asdf53 wrote on 2023-09-03, 12:07:

Can you press "H" to open the help screen in sjgplay? The help screen also contains some info about the CD (drive letter and CD […]
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Can you press "H" to open the help screen in sjgplay? The help screen also contains some info about the CD (drive letter and CD ID number). If this is missing, it would mean that it could not detect your CD drive. Edit: Sorry, I have now read that help screen does not work for you.

What is the output of "DEVICE=vide-cdd.sys " in your config.sys? Press F8 to bring up the Windows 98 start menu at boot, then choose "Confirmation" mode. I don't remember what it is called exactly, but this mode allows you to step through the lines in config.sys and see possible error messages.

Can you list the directory contents of a normal CD-ROM with "dir"?

You could also try another DOS CD driver, oakcdrom.sys is another popular one. I found it here: https://archive.org/details/dosdrivers
And you could try different versions of the VIA DOS drivers, available here: https://archive.org/details/via_dos_audio (I used version 1.11).

Thanks a lot! Really, man, you are saving my life with all of this!
I will try later if it will work, because now i am a bit busy. Thanks again, and thanks to all the people that helped 😀

EDIT: I can list the directory contents of a CD-ROM with "dir".

Ok, i've tried to do everything you suggested.
I installed older drivers of VIA DOS (1.11), i installed VIASBCFG and played a bit with settings, i changed the config.sys to vide-cdd.sys, because oakcdrom didn't seemed to work, and... It still doesn't work.
This appears in the boot, when i start the PC:

I rose the Line and CD audio levels, but still i can't hear nothing.
Also i've tried to play a bit with step-by-step confirmation, and this is the result:
https://streamable.com/qdn48p
At some point it crashes, and it seems to be linked to keyboard or what is after. vide-cdd.sys seems to work fine.

So in normal boot mode it boots into DOS, but in confirmation mode it crashes after loading the keyboard command? I don't understand this part, it should make no difference.

The fact that the CD player crashes should still be a hint that something about your CD drive is not working properly. Can you try a different CD player and see what happens? Try this one: https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/fr … g-html/cdp.html

Usage should be: "cdp.com /D:mscd001"

If that also does not work, I would suggest trying some other CD-ROM drivers, as this seems to be a common error source with CD audio. What brand is your CD drive? Try to find one that was made by the manufacturer. Do you have another CD drive you can try?
I would try at least two or three other CD drivers and then test with the DOS CD players to see if it makes any difference.

Also, to install older versions of the VIA sound driver, you should manually remove the old VIA commands from autoexec.bat before. When I install version 1.11 it does not load VIAUDIO.COM, but you still have it in your autoexec.bat. I remember playing around with different versions of the driver before, and although the differences seem to be very small, I did not get any sound output with version 1.20 and 2.20, so this could be another source of problems. Before trying CD audio, make sure that sound effects are working in games to confirm that you are using a working version.

asdf53 wrote on 2023-09-03, 16:51:

So in normal boot mode it boots into DOS, but in confirmation mode it crashes after loading the keyboard command? I don't understand this part, it should make no difference.

Maybe i should try to make a log with it. Bootlog, so i can show you where's the problem, because it first i didn't do it.

The fact that the CD player crashes should still be a hint that something about your CD drive is not working properly. Can you try a different CD player and see what happens? Try this one: https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/fr … g-html/cdp.html

Usage should be: "cdp.com /D:mscd001"

If that also does not work, I would suggest trying some other CD-ROM drivers, as this seems to be a common error source with CD audio. What brand is your CD drive? Try to find one that was made by the manufacturer. Do you have another CD drive you can try?

Here's the model of the CD drive. It's an HP, so i think it should work with generic drivers if i'm not wrong.

Also, to install older versions of the VIA sound driver, you should manually remove the old VIA commands from autoexec.bat before. When I install version 1.11 it does not load VIAUDIO.COM, but you still have it in your autoexec.bat. I remember playing around with different versions of the driver before, and although the differences seem to be very small, I did not get any sound output with version 1.20 and 2.20, so this could be another source of problems. Before trying CD audio, make sure that sound effects are working in games to confirm that you are using a working version.

I've added viaudio.com manually, but considering that i've installed SB pro configuration files, it's not needed, i will remove it.

Your CD drive seems to be very new (2007), is that a DVD drive?
I found this post from another vogons user who mentioned problems with DOS CD audio and newer CD drives:
Re: Which is the best and most memory efficient CD-driver?

