Not just you 😀
Not sure what you mean with "Current prices on vintage PC games" but I believe you have not seen the prices on popular 80s non-x86 hardware like the Amigas and these Ataris?
Prices of all hardware has gone haywire. I am fortunate to have found/bought more or less what I want from the PC hardware I am interested in (with few exceptions) and looking around other unexplored by me platforms.
I for example am very interested in finding components and building a first-gen Alpha 21064 PC, but so far I have only a (supposedly) working CPU 😀
I don't have high hopes in finding other components like case and motherboard but am looking out..Hopefully one day I will be able to.

I still have my Commodore 64 in mint condition. Pulled it out of storage a few years ago to see if it's working, and it ran fine. Don't feel any particular desire to use it though.

The C64 was my first computer and it helped me learn the basics of programming (pun intended). But I just don't associate it with gaming, outside of playing Elite and maybe Gunship. At that point, I was much more into arcade cabinets (Double Dragon, Kung-Fu Master) and contemporary consoles (NES, Sega Mega Drive). With its limited graphics, the C64 simply felt inferior to those, especially due to some very disappointing game ports. I was also like 7 or 8 at the time, which naturally made me gravitate toward consoles and arcades.

On the other hand, all of my PC rigs have specific games tied to them which I enjoy replaying even now. Probably just personal preference though, as I know a lot of people love their C64s and happily use them to this day.

I think I've mentioned that I've got a A1200 and an A500 , I even got an original 1986 nec multisync recently which can do 15 ,24 and 31 khz that needs some calibration but should pair up nicely with the amigas.

And mean they are good systems, arguably better at platformers and side scrollers than the pc , and I've been exploring them more, but I dunno i still find myself spending the most time with my socket 7 Dos PC , I'm not sure why that is , I did grow up with windows 95 but not really with dos , but even still I mostly gravitate to 6.22 and its
command line , maybe its all the different hardware I've got hooked up to it like the MT32 and sound canvas or I find some of the quirks of the amiga off-putting like having to unhide files all the time in workbench or the fact that most games use up for jump or that most games don't allow for saving unlike pc games which do or maybe I just enjoy fighting my computer to get it to do anything.

I'll have to keep exploring the amigas though , especially since I've invested a fair bit with getting a full motorolla 060 with fpu to go with my terriblefire 1260 and whatnot.

I'd also probably advise anyone looking at anything north of a stock A500 or A600 to watch out as it gets very expensive fast , especially if you start looking into RTG or PPC amiga stuff xD.

I feel it as well...

My "biggest" pull was to explore an era I missed out on, the late 70's. I didn't get my first PC until 1981. (TI-99/4A)

So...I built my own Z80-MBC2 to explore the CP/M era, and I must say .... I love it! Also, a LOT cheaper than original hardware. 😀

Source: https://hackaday.io/project/159973-z80-mbc2-a … ew-z80-computer

It was a VERY deep rabbit hole, but a very fun one, and took weeks to complete getting it just how I wanted it. So much so I detailed it all. If you're REALLY bored, you can read all about it below. 😜

https://theclassicgeek.blogspot.com/2022/09/t … w-computer.html

download/file.php?mode=view&id=182527
download/file.php?mode=view&id=182528
download/file.php?mode=view&id=182526
download/file.php?mode=view&id=182529
download/file.php?mode=view&id=182530

@StriderTR - hot damn that’s impressive!

Regarding old non-x86 tech, yeah, I can sympathize. I have a decent collection of Amigas. I also have an Atari ST, Apple IIGS, tons of old other Apple and Mac hardware, some FM Towns stuff, the list goes on.

The cool thing is that hardware mods for these are still being created and there is a ton to tinker around with. It’s great fun. It’s…not cheap, but who cares! hehe

I'm currently resisting the urge to jump into TRS80 land, I see a lot of super nice deals here in Australia for TRS80 kit and there is a nice modding community here for it too, I already have a kitted out A1200 and have a Vic20 as well but I have never used a TRS80 machine before but since its Z80 based I doubt itll be significantly different from the old Vic20.

But im kinda at a X-Roads right now as my x86 collection is already taking up a lot of free space and I have to decide to thin it down if I want to jump into non x86 stuff.

