Compaq which only has PCI. Have to try and find a good card for that. would a 5200/5500 do the trick?

I have a Deskpro EN 1GHz that I upgraded with a PCI GeForce 4 MX440 and it runs really well. Also tried a Banshee and a Matrox G200, but both of those were slower than the i815 integrated graphics.

devius wrote on 2022-12-21, 21:54:

BurntOutElectronics wrote on 2022-12-18, 22:33:

I also have a small PIII 866MHz Compaq which only has PCI. Have to try and find a good card for that. would a 5200/5500 do the trick?

I have a Deskpro EN 1GHz that I upgraded with a PCI GeForce 4 MX440 and it runs really well. Also tried a Banshee and a Matrox G200, but both of those were slower than the i815 integrated graphics.

I have the same PC and upgraded mine to a Radeon 9250 PCI. 😄

Mine has a weird flaky onboard IDE controller that spazzes out when more than one IDE device is connected though, so I am using a PCI IDE/ATA controller in it..

devius wrote on 2022-12-21, 21:54:

BurntOutElectronics wrote on 2022-12-18, 22:33:

I also have a small PIII 866MHz Compaq which only has PCI. Have to try and find a good card for that. would a 5200/5500 do the trick?

I have a Deskpro EN 1GHz that I upgraded with a PCI GeForce 4 MX440 and it runs really well. Also tried a Banshee and a Matrox G200, but both of those were slower than the i815 integrated graphics.

Not surprising really, the Banshee is a cut down Voodoo2 with a 2d Core, the G200 is even worse being the much older card and neither is suited for anything other than DX6 gaming at low resolution and colour depth.