He suggested using "MTMCDAI.SYS", can you download and try that one?

Here are some other CD drivers you can try: https://www.mdgx.com/newtip1.htm#CDROM4

Before you try different CD drivers, make sure that your VIA sound effects are currently working by loading a game. It could be that version 1.11 does not work with your chipset, it is the best working version for me, but maybe not for your newer system.

asdf53 wrote on 2023-09-03, 17:12:

Your CD drive seems to be very new (2007), is that a DVD drive? I found this post from another vogons user who mentioned problem […]
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Your CD drive seems to be very new (2007), is that a DVD drive?
I found this post from another vogons user who mentioned problems with DOS CD audio and newer CD drives:
Re: Which is the best and most memory efficient CD-driver?

He suggested using "MTMCDAI.SYS", can you download and try that one?

Here are some other CD drivers you can try: https://www.mdgx.com/newtip1.htm#CDROM4

Before you try different CD drivers, make sure that your VIA sound effects are currently working by loading a game. It could be that version 1.11 does not work with your chipset, it is the best working version for me, but maybe not for your newer system.

It's a DVD drive, i checked right now and there's a DVD-ROM symbol.
I will try that sys that you have mentioned, but i'm not sure at this point if it will work.
Also, the audio works. In Windows 98 the audio it's made through Win95 drivers, but on DOS it is VIA DOS 1.1, and it works.

Ok, i've tested the MTMCDAI.SYS, and it doesn't seem to work in any way.
I think the CD reader it's just too much new for DOS CD Audio. I need to retrieve an older one or something.

EDIT:

Judging by the site, the drivers shouldn't work, because the audio chip has SB emulation... Or should it work? For now i don't think so, because reading this:

My CD reader isn't listed on it.

This message is meant for when you connect the CD-ROM drive to the IDE header of an old ISA sound card. But this does not apply to your situation, your drive is directly connected to the motherboard IDE connector.

I found out that this TS-H492 drive is actually made by Toshiba. The Toshiba MS-DOS driver is available here, you could try that:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130511071423/ht … hdocs/atapi.exe

And here is a different one, it seems to be made for Toshiba notebooks, but they mention it also works for DVD drives: https://support.dynabook.com/support/viewCont … ontentId=106086

What about the DOS audio CD players, did you try the other one? Do they both crash? Do they behave differently when you use another CD driver in config.sys?

asdf53 wrote on 2023-09-04, 02:48:

This message is meant for when you connect the CD-ROM drive to the IDE header of an old ISA sound card. But this does not apply to your situation, your drive is directly connected to the motherboard IDE connector.

It seems that we still have a possibility.

I found out that this TS-H492 drive is actually made by Toshiba. The Toshiba MS-DOS driver is available here, you could try that:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130511071423/ht … hdocs/atapi.exe

So that's why it didn't worked with those drivers. If you read it says "most Toshiba", but mine seems out of it. I will try this driver but i see it is an .exe. So, does it auto-install the sys file, or does it has a complete different procedure?

And here is a different one, it seems to be made for Toshiba notebooks, but they mention it also works for DVD drives: https://support.dynabook.com/support/viewCont … ontentId=106086
What about the DOS audio CD players, did you try the other one? Do they both crash? Do they behave differently when you use another CD driver in config.sys?

I still have to try TEAC driver, but for now the situation is this:
-OAK doesn't work
-Vide doesn't either
-MTMCDAI same destiny.

Also, it seems that my CMOS doesn't work anymore.

It is a self-extracting .exe archive that contains the .sys driver, just run it under DOS.

I also found the manual for this drive, and it mentions a DOS driver that comes on a driver CD that was sold with the drive. It will be very hard to find this exact driver CD, but it is worth a try to check out similar driver CDs from that time, because it is reasonable to assume that they used the same DOS driver for a wide range of models.

For example, here is the DOS driver from a similar drive from 2007: https://ia903409.us.archive.org/view_archive. … VD%20Writer.iso (SSCDROM.sys).

This driver is a lot newer than the previous ones (2004), and your drive was first sold in 2004, so it is definitely worth a try.

Do not be confused because it is for a Samsung drive, "Toshiba Samsung Storage Technology" (TSST) was a joint venture for manufacturing CD drives from 2004-2016. Toshiba TS-H492 is the same as SH-M522C by Samsung, and they share the same drivers.

asdf53 wrote on 2023-09-04, 07:22:

It is a self-extracting .exe archive that contains the .sys driver, just run it under DOS. […]
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It is a self-extracting .exe archive that contains the .sys driver, just run it under DOS.

