ccronk wrote on 2024-03-01, 02:00:

To know office and it's various versions well enough to be a bad ass mother *u***r. Isn't that what everyone wants? Moreover needs.

Not really.

Just knowing a piece of software by itself doesn't matter by itself. What is more important is knowing how to solve problems in businesses, and how to apply different tools to accomplish that.

In many cases, managers won't be able to evaluate how well you know a particular piece of software to begin with.

You have to know how something worls before gaining proficiency with it.

Then learn whatever floats your boat, you do sound like you made up your mind. And being quite rude about advice given in answer to your obscure question. The main point that you still didn't properly explain: what's the purpose? Your end goal? Being an office guru over a 20 years release span for boasting rights? Your own intellectual interest? Getting a job?

In the first two cases, whatever. Get into what grabs your interest, not that it matters. For the latter, similarly to what Shponglefan said before, I'm also a manager hiring technical positions all the time. I wouldn't give two shits if you're a black belt in Office 2007. If you had real-life experience and certifications with O365 and some of the rest of the M365 microcosm, then we're talking because that's where it's at right now. And you won't be "better" at the latest versions because you taught yourself the old ones. It's unecessary.

Good luck in whatever you're trying to do.

Why would an employer require proficiency in old versions of Office? Just learn the latest version of the product. You'll just confuse yourself otherwise.

PD2JK wrote on 2024-03-01, 08:40:

Real story. Some work I did for a customer who lives in the dark ages IT wise, but now suffers the consequences a bit. Yesterday, I had to convert an Access 97 *.mdb to a 'modern' *.accdb with the help of Access 2007, so it could be opened in Access 365 v2401.
Access 365 can't convert old stuff.

Well that sucks. I still use a couple databases I made in Access 2000.
I guess I can still install 2000 alongside 365 if needed.
I've never touched modern versions of Access but I may need to do that soon.

Errius wrote on 2024-03-01, 21:49:

Why would an employer require proficiency in old versions of Office? Just learn the latest version of the product. You'll just confuse yourself otherwise.

The post above mine waa what I was responding to.

Who said anything about employers, or resume's??? Why insert these things into conversations when those strictures aren't required???

Back in early 1990’s I used some VHS tapes by “Mr Professor” to learn DOS, MS Win-3.11, and Office.
It cost about $500 for the tapes set back in 1990’s
Later Mr Professor came out on CD and was allot less expensive.
But Video instructions is better than Books.
I also took Microsoft certification courses and we learned from books and hands on instructions in a classroom.
And CBT courses.
I would say the best and easiest way to learn is from Video instruction on a PC.
If you can watch video instructions on a PC while using office on the same or dual screen computer would be best.
Modern office workers use the latest version of MS Office.

You will learn much faster with good video instruction courses.
Faster than books or live classrooms.

It’s also the less expensive option.
And the most exact reliable option. In a live classroom the instructors and classmates may have the wrong answers
Where the Video instruction courses are usually right.
But use a reputable video instruction course that is Microsoft certified.
Use books for formulas, definitions, shortcuts, references etc.

I took a course in web application development. I would read the material, then watch the video. I learned nothing new from the videos so I stopped watching them. I'd rather just read. That's how I learn best.

That is a variable thing, my wife does better off videos, me off books, I find videos to be too low in information density and my mind wanders, if a youtube instructional is the only info there is, I'll have it on 1.75 to 2x speed. However some new topics I can't visually lock-in to what a book is talking about and need a brief trial and error fail with the program or just a intro to basic features vid to get the lay of the land so the travelogue makes sense.

I think it comes down to talent/showmanship. Try reading textbooks from the 60s and 70s. No way. They were smaller, less dense. My calculus text from the 80s was all a self learner would ever need. Larson/Hostetler. Undoubtedly there were many other great texts. Maybe someone can comment on why texts got so much better in the 80s.

Now a GOOD video may make the difference. Yeah I always tended to drift like a mofo in school. But not always. History was always engrossing and rivetting to me. Got strait A's in "social studies" through most of school. Never read anything 🤣. Until "civics" came along in 12th grade. Gov't schnitzel. Much more interesting to me now.

