VOGONS


First post, by Cursed Derp

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Heyyyyyyyyyyo,
I have a Dell Dimension L1000R running Windows 98 SE. I mostly use it for pure DOS mode, which works great. However, Wing Commander runs insanely fast in both Windows and DOS mode. I know a patch used to exist, but I have no idea where to find that and the Origin website on the Wayback machine isn't working great. If anyone could dig up that patch from the depths of the interwebs, that would be awesome. And no, DOSBOX is not an option.
Thank ye all.

I am as smooth as a gravy train with flaming biscuit wheels.

Reply 1 of 12, by firage

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I don't know if there's a patch, but the Windows re-releases from Kilrathi Saga fixed the CPU speed sensitivity. A patched DOS version would probably be preferable, though.

My big-red-switch 486

Reply 2 of 12, by Joakim

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Wing commander is one of the infamous speed sensitive games out there. This is the reason why people have a 486 or a system you can slow down.

Maybe try moslo or something like that but I would bet it won't work.

Reply 3 of 12, by ux-3

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If you can disable cache in bios, that is what you want to do.

No patch for the original thing. There is a hack to enable the frame limiter from an expansion. But it does change the game somewhat. A hardware solution seems preferable, until you play the expansion module.

Retro PC warning: The things you own end up owning you.

Reply 5 of 12, by megatron-uk

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For the first game, it really needs to be on something like a 386DX-33 or something in that region.

All the way down to a 286-20 is 'playable', but anything like a 486-33 or higher is simply way too fast (engaging afterburner mode just becomes unplayable).

The second game is a little more forgiving, but still becomes silly with a fast 486.

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Reply 7 of 12, by wbahnassi

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SetMul can disable the caches regardless of BIOS support, no?

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, TSeng ET3000, SB 2.0, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 8 of 12, by megatron-uk

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Even with setmul l1d, WC1 will be far too fast. With a DX4-100, Am586-133 and Cx586-120 using setmul alone for cache control does not bring the game down to an acceptable speed.

The Cx586 does allow setmul to disable the clock multiplier, and that, along with disabling caches does get it approximately in the right ballpark.

A p3-1ghz is simply way too fast for Dos in general; I don't think it has enough options to reduce it down far enough.

My collection database and technical wiki:
https://www.target-earth.net

Reply 9 of 12, by Jo22

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I used to play Wing Commander I on my 12 MHz PC.
I didn't have EMS available on DOS, however, I believe.
Oh well. At least, I had Sound Blaster sound.

Edit: A Pentium III makes for a nice 2000 era emulation machine.
Many of the old DOS-based emulators like ZSNES, SNES9x, MESS/MAME, Raine, adripsx (DOS port), Genecyst, Nesticle or DOSBox (via HX Extender) could make good use of the CPU power.
Edit: I forgot to mention MagicEngine-FX, VICE, Executor, DOSUAE, HU6280, MEKA.. These are all 'bigger' emulators for DOS that won't run on a humble 486 anymore.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 10 of 12, by ux-3

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megatron-uk wrote on 2024-07-04, 05:55:

Even with setmul l1d, WC1 will be far too fast. With a DX4-100, Am586-133 and Cx586-120 using setmul alone for cache control does not bring the game down to an acceptable speed.

If you deprive a P3 of all the cache, it will be about as slow as a fully slowed down P1MMX under the best circumstances. If you can get the P3 slowed to 500 MHz and kill the cache, it is about right to play wing commander. Maybe even a bit too slow.
I used a P3-1000 FSB133 for this, as it could be used from 500-1000 MHz. It can create a Speedsys score from about 4-8 (where my 486 gets with deturbo), or run 500+. There is no other speed in between.

wbahnassi wrote on 2024-07-03, 22:41:

SetMul can disable the caches regardless of BIOS support, no?

I am not sure if it works. I have had best experience with Cacheon and Cacheoff in DOS. If he gets it fully off, he has a chance. L1 and L2.

Last edited by ux-3 on 2024-07-05, 04:45. Edited 1 time in total.

Retro PC warning: The things you own end up owning you.

Reply 11 of 12, by wbahnassi

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This cache thing works in a weird way. A P3 without caches goes down to an MMX, yet my Xeon 3.46GHz with caches disabled goes to a 386 DX 33! (as estimated by TopBench).

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, TSeng ET3000, SB 2.0, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 12 of 12, by ux-3

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wbahnassi wrote on 2024-07-04, 19:21:

A P3 without caches goes down to an MMX,

Sorry, but you understood me wrong! At least my P3 goes down to the level an mmx goes down to without cache! A speedsys score of 4-8 corresponds to a 386-16/33. For some reason, they run this slow. With a P2 at 166MHZ, you are too slow for Wing Commander once the cache is gone.

What I meant above: I can slow down a P2/3 more than a P1mmx, even when using Phil's slowdown tools. But I only can slow it down fully. There is no scaling in between.

Retro PC warning: The things you own end up owning you.