Im guessing Ill likely start thinning out the x86 parts and only keep the bits that are rare and the builds I really enjoy using, The question then becomes do I throw the working stuff up on Evilbay or do I post some of it here as "Give Away, you pay its travel costs" to a good home type of deal.

Not sure how Vogons handles Give Away threads, are they OK with asking postage be paid ? or is that frowned upon ? (By Give Away I really do mean that, if its going to a fellow collector I m happy to just hand it over for postage costs)

demonized999 wrote on 2024-01-10, 08:35:

Not just you :) Not sure what you mean with "Current prices on vintage PC games" but I believe you have not seen the prices on p […]
Show full quote

Not just you 😀
Not sure what you mean with "Current prices on vintage PC games" but I believe you have not seen the prices on popular 80s non-x86 hardware like the Amigas and these Ataris?
Prices of all hardware has gone haywire. I am fortunate to have found/bought more or less what I want from the PC hardware I am interested in (with few exceptions) and looking around other unexplored by me platforms.
I for example am very interested in finding components and building a first-gen Alpha 21064 PC, but so far I have only a (supposedly) working CPU 😀
I don't have high hopes in finding other components like case and motherboard but am looking out..Hopefully one day I will be able to.

I never claimed a decent ST or an expanded 1200 is cheap by any means, but compared to going prices of some x86 hardware such as 3dfx and Gravis cards, buying a C64 or an unexpanded A1200 is still a fairly agreeable investment that offers a fairly novel experience.

appiah4 wrote on 2024-01-10, 11:42:

demonized999 wrote on 2024-01-10, 08:35:

Not just you :) Not sure what you mean with "Current prices on vintage PC games" but I believe you have not seen the prices on p […]
Show full quote

Not just you 😀
Not sure what you mean with "Current prices on vintage PC games" but I believe you have not seen the prices on popular 80s non-x86 hardware like the Amigas and these Ataris?
Prices of all hardware has gone haywire. I am fortunate to have found/bought more or less what I want from the PC hardware I am interested in (with few exceptions) and looking around other unexplored by me platforms.
I for example am very interested in finding components and building a first-gen Alpha 21064 PC, but so far I have only a (supposedly) working CPU 😀
I don't have high hopes in finding other components like case and motherboard but am looking out..Hopefully one day I will be able to.

I never claimed a decent ST or an expanded 1200 is cheap by any means, but compared to going prices of some x86 hardware such as 3dfx and Gravis cards, buying a C64 or an unexpanded A1200 is still a fairly agreeable investment that offers a fairly novel experience.

The alternative which some wont exactly agree with is to use something like Amiga Forever or C64 Forever, I own both and its honestly one of the best emulation packages I have used, of course you can build this package yourself if you dont mind hoisting the colors. Pretty sure you can do the same for the ST.

WinUAE honestly gives a damn fine Amiga experience if you are not into messing with real hardware and you can configure the emulation to emulate a huge range of Amiga hardware, systems and software.

The bonus is that its not as expensive as buying working Amiga hardware .. which can be shockingly expensive for some of it.

demonized999 wrote on 2024-01-10, 08:35:

Not just you :) Not sure what you mean with "Current prices on vintage PC games" but I believe you have not seen the prices on p […]
Show full quote

Not just you 😀
Not sure what you mean with "Current prices on vintage PC games" but I believe you have not seen the prices on popular 80s non-x86 hardware like the Amigas and these Ataris?
Prices of all hardware has gone haywire. I am fortunate to have found/bought more or less what I want from the PC hardware I am interested in (with few exceptions) and looking around other unexplored by me platforms.
I for example am very interested in finding components and building a first-gen Alpha 21064 PC, but so far I have only a (supposedly) working CPU 😀
I don't have high hopes in finding other components like case and motherboard but am looking out..Hopefully one day I will be able to.

I have opposite problem - beautiful PC164SX motherboard (for 400/500MHz 21164PC) with unfindable CPU 😜

Still, I have an AXPpci-33 that does have CPU that is probably my next project. Still, the main idea is non-x86 in name only as I want to make a system to test the much vaunted 'fastest way of running PC software isn't a PC' claim these things were sold with.
I also have a SparcStation 20 and a SunPC card I should get working one of these days (only supported in specific Solaris versions and of course the physical media I have isn't the right one - and no luck burning the correct one in a way the SS20 is able to boot from either), but here again it's more about making an unusual PC than anything else.