A book has to be good. I couldn't grasp 80x86 assembler until I found the right book. But a subject like that can also take time for it to sink in. I've heard that from others. They took the course, may have gotten a very good grade, but didn't undetstand any of it. 6 months later it all just clicked.

Well. If you never used a computer or Office program before Video instruction is an EASY quick way to learn the Basics.
I good primer to books or live classroom.
Especially if your english is not very good.
Computer terminology can be very difficult to understand at times. It’s like reading Backwords in Hebrew.

But always read the Summary, Notes, Glossary, Index, and take a primer to better prepare you for the course
And what you are about and expected to learn.
This will help you better grasp and retain what you are about to learn.
I like to study to best retain what I am about to learn so I could actually teach the course myself.
I alway study to obtain instructor level test scores.

Back in 1993 when I purchased my first computer ( 486 with CDROM and Sound card ) home computers were still very expensive
And not being taught in schools because they were expensive.
You could take a computer class in a regional training center program or city college.
There was no web browsers back then and people used dial up modems with bulletin boards to communicate
And share on the internet. The internet was still very new and not allot of people had internet access or service providers.
So I found a guy in the news paper offering computer tutor services. I hired him to help me set up my first computer.
He was a great help in getting me started and headed in the right path. We setup my computer, installed all the software, and he showed me which programs were best for different applications and how to setup and use them.
So he was a BIG Help.
If you have never used a computer before a professional tutor is a good investment.
And what I learned I shared with other friends and family members in helping them purchase and learn computers and choosing the right software and programs for the job. .
So that little investment in a tutor payed off back when computers were still a very NEW Expensive hobby for the home.

So I would say video instruction along with a tutor is a good starting point in learning to use a computer for the first time.

So imagine a time back in late 1980 and early 1990’s when computers were still very new and expensive devices to own at home. Builders had to choose components and assemble their own computers but there were not many people who knew about computers or what components to choose and there was NO internet to learn from. You had to go to computer builder stores to get help
But the sales people also did not know much and would try to sell you the most expensive components.
Only big universities and corporations could afford them.
Share what you learn with others and offer tutor services.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-03-03, 05:19:

Back in 1993 ...
There was no web browsers back then

Fact check, yes there were, you just didn't know about them. I used some in 1993, the first one was circa 1990. Spring '93 was when they started hitting the PC though prior versions for NeXT systems and Xwindow. Mosaic appeared for Amiga almost the same time as PC which was handy, then I could try out html to see what worked, I was maybe 6 months out from my own win 3.x system that could run it.

edit: Heh, I was just thinking '93, '94 web design seemed "too easy" like any trained monkey could do it, so hammer out pages as required for personal stuff... so got it in my head about then, that it was cool but no career option... by 1997 or so, frames, CSS, java, etc it had got a lot more complex... but still seemed a bit like obsessing over type setting and ignoring the content of the book.... so call me short sighted but I let that opportunity pass... though it kept me out of trouble from getting swept up in that dotcom mindset which was Phase 1: Put something on the internet. Phase 2: ??? Phase 3: profit. ... I tell you, nothing looked profitable to me back then, I noticed eBay, but I picked Outpost.com as the store of the future, Amazon was still a minor league book seller, there were 20 minor league book sellers at least, it would have been hard to back the right horse even if Madam ZaZa looked in her crystal ball in 1998 and told you "a bookseller will be the king of the internet"

I think it's okay to use old versions of Office at home, but in a workplace with people who aren't tech gurus but rather are the type of people who are likely to open an attachment in an email without checking who it's from, you're asking for trouble if you run versions of Office that no longer get security updates. I think then that learning Office 2013 or earlier wouldn't be very useful because not many other people will be using it. Also, if you learn an Office version before 2007 first, you'll be pretty annoyed when you upgrade to 2007 and the ribbon comes along 😁

Yes, Okay and Microsoft is discontinuing support for Microsoft mail and switching to Outlook mail.
I use regular MS-mail and I like it because it’s EASY to understand. I find Outlook mail confusing.

