VOGONS


First post, by Karmeck

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

https://jacobspiano.com/product/jacobs-originals-complete/

Trying to listen to the demo file
https://jacobspiano.com/wp-content/uploads/20 … a-MIDI-Demo.mid

And the volume is freeking low, what is up with that?

is there some option I´m not finding in falcosoft midi player to boost volume?

I know that Mr Jackson already spoken on the subject, but I thought I try here as well.
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/125485- … -of-mid-tracks/

Reply 1 of 18, by Spikey

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

There's no volume sent in the MIDI file, or overall many controllers, very weird. But an absolute ton of MIDI CC #88 - a high resolution velocity switch apparently.

I edited it to include max volume sent on both channels. See if it makes a difference.

Attachments

Reply 2 of 18, by Karmeck

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Spikey wrote on 2024-05-21, 05:42:

There's no volume sent in the MIDI file, or overall many controllers, very weird. But an absolute ton of MIDI CC #88 - a high resolution velocity switch apparently.

I edited it to include max volume sent on both channels. See if it makes a difference.

Sadly, no.
Did you notice a difference?

Reply 3 of 18, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Karmeck wrote on 2024-05-20, 09:55:
https://jacobspiano.com/product/jacobs-originals-complete/ […]
Show full quote

https://jacobspiano.com/product/jacobs-originals-complete/

Trying to listen to the demo file
https://jacobspiano.com/wp-content/uploads/20 … a-MIDI-Demo.mid

And the volume is freeking low, what is up with that?

is there some option I´m not finding in falcosoft midi player to boost volume?

I know that Mr Jackson already spoken on the subject, but I thought I try here as well.
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/125485- … -of-mid-tracks/

You can do the same thing as Spikey did (that is increase channel volume) with the help of the Volume knob on FSMP's controller bar right below the piano. But it will not help much since you can only increase from default 100 to 127 which is only about 1/4 more and the individual Note On events have very low velocity values. Many are in the single digit range and none of them is higher than 30 (possible max. is 127).
Unfortunately this cannot be corrected blindly real-time. To preserve dynamics you have to inspect the whole Midi file and find the Note On event with the highest velocity value then calculate the maximum multiplier based on this info and apply it to every Note On event's velocity value.
Maybe it could be added to Event Viewer/Debugger as an action. I will think about this.

Last edited by Falcosoft on 2024-05-21, 06:57. Edited 2 times in total.

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi
VST Midi Driver Midi Mapper

Reply 4 of 18, by Karmeck

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-21, 06:41:
Karmeck wrote on 2024-05-20, 09:55:
https://jacobspiano.com/product/jacobs-originals-complete/ […]
Show full quote

https://jacobspiano.com/product/jacobs-originals-complete/

Trying to listen to the demo file
https://jacobspiano.com/wp-content/uploads/20 … a-MIDI-Demo.mid

And the volume is freeking low, what is up with that?

is there some option I´m not finding in falcosoft midi player to boost volume?

I know that Mr Jackson already spoken on the subject, but I thought I try here as well.
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/125485- … -of-mid-tracks/

You can do the same thing as Spikey did (that is increase channel volume) with the help of the Volume knob on FSMP's controller bar right below the piano. But it will not help much since you can only increase from default 100 to 127 which is only about 1/4 more and the individual Note events have very low velocity values. Many are in the single digit range and none of them is higher than 30 (possible max. is 127).

I will also not fix the low volume for when I play thees midis on a sc-55. Yet to be bought. Going old-school. Floppy playback. So edited midi files are the way to go.

Reply 5 of 18, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

BTW, here is a maximized volume version modified by GNMidi.

Filename
Jacobs-Piano-Moonlight-Sonata-MIDI-Demo2_volmod.zip
File size
2.21 KiB
Downloads
8 downloads
File license
Public domain

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi
VST Midi Driver Midi Mapper

Reply 6 of 18, by Karmeck

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-21, 07:14:

BTW, here is a maximized volume version modified by GNMidi.
Jacobs-Piano-Moonlight-Sonata-MIDI-Demo2_volmod.zip

well this one worked nicely, thankyou. Thank you for the software recommendation as well, bet that would be hard to google for.

