VOGONS


First post, by bimole

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Hi,

I've noticed audible difference between in-game music and MIDI files played with WMP (on Windows 95 and 98).
MIDI files are extracted directly fron the duke3d.grp file so they should be exactly the same as those played in the game.

Here is the description of this effect :
The right/left panned parts in the music are very quiet in the game so that thay may be sometimes inaudible.
This is particularly noticeable on "Watrwld1.mid", the soundtrack of Toxic Dump (E1L4) where you can hear panned harp arpeggios.
With the MIDI files in WMP, the panning effect is correct and you can hear all left-to-right-to left arpeggios notes.
In the game, left and right panned parts of arpeggios are very quiet so that you clearly hear only the "centered" notes of the arpeggios.

This is the same with other soundtracks, the sound is attenuated when it is panned in DN3D, but sounds OK in WMP.

This phenomenon happens with different platforms/sound cards using the same GM softsynth, Brooktree/Rockwell Wavestream :
- on an old Packard Bell PI 233MMX & 430VX plateform computer equipped with an ISA sound card (AZTECH AZT2320 chip)
- on a PIII i815e plateform with a Rockwell Riptide PCI sound/modem card (Rockwell RACC010 chip)
- on a virtual machine : the above Packard Bell machine "clone" on 86box with an emulation of Crystal CS4236b sound card (also Wavestream "compatible")

I have also tested with a Sound Blaster Audigy. The music is played in the same manner in the game or in WMP.
So this seems to be related to this very softsynth, Wavestream.

Has anybody already experienced this problem ? With this softsynth or another one ?

Reply 1 of 7, by Joseph_Joestar

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bimole wrote on 2024-07-14, 16:13:

Hi,

I've noticed audible difference between in-game music and MIDI files played with WMP (on Windows 95 and 98).
MIDI files are extracted directly fron the duke3d.grp file so they should be exactly the same as those played in the game.

Duke3D uses an API called EMIDI for music playback, so it won't sound correct when played outside of the game.

For more details, see Joe Siegler's comments which I've archived here.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Core 2 Duo E8600 / Foxconn P35AX-S / X800 / Audigy2 ZS
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 980Ti / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 2 of 7, by Stretch

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I suggest using the latest Falcosoft SoundFont Midi Player, since it supports EMIDI. The software works even in Windows 95.

Win 11 - Intel i7-1360p - 32 GB - Intel Iris Xe - Cubilux 7.1 USB

Reply 3 of 7, by bimole

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Thank you for your replies.

I've read about this EMIDI standard used inside the game.
Actually, I havn't noticed a significant difference between in-game and with WMP, with the Sound Blaster Audigy (on Watrwld1.mid for instance), but it is really different with the Wavestream softsynth.
With this softsynth, I think it sounds as it should in WMP and inaccurate in the game because bunches of notes are missing due to this improper panning/fading effect.

I suspect these "non-GM-standard controller events" Joe Siegler is talking about to be not well supported by Wavestream...

I'll try to record an audio file to make you hear the difference.

Reply 4 of 7, by bimole

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Hi,

Here below are two records from my Packard Bell machine (some hiss in the sound is clearly audible...)
I has been recorded directly out from the sound card's output by a Roland Quad Capture.
I tried to do my best to balance the volume on both versions.

Some "sound markers":
at 0:10 : brass theme is more present in DN3D
at 0:52 : low brass theme is more present in DN3D
at 1:10 : missing brass fifths notes in DN3D
Overall low strings are more present in WMP
Panned hi strings more presents in WMP

Overall mixing sounds spatially better in WMP (better panning)
In DN3D it sounds like if some polyphony was missing sometimes (missing notes)
Anyway, this is the typical sound of the Wavestream GM soundset, and I really love it. It has some in-your-face character even if this is only 22kHz samples.
Drums are particularly good (especially the snare).

Stalker "WMP version"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13N1FM4NYmC6M … ?usp=drive_link

Stalker "DN3D version"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PBaPH0Td4ZM7 … ?usp=drive_link

Reply 6 of 7, by Stretch

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I can't download the samples.

Win 11 - Intel i7-1360p - 32 GB - Intel Iris Xe - Cubilux 7.1 USB