I do get 'real' non-x86 urges, but ironically I do those more with emulation. Recently I wanted to show my son how to do something simple (dare I say: BASIC) in programming and concluded that I was so rusty on anything modern that Sinclair BASIC was the only thing I was confident enough in - even after all these years. So started up a Spectrum in my browser and sure enough, 5 minutes later I could show him what I wanted. That evening I looked up real hardware, decided original stuff was too expensive for what it is, but spotted some very interesting DIY projects (Harlequin 128). No time & (physical and mental) space to do it anytime soon, but one day I'm building one 😀

The Z80-MBC2 reminds me a little bit of a TNC2.
It's a series of Z80 based radio modems, essentially. See Landolt TNC2, MFJ TNC2, PK-232..

AppleSauce wrote on 2024-01-10, 09:39:

I think I've mentioned that I've got a A1200 and an A500 , I even got an original 1986 nec multisync recently which can do 15 ,2 […]
Show full quote

I think I've mentioned that I've got a A1200 and an A500 , I even got an original 1986 nec multisync recently which can do 15 ,24 and 31 khz that needs some calibration but should pair up nicely with the amigas.

20231230_194236.jpg

And mean they are good systems, arguably better at platformers and side scrollers than the pc , and I've been exploring them more, but I dunno i still find myself spending the most time with my socket 7 Dos PC , I'm not sure why that is , I did grow up with windows 95 but not really with dos , but even still I mostly gravitate to 6.22 and its
command line , maybe its all the different hardware I've got hooked up to it like the MT32 and sound canvas or I find some of the quirks of the amiga off-putting like having to unhide files all the time in workbench or the fact that most games use up for jump or that most games don't allow for saving unlike pc games which do or maybe I just enjoy fighting my computer to get it to do anything.

I'll have to keep exploring the amigas though , especially since I've invested a fair bit with getting a full motorolla 060 with fpu to go with my terriblefire 1260 and whatnot.

20231221_215454.jpg

I'd also probably advise anyone looking at anything north of a stock A500 or A600 to watch out as it gets very expensive fast , especially if you start looking into RTG or PPC amiga stuff xD.

Amiga is a fasntastic world too, probabily the top just before the 3D PC era. Actually i have an A1200 + Blizzard 1230IV and PPC.

cloverskull wrote on 2024-01-10, 11:09:

@StriderTR - hot damn that’s impressive!

Regarding old non-x86 tech, yeah, I can sympathize. I have a decent collection of Amigas. I also have an Atari ST, Apple IIGS, tons of old other Apple and Mac hardware, some FM Towns stuff, the list goes on.

The cool thing is that hardware mods for these are still being created and there is a ton to tinker around with. It’s great fun. It’s…not cheap, but who cares! hehe

What's impressive it that I ran into no real issues with the build process of the MBC2 and uTerm boards. It took me longer to design and print the internal support structure and figure out how I wanted the front panel to look than to actually get it up and running. 😜

What's cool about it, is I actually use this build. I pull it off the shelf a lot to mess around with. The ASCII games are fun, text adventures like the ZORK games are cool to play through the way they were intended, and I keep learning more and more what this little thing is capable of. My childhood may have been powered by the 6502, but the Z80 is right up there in my list of favorites as well.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-01-10, 16:04:

The Z80-MBC2 reminds me a little bit of a TNC2.
It's a series of Z80 based radio modems, essentially. See Landolt TNC2, MFJ TNC2, PK-232..

That's the look I wanted to go for. I wanted it to look like a "modern" miniature version of something like the Altair or SWTPC, but since there were only a need for 3 buttons on the unit, it ended up looking a lot like a modem. That's a good thing for me since I've always liked that overall "boxy" aesthetic.

In terms of other "non-x86" systems, I've also been looking into picking up an 80's era BASIC computer, specifically the TI-99/4A. It holds a special place in my nostalgic heart since it was my first computer. They can be had much cheaper than many of the other systems of the era. Like old x86 parts, they are also considerably more expensive than they used to be. It's crazy what's being asked for some Commodore and Tandy computers these days.