I also found the manual for this drive, and it mentions a DOS driver that comes on a driver CD that was sold with the drive. It will be very hard to find this exact driver CD, but it is worth a try to check out similar driver CDs from that time, because it is reasonable to assume that they used the same DOS driver for a wide range of models.

For example, here is the DOS driver from a similar drive from 2007: https://ia903409.us.archive.org/view_archive. … VD%20Writer.iso (SSCDROM.sys).

This driver is a lot newer than the previous ones (2004), and your drive was first sold in 2004, so it is definitely worth a try.

Do not be confused because it is for a Samsung drive, "Toshiba Samsung Storage Technology" (TSST) was a joint venture for manufacturing CD drives from 2004-2016. Toshiba TS-H492 is the same as SH-M522C by Samsung, and they share the same drivers.

Ok, i've tried both this and the Toshiba's ones, but all of them don't work. I think that it needs its suitable driver which can't be found anywhere.
For now i'm gonna leave it like this, because... It's strange but i wanted CD music in DOS for only one game called Angst:Rahz's Revenge, and considering that i throttled the pc back and forth with all reboots to read new drivers, and sometimes it even crashed, i think it's not worth it.
It wouldn't be a problem, because in Win98 you can play music and have game at the same time, but Angst crashes on win98 at some point, so... If it's only for that one i think MP3 player in ears + game it's more suitable.
At the end i've deleted all the sys files that i've used (oakcdrom, vide-cdd etc.) and removed the SBCFG parameter from autoexec, because the PC was getting a bit more slow.

Maybe the only solution it's to find a suitable CD player, but the good ones are kind of expensive on EBAY.

That's really nice of you that you don't want to torture the poor PC any longer, haha. I too think it deserves a break. The main problem is, to solve these kinds of problems, you need at least two pieces of hardware to cross-check. It's good to have two motherboards, two sound cards, two CD drives and so on. This way, it is much easier to isolate the issue by switching out the parts and see which one is responsible.

If you ever come across a cheap CD drive from 1997-2001 then try it. These are in my opinion the best and most compatible, very old or new ones can have strange compatibility issues. I don't know about prices in Italy, it seems hardware is a little bit harder to find, but here in Germany, I see a lot of them for sale for 1€.

asdf53 wrote on 2023-09-04, 12:36:

That's really nice of you that you don't want to torture the poor PC any longer, haha. I too think it deserves a break. The main problem is, to solve these kinds of problems, you need at least two pieces of hardware to cross-check. It's good to have two motherboards, two sound cards, two CD drives and so on. This way, it is much easier to isolate the issue by switching out the parts and see which one is responsible.

If you ever come across a cheap CD drive from 1997-2001 then try it. These are in my opinion the best and most compatible, very old or new ones can have strange compatibility issues. I don't know about prices in Italy, it seems hardware is a little bit harder to find, but here in Germany, I see a lot of them for sale for 1€.

Sadly here in Italy, especially older ones on Ebay tend to cost 30-35 euros, and at flea market they tend to have same prices i think.
There are these two, which seem interesting, especially the one (ACER) with those change-track buttons. That one looks very cool, even if it's a 2002 hardware.
Hitachi
ACER
Anyway, there's another problem, but this one is not mine.
I have a friend which has also installed Win98, and he's trying to put DOS drivers. He has a VIA board, but the drivers that i've suggested him (the sames that i've used) don't work, and it seems that he installed at first Win98 drivers, so now he's stuck on VDM mode:

This is the board schematics, which is very, very different from mine:

This board uses a VT8233 southbridge, this is a newer chip that does not support DOS soundblaster emulation anymore. Only VT82C686A, VT82C686B and VT8231 southbridges support it. You have to run DOS games from Windows or buy a PCI sound card with DOS support (for example: Soundblaster Live, ESS SOLO-1).

asdf53 wrote on 2023-09-04, 18:18:

This board uses a VT8233 southbridge, this is a newer chip that does not support DOS soundblaster emulation anymore. Only VT82C686A, VT82C686B and VT8231 southbridges support it. You have to run DOS games from Windows or buy a PCI sound card with DOS support (for example: Soundblaster Live, ESS SOLO-1).

Understood.
Anyway, may i ask you something?
I'm interested to buy that Acer-Aopen disk drive. Should it work with DOS, or not?

