VOGONS


First post, by Boohyaka

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Hi guys,

So this is a bit of a two topics in one, but I remember reading on here some time ago about a tool that was able to test and print out an ISA soundcard capabilities (basically if SBPro/SB16/WSS/Covox/Disney Sound Source etc. is supported). My google-fu has failed me and I haven't been able to find it...so my first question is basically if such a tool does exist or did I dream it?

Secondly this is the occasion to talk about this sound card that has been sitting in a drawer for some month, as it may be a pretty good card after all. Here's a proper picture:

ASOUND3DPNP.jpeg
Filename
ASOUND3DPNP.jpeg
File size
633.94 KiB
Views
1950 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

While I could easily find information about the ALS100 chip (and got some great info about it from dionb in one of my first topics on this very website), I had some trouble finding information about this particular card. Yesterday, by sheer luck I ended up on a topic with an archive.org link to that manufacturer's website with catalog scans of their products, and could find that very card and identify it properly for the first time:

Catalog1.jpg
Filename
Catalog1.jpg
File size
167.55 KiB
Views
1950 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception
Catalog2.jpg
Filename
Catalog2.jpg
File size
121.38 KiB
Views
1950 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

So in the end, it is an ASOUND Pro 3D-32PnP as the pictured model is definitely exactly the one I got. That's the most precise and complete information I've ever had about it. Googling all kind of variations of this name gives very few results unfortunately. Looks like it wasn't that popular, while they do have a couple of other cards that were more common it seems (AS004, AS007 (ASOUND Gold) mainly).

According to the specs this is actually a potentially pretty good card, with supposedly proper SB16/SBPro/Adlib compatibility, WSS1 and 2 and the integrated Dream Wavespace samples.

Something that got my attention was the "FM Synthesizer" section of the catalog that mentions "Yamaha OPL3 FM technology". When I first posted about this card, dionb and others mentioned it didn't look like it featured any proper OPL3 or clone (such as LS262) often featured on ALS100 based cards, and that the FM portion was probably handled by the CS9233 chip. As I see no other chip that fits the bill either with my limited knowledge, and the CS9233 apparently supports FM from what I could read, that would make sense. But in that case would it make sense that they mention "Yamaha OPL3 FM technology" in the specs, wouldn't that be deceiving to customers? Obviously I'm not that naive and am sure the marketing from a Taiwanese company in the 90's would be fine with a little "creative interpretation" as long as the proper keywords were on the press release, but still this got me curious and wanting to double-check.

And to loop the loop with my initial question - would there be anything 100% objective to test and benchmark this card for its FM capabilities? Or is it only a subjective matter of "sounding somewhat different" when you listen to it?

In any case I want to test that card a little more in my next build as soon as I'm able to. Thanks to archive.org (again..what an amazing and priceless resource) I was able to find some drivers off their now defunct official website. Unfortunately the website got very few captures (only 13, half of them being 404) and the latest driver package named 3d122696.exe wasn't captured, and googling didn't help either. But I got the previous one from 1 month before. Now I need to figure out how to submit drivers to vogonsdrivers 😀 if this card does what it's supposed to do, that the FM sounds good, and the card isn't too noisy, this will definitely find its place in a build 😀

As a small gift, please take a look at this link, when the Internet was a simpler (and arguably happier) place, and when I could have done a company website in a couple of hours as it wasn't that different from my own geocities page haha

Reply 1 of 14, by cyclone3d

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

To upload to vogonsdrivers, you need an account.

If you post about it in the vogonsdrivers thread, with a download link, one of us will get it uploaded.
VOGONS Driver Library

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 3 of 14, by Shreddoc

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

For objective testing and analysis, MDFourier.

I'm actually amazed that THE custom software specifically written to be a fully fledged objective analyser of sound chip outputs is barely known here at this forum mecca of soundcard technology! Hopefully it's use will spread, for the betterment of sound card understanding and preservation.

sample1.png
Filename
sample1.png
File size
116.32 KiB
Views
1907 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Supporter of PicoGUS, PicoMEM, mt32-pi, WavetablePi, Throttle Blaster, Voltage Blaster, GBS-Control, GP2040-CE, RetroNAS.

Reply 4 of 14, by pc-sound-legacy

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I can't see no dedicated FM in that card, too. So there are just two possibilities, imo.
The Dream is handling the FM as you mentioned. (It sounds quite different than the yamaha OPL2/3)
Or maybe behind the decal is not an ALS100 but an ALS100+ which has an integrated FM that sounds pretty much the same as the original Yamaha OPL2/3.

False informations on these boxes weren't uncommon I think, especially on these more or less taiwanese no-name brands. I recently saw a 2themax Voodoo II box with an AGP Logo printed on 😀

Reply 5 of 14, by Bancho

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I have a very similar card. I believe FM is handled by the CS9233 chip as it doesn't sound like gen OPL3. But in all fairness, the fact it supports what it does and has really good wavetable onboard makes it a really good card!

KvJRf97l.jpg

Reply 6 of 14, by dionb

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Boohyaka wrote on 2020-10-02, 17:15:

[...]

Something that got my attention was the "FM Synthesizer" section of the catalog that mentions "Yamaha OPL3 FM technology". When I first posted about this card, dionb and others mentioned it didn't look like it featured any proper OPL3 or clone (such as LS262) often featured on ALS100 based cards, and that the FM portion was probably handled by the CS9233 chip. As I see no other chip that fits the bill either with my limited knowledge, and the CS9233 apparently supports FM from what I could read, that would make sense. But in that case would it make sense that they mention "Yamaha OPL3 FM technology" in the specs, wouldn't that be deceiving to customers? Obviously I'm not that naive and am sure the marketing from a Taiwanese company in the 90's would be fine with a little "creative interpretation" as long as the proper keywords were on the press release, but still this got me curious and wanting to double-check.