Thankfully, I keep talking myself out of it and stick to emulation in this regard. Still, that need sent me down the path looking for modern alternatives. Hence the MBC2 and PicoMite builds I did. Though I did buy a C64 Mini on sale for $20, totally worth it! 😜

StriderTR wrote on 2024-01-10, 18:32:

Jo22 wrote on 2024-01-10, 16:04:

The Z80-MBC2 reminds me a little bit of a TNC2.
It's a series of Z80 based radio modems, essentially. See Landolt TNC2, MFJ TNC2, PK-232..

That's the look I wanted to go for. I wanted it to look like a "modern" miniature version of something like the Altair or SWTPC, but since there were only a need for 3 buttons on the unit, it ended up looking a lot like a modem. That's a good thing for me since I've always liked that overall "boxy" aesthetic.

Yay! I think that's cool. The TNCs were (are) intelligent modems.
They do have a terminal mode, in which you can interact in English with them.
Those with the original, American TAPR firmware, I mean.
It was used to operate the TNC from within a real glass terminal or home computer+terminal software.

Unfortunately, we Europeans dropped terminal mode in the 90s and began to use Hayes-like abbreviations in our TNC firmware ("The Firmware", TF). *sigh*
The idea was to use a computer optimized communication instead.

Hardware wise, these TNCs are Z80 single board computers. They technically could run CP/M, if enough RAM was installed.
Some even have an memory expansion, to allow for a mailbox (users can store messages in your TNC).

Here's a quick video of my PK-232, to give an idea.
It's a multi-mode model, with its own firmware. It can be replaced TF, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6_PNpWEhNc

Interesting is the auto-baud detection.
By typing a star (*), the TNC firmware would try to detect the terminal baudrate.

The same method was used in the days of our X.25 service (Datex-P, by our Federal Postal Agency/later operated by Telekom here).
The local PAD you'd called with your telephone modem or acoustic coupler had an automatic baud rate detection.
It was a dot ("."), followed by pressing the enter key.

Edit: Anyway, I didn't mean to spam this topic. I just meant to say that your chassis is a good choice.
SBCs were actually installed in such chassis in the 8-Bit era.
And in case you need further inspiration, you may want to have a look at some RTTY decoders of the 70s/80s.
They've used panels with switches and lights, too.

I have absolutely no interest in the mass produced "home computers" of the 80s, but the 70s homebrew/kit scene has quite a bit of appeal. I could also see myself getting into 80s business class machines like the 8" floppy trs-80 line for example.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2024-01-11, 01:19:

I have absolutely no interest in the mass produced "home computers" of the 80s, but the 70s homebrew/kit scene has quite a bit of appeal. I could also see myself getting into 80s business class machines like the 8" floppy trs-80 line for example.

Hi, this might be interesting then.
http://www.trs-80.org/omikron-mapper/
http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/cpm/

What's also interesting is MP/M or MP/M II.
- It's like a spiritual predecessor to PC-MOS/386 (x86).

MP/M or CP/Net are the power user version of CP/M so to say. They can run CP/M 2.2 applications, too.
The former can use bank-switching (like EMS on PC) and supports a CRT device and multiple serial terminals (TTY devices).

There's a cool video demonstration here (not by me) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXc8Imz-w-A

Edit: Link changed to YT video. I didn't mean to feature someones else project here. 😅
My intention rather was to show how MP/M operates.

For testing purposes, I recommend Zemu emulator. It can handle 8" floppy images and much more.
http://www.z80.info/z80emu.htm

Edit: Here's a networking tutorial for CP/Net -> http://cpmarchives.classiccmp.org/cpm/Miscellany/cpnet.html

Jo22 wrote on 2024-01-10, 19:19:

Yay! I think that's cool. The TNCs were (are) intelligent modems. They do have a terminal mode, in which you can interact in Eng […]
Show full quote

StriderTR wrote on 2024-01-10, 18:32:

Jo22 wrote on 2024-01-10, 16:04:

The Z80-MBC2 reminds me a little bit of a TNC2.
It's a series of Z80 based radio modems, essentially. See Landolt TNC2, MFJ TNC2, PK-232..

That's the look I wanted to go for. I wanted it to look like a "modern" miniature version of something like the Altair or SWTPC, but since there were only a need for 3 buttons on the unit, it ended up looking a lot like a modem. That's a good thing for me since I've always liked that overall "boxy" aesthetic.