It's impossible to say for sure that the CD drive is to blame, there is so much unexpected errors with old hardware, it could also be the motherboard. I'd say it's a 50% chance that the CD drive is at fault. It would feel stupid to spend 30€ on a CD drive and then find out that it still doesn't work.

If you really can't find a good deal in Italy, you could also look in Germany or Austria, hardware is extremely cheap here.

These are the biggest websites for used goods:
Germany: https://www.kleinanzeigen.de
Austria: https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen

You can search for "cd laufwerk" (cd drive) and then order results by cheapest price, you should find a lot. You could ask a seller if he ships to Italy, the shipping cost is around 10€ with "Hermes Paket".

For example, this one from Austria: https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verka … -ide-703777723/
Someone is selling this IDE drive for 2€, new and unused. And there are many more such offers, sometimes free or 1-5€.

asdf53 wrote on 2023-09-05, 05:21:

It's impossible to say for sure that the CD drive is to blame, there is so much unexpected errors with old hardware, it could al […]
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It's impossible to say for sure that the CD drive is to blame, there is so much unexpected errors with old hardware, it could also be the motherboard. I'd say it's a 50% chance that the CD drive is at fault. It would feel stupid to spend 30€ on a CD drive and then find out that it still doesn't work.

If you really can't find a good deal in Italy, you could also look in Germany or Austria, hardware is extremely cheap here.

These are the biggest websites for used goods:
Germany: https://www.kleinanzeigen.de
Austria: https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen

You can search for "cd laufwerk" (cd drive) and then order results by cheapest price, you should find a lot. You could ask a seller if he ships to Italy, the shipping cost is around 10€ with "Hermes Paket".

For example, this one from Austria: https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verka … -ide-703777723/
Someone is selling this IDE drive for 2€, new and unused. And there are many more such offers, sometimes free or 1-5€.

Thanks a lot! I will try to check 😀

asdf53 wrote on 2023-09-05, 05:21:

It's impossible to say for sure that the CD drive is to blame, there is so much unexpected errors with old hardware, it could al […]
Show full quote

It's impossible to say for sure that the CD drive is to blame, there is so much unexpected errors with old hardware, it could also be the motherboard. I'd say it's a 50% chance that the CD drive is at fault. It would feel stupid to spend 30€ on a CD drive and then find out that it still doesn't work.

If you really can't find a good deal in Italy, you could also look in Germany or Austria, hardware is extremely cheap here.

These are the biggest websites for used goods:
Germany: https://www.kleinanzeigen.de
Austria: https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen

You can search for "cd laufwerk" (cd drive) and then order results by cheapest price, you should find a lot. You could ask a seller if he ships to Italy, the shipping cost is around 10€ with "Hermes Paket".

For example, this one from Austria: https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verka … -ide-703777723/
Someone is selling this IDE drive for 2€, new and unused. And there are many more such offers, sometimes free or 1-5€.

I've checked the drive. They are new, but the production date it's 2003. Could it work?
EDIT: I've checked also this one.
The long CD player seems old and very cool, but the dates are blurry, so i'm trying to ask for info to the vendor.

Sorry, I cannot promise you anything. The offer that I posted is just an example, it's the first one I found. I think 2003 could be OK, but something from 1999-2001 is probably a bit safer. And date is just one indicator, another one would be the manufacturer. About this particular one, all I know is that LiteOn was a cheap brand, but no idea about compatibility.

The "too new" drive is my guess because I have read about this problem, for example here's a forum thread (in German) from someone who got no CD audio with several drives from 2006/2007, and it started working when he used one from 2000: https://www.dosforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=10116

You could also look for a DVD drive from 2000/2001, they are a little harder to find, but they would also allow you to play newer games which is a nice bonus. Good for a Windows 98/XP retro machine.

asdf53 wrote on 2023-09-05, 15:18:

Sorry, I cannot promise you anything. The offer that I posted is just an example, it's the first one I found. I think 2003 could be OK, but something from 1999-2001 is probably a bit safer. And date is just one indicator, another one would be the manufacturer. About this particular one, all I know is that LiteOn was a cheap brand, but no idea about compatibility.

The "too new" drive is my guess because I have read about this problem, for example here's a forum thread (in German) from someone who got no CD audio with several drives from 2006/2007, and it started working when he used one from 2000: https://www.dosforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=10116

Thanks, but... What about the long one i've found? It looks weird, what kind of CD player is that?