GeForce 4 Ti cards are overall very compatible with DOS and Win9x games. Solid choice, though probably bottlenecked on this system. VooDoo2 as Glide accelerator makes sense as well.
You can use a passive DVI-HDMI adaptor on GF4Ti with most monitors. The V2 is VGA only, meaning you'll need an active converter if your screen doesn't have a VGA input.

The PSU should be enough but you may want to keep an eye on the voltages under load. Depending on regulation +5V may be low or +12V could be high.

Doornkaat wrote on 2023-02-04, 10:12:

GeForce 4 Ti cards are overall very compatible with DOS and Win9x games. Solid choice, though probably bottlenecked on this system. VooDoo2 as Glide accelerator makes sense as well.
You can use a passive DVI-HDMI adaptor on GF4Ti with most monitors. The V2 is VGA only, meaning you'll need an active converter if your screen doesn't have a VGA input.

The PSU should be enough but you may want to keep an eye on the voltages under load. Depending on regulation +5V may be low or +12V could be high.

Thanks for your input.

Can a voodoo 2 not be connected to a G4 Ti via its VGA input? I see G4s with both VGA and DVI connectors?

Edit: seems I confused things, the Voodoo card is doing the output and the "2d" card has to be connected to the voodoo... damn.

d3vilsadvocate wrote on 2023-02-04, 09:32:

I'm going down the rabbit hole: after a bit of research I bought an Asus P2B-D 440BX board with a P3 Tualatin 1Ghz preinstalled and 3x256MB RAM

Windows 98 natively supports only 512 MB RAM. If you go higher than that, you will experience system instability.

There are third-party patches which can remove this limit, but you don't really need more than 512 MB for any game that will run on Win98.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-02-04, 12:26:

d3vilsadvocate wrote on 2023-02-04, 09:32:

I'm going down the rabbit hole: after a bit of research I bought an Asus P2B-D 440BX board with a P3 Tualatin 1Ghz preinstalled and 3x256MB RAM

Windows 98 natively supports only 512 MB RAM. If you go higher than that, you will experience system instability.

There are third-party patches which can remove this limit, but you don't really need more than 512 MB for any game that will run on Win98.

Thanks I'm already aware. Not sure why it's being sold that way. I'll "ditch" one of the 3 anyways. Might even just go with 256 in total.

d3vilsadvocate wrote on 2023-02-04, 13:35:

[...]

Thanks I'm already aware. Not sure why it's being sold that way. I'll "ditch" one of the 3 anyways. Might even just go with 256 in total.

It's a dual-CPU board. Any SMP-capable OS (Linux, WinNT, Win2k/XP etc) is also very much capable of using 768MB of RAM.

d3vilsadvocate wrote on 2023-02-04, 09:32:

...I'm struggling with my GPU purchase. On one hand, I'd like to get a Voodoo...

...Also I'm wondering if I could then output the signal via DVI to my current monitor (with an HDMI adapter) since I don't currently have the space for a newer monitor...?

Do you have a specific game in mind for which you would like to use the Voodoo? They are expensive, and they only provide benefit for a small fraction of the great games available to you on this platform. There are two games for which I use my Voodoo card, and they also work just fine without it (although not quite as pretty). Anyway, if you decide you need one then get one, but they are wildly hyped and mostly ride the reputation that they earned by being the first actual good 3D accelerator cards after several crappy attempts by other companies. The ones that do not need another main GPU (ie the Banshee and Voodoo3 series onward) actually do not have very good compatibility in DOS with games that do not explicitly support the card. That is true for the majority of ATi GPUs, too, btw. S3 cards had awesome compatibility, but offer nowhere near the level of performance that you want.

As for the best GPU for a 1GHz Pentium 3 build, for me that is quite an easy choice. You want a Geforce 3 or 3Ti series card. All nVidia Geforce-series graphics cards until the Geforce6 series are ultra-compatible with DOS and all expected 3D graphics features in Windows 98 are available and work. The 3 series supports DirectX8, which is the last Win9x version. You could go with the Geforce 4800Ti for the same reasons, and it is the super-powered option, but your CPU will likely bottleneck the hell out of it. It'll be expensive, too. But basically get any GF3, GF3Ti, or GF4Ti series AGP card and you are golden.
-- If I only had ONE computer, it would definitely, without a doubt have the best Geforce4Ti-series card that I can afford at the time of purchase. Even the lowest, the 4200, is quite a powerhouse.

As for DVI, DOS does not always get along with native DVI output from a video card. You can get an an external analog-digital converter to convert the VGA output of a Geforce card to DVI if that is what your monitor requires. You can get cheap ones on Amazon that work great.