There was a time when there was NO Internet Explorer ( I.E.) or Netscape web browsers. NO Cloud computing and NO Office document collaboration Over the internet.

You want ALL Security features turned ON in your computer.
I still get Alerts from my ISP that someone is trying to Hack my IP Address.

Honestly, if you don't have a legit license for the most recent version of office, then just use LibreOffice instead. These days the general functionality and interface is pretty close between them both. It's 'good enough' for most things.

No, it doesn't have a direcr Access equivalent, but Access needs to die anyway.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-03-03, 05:19:

Well. If you never used a computer or Office program before Video instruction is an EASY quick way to learn the Basics. I good p […]
Show full quote

Well. If you never used a computer or Office program before Video instruction is an EASY quick way to learn the Basics.
I good primer to books or live classroom.
Especially if your english is not very good.
Computer terminology can be very difficult to understand at times. It’s like reading Backwords in Hebrew.

But always read the Summary, Notes, Glossary, Index, and take a primer to better prepare you for the course
And what you are about and expected to learn.
This will help you better grasp and retain what you are about to learn.
I like to study to best retain what I am about to learn so I could actually teach the course myself.
I alway study to obtain instructor level test scores.

Back in 1993 when I purchased my first computer ( 486 with CDROM and Sound card ) home computers were still very expensive
And not being taught in schools because they were expensive.
You could take a computer class in a regional training center program or city college.
There was no web browsers back then and people used dial up modems with bulletin boards to communicate
And share on the internet. The internet was still very new and not allot of people had internet access or service providers.
So I found a guy in the news paper offering computer tutor services. I hired him to help me set up my first computer.
He was a great help in getting me started and headed in the right path. We setup my computer, installed all the software, and he showed me which programs were best for different applications and how to setup and use them.
So he was a BIG Help.
If you have never used a computer before a professional tutor is a good investment.
And what I learned I shared with other friends and family members in helping them purchase and learn computers and choosing the right software and programs for the job. .
So that little investment in a tutor payed off back when computers were still a very NEW Expensive hobby for the home.

So I would say video instruction along with a tutor is a good starting point in learning to use a computer for the first time.

So imagine a time back in late 1980 and early 1990’s when computers were still very new and expensive devices to own at home. Builders had to choose components and assemble their own computers but there were not many people who knew about computers or what components to choose and there was NO internet to learn from. You had to go to computer builder stores to get help
But the sales people also did not know much and would try to sell you the most expensive components.
Only big universities and corporations could afford them.
Share what you learn with others and offer tutor services.

What we did have in the 80s was BYTE and Computer Shopper, and others. We also had savvy nerds we were friends with who tipped us off regarding the availability of good quality floppy drives advertised in the back pages of almost all the magazines. You just had to glance over the ads and you were knowledgeable enough to assemble a clone or even an Apple II clone before long. Then articles would appear explaining how to do it. Then books by Aubrey Pilgrim and Bob Brant iitc, who explained how to build Mac clones. The original hackingtosh articles appeared in Computer Shopper.

megatron-uk wrote on 2024-03-03, 16:26:

Honestly, if you don't have a legit license for the most recent version of office..

.. and you want one, keep an eye on Boing Boing deals.

So am I left standing here w/egg on my face and the latest version is the way to go? Frig everuthing earlier?

ccronk wrote on 2024-03-03, 22:03:

So am I left standing here w/egg on my face and the latest version is the way to go? Frig everuthing earlier?

Unless you just want to learn word-processing and spreadsheets (and there are better/easier ways of achieving that), I think the consensus is that it's not going to get you anywhere.

For serous use out in the workplace, no point going earlier and learning how to do something just to find F*king Microsoft have moved that option under the new version.

Also not many companies expect you to know all of office an Excel Guru rarely knows the power of Word and almost no one knows how to use Access. Outlook is usually left for I.T. to sort out and does anyone really use Powerpoint anymore?

Personally, my favourite versions were.
Office 2003 which was basically the same as 2000 with an improved version of Outlook
2010 the last version that still had a somewhat useable menu, 2013 and later went too far with ribbon bar/icons IMHO

after that Office 365 really started taking over and you start loosing track of what version your even using.