Yay! I think that's cool. The TNCs were (are) intelligent modems.
They do have a terminal mode, in which you can interact in English with them.
Those with the original, American TAPR firmware, I mean.
It was used to operate the TNC from within a real glass terminal or home computer+terminal software.

Unfortunately, we Europeans dropped terminal mode in the 90s and began to use Hayes-like abbreviations in our TNC firmware ("The Firmware", TF). *sigh*
The idea was to use a computer optimized communication instead.

Hardware wise, these TNCs are Z80 single board computers. They technically could run CP/M, if enough RAM was installed.
Some even have an memory expansion, to allow for a mailbox (users can store messages in your TNC).

Here's a quick video of my PK-232, to give an idea.
It's a multi-mode model, with its own firmware. It can be replaced TF, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6_PNpWEhNc

Interesting is the auto-baud detection.
By typing a star (*), the TNC firmware would try to detect the terminal baudrate.

The same method was used in the days of our X.25 service (Datex-P, by our Federal Postal Agency/later operated by Telekom here).
The local PAD you'd called with your telephone modem or acoustic coupler had an automatic baud rate detection.
It was a dot ("."), followed by pressing the enter key.

Edit: Anyway, I didn't mean to spam this topic. I just meant to say that your chassis is a good choice.
SBCs were actually installed in such chassis in the 8-Bit era.
And in case you need further inspiration, you may want to have a look at some RTTY decoders of the 70s/80s.
They've used panels with switches and lights, too.

As someone who got into modems only in the 90s with the Hayes standard this was a fascinating read.

dionb wrote on 2024-01-10, 12:29:

demonized999 wrote on 2024-01-10, 08:35:

Not just you :) Not sure what you mean with "Current prices on vintage PC games" but I believe you have not seen the prices on p […]
Show full quote

Not just you 😀
Not sure what you mean with "Current prices on vintage PC games" but I believe you have not seen the prices on popular 80s non-x86 hardware like the Amigas and these Ataris?
Prices of all hardware has gone haywire. I am fortunate to have found/bought more or less what I want from the PC hardware I am interested in (with few exceptions) and looking around other unexplored by me platforms.
I for example am very interested in finding components and building a first-gen Alpha 21064 PC, but so far I have only a (supposedly) working CPU 😀
I don't have high hopes in finding other components like case and motherboard but am looking out..Hopefully one day I will be able to.

I have opposite problem - beautiful PC164SX motherboard (for 400/500MHz 21164PC) with unfindable CPU 😜

Ha I had a couple of PC164LX mainboards with 500MHz Alphas, and also a Compaq XP1000 workstation (a real brick) with EV67 667 MHz. I still have my notes about setting up and configuring SRM 😀 I used to run a compiled Gentoo on them. But as with other old hardware, I sold almost everything at some point and now regret it.

I'll probably add a couple of fill-in-the-gap PC builds in the future, but for the time being I too am also more focused on the old Micros instead, in-between collecting retro games consoles.

I already had both a Commodore 64 & a Sinclair ZX Spectrum +2A in my collection, computers I'd owned as a kid and I wasn't planning to add to it. Then in 2019 on a whim I bought an Amstrad CPC 464 for curiosity, since I'd never actually used one before.

I caught the collecting bug then and my collection grew over the past 3-4 years and I ended up with the following additional Micros:

Commodore VIC-20
Commodore Plus/4
Commodore Amiga 1200
Atari 65XE
Atari 520 STE
BBC Micro Model B
Acorn Electron
Texas Instruments TI-99/4A
Dragon 32
Toshiba HX-10 MSX
Sanyo MPC-100 MSX
Sinclair ZX81
Sinclair ZX Spectrum (48K)
Sharp MZ-700

Then of course I had to buy extra stuff for all of these, including expansions, upgrades & modern storage solutions etc. I try not to think about how much this lot has cost me over the past few years. But I'm not done collecting, there's a few micros I would like to add to my collection, as well as some others I just dream about owning but probably never will due to the costs. 🤣

Oh, the Atari 65XE/520STE/1040ST are things I really hope to come across for cheap some day but for now I will probably settle on a broken 800XL I hope to fix as a side project 😀

That is a nice collection of 80s micros though, I would really love to play around with some of them!