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-02-05, 02:22:

The ones that do not need another main GPU (ie the Banshee and Voodoo3 series onward) actually do not have very good compatibility in DOS with games that do not explicitly support the card.

What are you basing that on? The Voodoo 3 is known for having excellent DOS compatibility unless you're talking about 3D accelerated DOS games... in which case, S3 Virge is beyond terrible, so I don't think that's what you're referring to. I believe Banshees are also pretty solid DOS 2D cards overall.

3dfx cards will also generally have better 2D image quality than most other cards from the time too. I use S3 Trio and Virge cards all the time for testing, but the picture quality tends to be pretty "meh", where as any 3dfx based card tends to be very crisp all the way up to it's maximum resolution.

Anyway... not trying to argue for or against any particular hardware in the OP's system, just curious as to how you came to the conclusion that 2D+3D 3dfx cards are bad for DOS as I have never heard that before, except for maybe Voodoo Rush models with Alliance 2D chips.

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-02-05, 02:22:

d3vilsadvocate wrote on 2023-02-04, 09:32:

...I'm struggling with my GPU purchase. On one hand, I'd like to get a Voodoo...

...Also I'm wondering if I could then output the signal via DVI to my current monitor (with an HDMI adapter) since I don't currently have the space for a newer monitor...?

Do you have a specific game in mind for which you would like to use the Voodoo? They are expensive, and they only provide benefit ...

I think this is sensible advice, thank you. I did in fact order a Geforce 4 Ti yesterday, it seems like a good option. It has the benefit of having DVI out, so digital signal.

I will consider Voodoos later on if the need arises or if I can have them cheaply. But I dread the VGA output. Not sure I wanna invest in an upscaler or something like that as well...
Can you recommend one that you've used yourself that provides solid image quality?

d3vilsadvocate, please tell me more about the monitor that you have decided to use here. I would like to know what the monitor's native resolution is, which inputs it has available, and if you need to have other devices connected to this monitor at the same time as your old-PC.

You are probably not going to want or need a scaler.

If your monitor only has digital inputs, you will probably want to have a way to turn VGA into DVI/HDMI. You do not need to spend lots of money to get this done decently. This product works great:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07121Y1Z3?linkCode … fs_mixed_d_asin

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-05, 07:26:

What are you basing that on? The Voodoo 3 is known for having excellent DOS compatibility unless you're talking about 3D acceler […]
Show full quote

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-02-05, 02:22:

The ones that do not need another main GPU (ie the Banshee and Voodoo3 series onward) actually do not have very good compatibility in DOS with games that do not explicitly support the card.

What are you basing that on? The Voodoo 3 is known for having excellent DOS compatibility unless you're talking about 3D accelerated DOS games... in which case, S3 Virge is beyond terrible, so I don't think that's what you're referring to. I believe Banshees are also pretty solid DOS 2D cards overall.

3dfx cards will also generally have better 2D image quality than most other cards from the time too. I use S3 Trio and Virge cards all the time for testing, but the picture quality tends to be pretty "meh", where as any 3dfx based card tends to be very crisp all the way up to it's maximum resolution.

Anyway... not trying to argue for or against any particular hardware in the OP's system, just curious as to how you came to the conclusion that 2D+3D 3dfx cards are bad for DOS as I have never heard that before, except for maybe Voodoo Rush models with Alliance 2D chips.

I never suggested that he choose an S3 card, I was mentioning the other options available, their merits, and how I came to the conclusion that I did. Which was to get the Geforce. I don't have access to the old chart, and I don't have all of the equipment or time to test everything on my own, but when I was buying GPUs I do remember that the chart reported several of my favorite games as having issues with the 3DFX 2D-enabled cards. I was never trying to paint those cards as a trash-tier option. I probably shouldn't have mentioned them in the same breath as ATi!

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-02-05, 19:18:

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-05, 07:26:

What are you basing that on? The Voodoo 3 is known for having excellent DOS compatibility unless you're talking about 3D acceler […]
Show full quote

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-02-05, 02:22:

The ones that do not need another main GPU (ie the Banshee and Voodoo3 series onward) actually do not have very good compatibility in DOS with games that do not explicitly support the card.

What are you basing that on? The Voodoo 3 is known for having excellent DOS compatibility unless you're talking about 3D accelerated DOS games... in which case, S3 Virge is beyond terrible, so I don't think that's what you're referring to. I believe Banshees are also pretty solid DOS 2D cards overall.