And to loop the loop with my initial question - would there be anything 100% objective to test and benchmark this card for its FM capabilities? Or is it only a subjective matter of "sounding somewhat different" when you listen to it?

The only 100% objective test is to look at waveforms. But subjective tests are more interesting, just listen and compare.

Here's an opinion on the FM synth of the 9233:
Re: Equivalent replacement for Reveal SC500 16bit sound card

The SAM9233/CS9233 FM sounds much smoother then a genuine Yamaha OPL chip, a bit like an organ.

Basically I'd just recommend running a game with a good OPL3 track. Dune 1 immediately comes to mind, or otherwise Ultima 6 (composed for AdLib/OPL2, but still a good way to separate the sheep from the goats in FM-world)

I must say I'm intrigued, I have lots of cards with lots of FM stuff, from absolutely awful (Prometheus Aria) to sublime (ProAudio Spectrum/Studio 16 is still the OPL3 to beat in my opinion), but I don't have anything with a Dream chip doing OPL duty. Need to get one - the Terratec 32/96 would be the obvious choice, but generally a bit above my budget...

Reply 7 of 14, by Boohyaka

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

This card will go in a new P233MMX build, I'm still waiting on the mobo, covid making things slow...I'm now curious and looking forward to actually giving it a proper test as I now have enough machines and soundcards to make an interesting comparison - this card, ESS1868f, AWE32 CT3900, and soon enough an Orpheus that just got sent 😀

Thanks for the games suggestions dionb, I'll try those. I should be able to make proper recordings if there's any interest! So you guys feel free to suggest more games to compare.

Reply 8 of 14, by Cuttoon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Boohyaka, thank you for the info on that card.

Thought it might fit here, I just received the version with simple OPL3 clone in the mail.
It has the same designation or FCC ID, MA5ASAOUND.

The "LS262" seems to by one of the more common disguises of the Yamaha YMF-262.

ASOUND.JPG
Filename
ASOUND.JPG
File size
457.27 KiB
Views
1549 views
File license
Public domain

I wonder what caused these grey lines on the chip's label - heat or humidity?

ALS100.JPG
Filename
ALS100.JPG
File size
73.37 KiB
Views
1549 views
File license
Public domain

I like jumpers.

Reply 9 of 14, by keropi

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Cuttoon wrote on 2022-03-10, 13:52:
The "LS262" seems to by one of the more common disguises of the Yamaha YMF-262. ASOUND.JPG […]
Show full quote

The "LS262" seems to by one of the more common disguises of the Yamaha YMF-262.
ASOUND.JPG

I wonder what caused these grey lines on the chip's label - heat or humidity?
ALS100.JPG

that LS262 should be a 100% clone of OPL3 so you are set in that front
also the ALS100 does get warm when powered so the label deterioration is explained - and it's not that bad actually
personally I would get rid of that sticker

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 10 of 14, by Boohyaka

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Cuttoon wrote on 2022-03-10, 13:52:

Boohyaka, thank you for the info on that card.

Glad it was useful to you! Funny timing, as I'm working on a build with random loose stuff I had in drawers and I wanted to give this card a new go.
I honestly forgot about this topic I created and have no idea why I never got around to testing this card properly.

According to the old website, yours is the ASOUND 100 3D 16 PnP 😁

100b.jpg
Filename
100b.jpg
File size
111.2 KiB
Views
1473 views
File license
Public domain
100f.jpg
Filename
100f.jpg
File size
165.2 KiB
Views
1473 views
File license
Public domain

Reply 11 of 14, by Cuttoon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Boohyaka wrote on 2022-03-10, 20:03:

According to the old website, yours is the ASOUND 100 3D 16 PnP 😁

Thank you again.

Ah, those wonderful times when even Panzer General 2 was maketed as "Panzer General IIID" in Germany because, well...

I like jumpers.

Reply 12 of 14, by GL1zdA

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

There's another similar cards to the 2 above: the Britek Trump WaveCom 32 aka TRUMP Audio/Wave32 PnP-AVx.

I've tested it yesterday with my friend and the FM synthesis is done by the SAM9233. It uses the Dream's FM synth engine and sounds quite different from a genuine Yamaha OPL, not bad, but more on the "interesting" than faithful to the OPL side.

Attachments

  • a01.jpg
    Filename
    a01.jpg
    File size
    392.28 KiB
    Views
    724 views
    File comment
    Trump WaveCom 32
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
Last edited by GL1zdA on 2024-04-10, 12:02. Edited 1 time in total.

getquake.gif | InfoWorld/PC Magazine Indices

Reply 13 of 14, by keropi

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
GL1zdA wrote on 2024-04-10, 08:23:

There's another similar cards to the 2 above: the Britek Trump WaveCom 32 aka TRUMP Audio/Wave32 PnP-AVx.
[...]

kinda bummer , 9233 FM is indeed unique but most of the times it is too unique 🤣
how did you find the ALS100 output? does it sound good on that card?

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 14 of 14, by GL1zdA

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Haven't really tested it much, but it didn't sound bad, though it's not a Terratec Maestro 32/96 either. I had to turn the volume down to like 2/3 of what the mixer provided, or otherwise the sound would "crack" a lot. But it definitely sounded cleaner than the similar, but CMI8328 based AV500. Unfortunately, someone snatched the ROM chip from my AV500, so the SAM is non-functional 🙁.

getquake.gif | InfoWorld/PC Magazine Indices