Will try to fix one of the longer songs tomorrow.

Reply 7 of 18, by Karmeck

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-21, 07:14:

BTW, here is a maximized volume version modified by GNMidi.
Jacobs-Piano-Moonlight-Sonata-MIDI-Demo2_volmod.zip

I fold, how'd you do it?

I did try to increase the volume, there is a clearly indicated ui for were to do that. I move it all the way up to 1000%, no difference. All channels. There is likely something I'm missing, tried a different midi fill also no difference.

or is it because I have not bought the software yet? Like, you can click around but not change anything?

Reply 8 of 18, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Karmeck wrote on 2024-05-22, 11:09:
I fold, how'd you do it? […]
Show full quote
Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-21, 07:14:

BTW, here is a maximized volume version modified by GNMidi.
Jacobs-Piano-Moonlight-Sonata-MIDI-Demo2_volmod.zip

I fold, how'd you do it?

I did try to increase the volume, there is a clearly indicated ui for were to do that. I move it all the way up to 1000%, no difference. All channels. There is likely something I'm missing, tried a different midi fill also no difference.

or is it because I have not bought the software yet? Like, you can click around but not change anything?

You should not use the 'Volume' option but the 'Note Velocity'. As I described in an earlier post you can only get about 25% volume increase by using channel volume increase.
The bigger change can be achieved by increasing individual Note On velocities (you can get about 400% volume increase this way).

note_vel.png
Filename
note_vel.png
File size
3.5 KiB
Views
671 views
File license
Public domain

Ps: After every modification you will get a new state window inside the main UI of GNMidi. Be aware to select and save the last one that represents the state with the latest changes.

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi
VST Midi Driver Midi Mapper

Reply 9 of 18, by Karmeck

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-22, 11:17:
You should not use the 'Volume' option but the 'Note Velocity'. As I described in an earlier post you can only get about 25% vol […]
Show full quote
Karmeck wrote on 2024-05-22, 11:09:
I fold, how'd you do it? […]
Show full quote
Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-21, 07:14:

BTW, here is a maximized volume version modified by GNMidi.
Jacobs-Piano-Moonlight-Sonata-MIDI-Demo2_volmod.zip

I fold, how'd you do it?

I did try to increase the volume, there is a clearly indicated ui for were to do that. I move it all the way up to 1000%, no difference. All channels. There is likely something I'm missing, tried a different midi fill also no difference.

or is it because I have not bought the software yet? Like, you can click around but not change anything?

You should not use the 'Volume' option but the 'Note Velocity'. As I described in an earlier post you can only get about 25% volume increase by using channel volume increase.
The bigger change can be achieved by increasing individual Note On velocities (you can get about 400% volume increase this way).
note_vel.png

Ps: After every modification you will get a new state window inside the main UI of GNMidi. Be aware to select and save the last one that represents the state with the latest changes.

So, I don't know. Like TheUltimateDoomer666 said over at doomworld. It's not a simple task to increase the volume. The sound seem more static and of balance. Using audacity, they don't look the same.

Attachments

Reply 10 of 18, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Karmeck wrote on 2024-05-22, 14:09:

So, I don't know. Like TheUltimateDoomer666 said over at doomworld. It's not a simple task to increase the volume. The sound seem more static and of balance. Using audacity, they don't look the same.

You should not expect them to look the same 😀. In case of many synths lower velocity values turn on filtering, modify brightness etc.
You can try to increase in smaller steps e.g. try 200% first. Based on your linked example file then most Note On velocity values still stay below 64 (which is a threshold value e.g. in case of Sound Blaster SF2 HW synths to turn off Velocity to Filter Cutoff modulator).
BTW, the high volume wave on your screenshot even seems to be clipping. So much volume increase is definitely too much.