3dfx cards will also generally have better 2D image quality than most other cards from the time too. I use S3 Trio and Virge cards all the time for testing, but the picture quality tends to be pretty "meh", where as any 3dfx based card tends to be very crisp all the way up to it's maximum resolution.

Anyway... not trying to argue for or against any particular hardware in the OP's system, just curious as to how you came to the conclusion that 2D+3D 3dfx cards are bad for DOS as I have never heard that before, except for maybe Voodoo Rush models with Alliance 2D chips.

I never suggested that he choose an S3 card, I was mentioning the other options available, their merits, and how I came to the conclusion that I did. Which was to get the Geforce. I don't have access to the old chart, and I don't have all of the equipment or time to test everything on my own, but when I was buying GPUs I do remember that the chart reported several of my favorite games as having issues with the 3DFX 2D-enabled cards. I was never trying to paint those cards as a trash-tier option. I probably shouldn't have mentioned them in the same breath as ATi!

I agree completely with your recommendation to just go with a Geforce of some sort, and I wasn't suggesting that you were recommending that he use an S3 card... I just mentioned S3 because you did. Sounds like we'd both recommend the same thing though in his case. 😀

I just had never heard anyone say that the Voodoo 3 and Banshee had poor DOS compatibility and was curious as to how you came to that. No big deal. 😀

Also, here's a DOS compatibility chart that comes up fairly often.
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/
It has some great info on it, but it's definitely best to use it only as a guideline to find a card that is known to work properly in a specific game at a specific resolution, like you said. Some people treat it as a kind of benchmark to find the card with the most green boxes... but truthfully, most people will not be playing 90% of those games in those specific situations, and there are other issues not mentioned on the chart that should be taken into account as well, like overall 2D image quality or other less common game bugs\artifacts. Thankfully, nvidia cards from that time period are extremely well rounded for DOS and Windows compatibility. And with Glide wrappers being a thing, I don't think there are many situations where a genuine 3dfx card would give a better experience than a Geforce 4 Ti.

That link started timing out for me a couple of years ago. It's still not loading.

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-02-05, 22:28:

That link started timing out for me a couple of years ago. It's still not loading.

Working fine here. Ah, internet...

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-05, 22:40:

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-02-05, 22:28:

That link started timing out for me a couple of years ago. It's still not loading.

Working fine here. Ah, internet...

Do you have a way to convert it to an offline format? I miss having it as a general reference. He lists Keen4 and Jazz and those are both deal-breaker must-haves for me to consider a video card. So that makes the chart very useful for my own needs. And there is some other good stuff on there like SFA2.

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-02-05, 23:16:

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-05, 22:40:

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-02-05, 22:28:

That link started timing out for me a couple of years ago. It's still not loading.

Working fine here. Ah, internet...

Do you have a way to convert it to an offline format? I miss having it as a general reference. He lists Keen4 and Jazz and those are both deal-breaker must-haves for me to consider a video card. So that makes the chart very useful for my own needs. And there is some other good stuff on there like SFA2.

Are you using a strict content filtering DNS or something? The link should be working.

How about Gona's main site?
https://gona.mactar.hu/

Also, my browser says some parts of the page aren't secure. Maybe your browser settings are preventing it from loading. It isn't my website so I don't really want to upload a copy of it without permission. You may be able to just google DOS PCI AGP compatibility chart to find it mirrored elsewhere.

Maybe the translated version works? 😀
https://gona-mactar-hu.translate.goog/DOS_TES … uto&_x_tr_tl=en

However, judging from the table I would recommend any nvidia card, too. But also because I had a TNT, TNT2 and GF2 myself back then and can't remember having any major compatibility problems. But I was more interested in demos than games.

TOMMY_THE_DOG wrote on 2023-02-05, 19:06:

d3vilsadvocate, please tell me more about the monitor that you have decided to use here. I would like to know what the monitor' […]
Show full quote

d3vilsadvocate, please tell me more about the monitor that you have decided to use here. I would like to know what the monitor's native resolution is, which inputs it has available, and if you need to have other devices connected to this monitor at the same time as your old-PC.

You are probably not going to want or need a scaler.

If your monitor only has digital inputs, you will probably want to have a way to turn VGA into DVI/HDMI. You do not need to spend lots of money to get this done decently. This product works great:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07121Y1Z3?linkCode … fs_mixed_d_asin

Thanks for that link

It‘s a 1440p monitor with 165hz, IPS, gsync etc. Only has DP and HDMI in (1 each…)

I‘ll get your device first before wasting any more money on an upscaler.