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi
VST Midi Driver Midi Mapper

Reply 11 of 18, by Spikey

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Some basic explanations are in order for what these terms mean in MIDI:

- Volume - the overall loudness of the instrument in 0-127 - effectively relative to others in the track (one is set at 50, another 100 etc).
- Velocity - the specific note intensity separate from the volume, also in 0-127. There iIf you imagine a keyboard, s note on and off, but that's beyond the scope here. If you imagine a physical piano or keyboard, 0-30 is (roughly speaking) barely pressing the key, 30-60 is a light press, 60-90 is a normal press and 90-127 is a strong press. So this further modulates the volume.

In this specific case, the MIDI is set originally with velocities that are unsuitably low - pretty much all under 30. So you can imagine a person at a piano and playing a song but each time they're barely touching the key. That should help to understand why the result is unsatisfactory.
For reference, Roland typically uses velocities 90 and up for Sound Canvases (the MT-32 was lower on average).

I edited the file some more. However, I didn't use the full velocity values I normally would because of the velocity controller that's extensively used throughout. So, I changed note on velocity to increase by 60, and note off by 30.
Percentages (scale) is not an appropriate way to alter velocity in this case because of the low initial values - it will emphasise differences too greatly. I.e., notes of 6 and then 12 will become 24 and 48 at 400%. Even though both sets of notes have the second note at twice the velocity of the first, it's exponentially (logarithmically?) different in volume and so is the gap between the values.
If you increase both by 30 (random value to be similar to 24-48), you get 36 and 42. These notes (and the resulting difference) will be more analogous to the original values.

Attachments

Reply 12 of 18, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Yes, it definitely sounds better. Just a little correction:

Spikey wrote on 2024-05-25, 06:56:

...
- Volume - the overall loudness of the instrument in 0-127 - effectively relative to others in the track (one is set at 50, another 100 etc).
...

Channel volume is effectively relative to others on the same channel, not in the track.
This means that (channel) volume affects other notes that are not in the same track if they use the same channel, and does not affect the notes in the same track if they use different channels.
So volume has a channel context, not track context.

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi
VST Midi Driver Midi Mapper

Reply 13 of 18, by Spikey

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

That's a minor distinction, IMO. Most times tracks and channels are the same thing. Volume is about a single channel, but it's then relative to other MIDI channels (instruments). In a single channel situation, there is no distinction, but in any other case, there is.

Reply 16 of 18, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Spikey wrote on 2024-05-26, 06:07:

That's a minor distinction, IMO. Most times tracks and channels are the same thing. Volume is about a single channel, but it's then relative to other MIDI channels (instruments). In a single channel situation, there is no distinction, but in any other case, there is.

Hi,
Maybe just a nitpicking on my side but tracks and channels are fundamentally different concepts so it's never worth handling them as if they were the same.
'Track' is an organizing concept in SMF(Midi file) specification only and is not part of the Midi protocol itself while 'Channel' is.
But let's forget theory. Here are some differences that have practical implications:
1. In case of type 0 Midi files you cannot handle them as the same since type 0 Midi files can contain only 1 track but any (1-16) channels.
2. In case of type 1/2 Midi files you can have 65535 tracks that can use only the same amount of channels (1-16) as type 0 Midi files. And type 1 Midi files with more than 16 tracks are not so rare.
3. In case of type 1 Midi files track 0 is almost never associated to channel 0 since track 0 is the tempo track by convention. And subsequent tracks usually do not follow channel order either. So you can almost never make a 1 to 1 relation between tracks and channels even with Midi files that use exactly 16, or less than 16 tracks.

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi
VST Midi Driver Midi Mapper

Reply 17 of 18, by Karmeck

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Spikey wrote on 2024-05-27, 05:53:

Lol, how will an amp help? You mean a large speaker?

Nope, just an amp. So the rca to 3.5mm will go in to an amp and then in to my computer..... Which would be the line in...... That will work right?

Yes that would be an amp for just thees songs.....

Not somthing I will do just now, first, I have this project of geting the emulator to work with the real lcd.