For something era appropriate, I'd go with a Matrox Millenium II or Mystique. The latter is what I currently have in my own PPro system.

Another decent option might be the TNT2 M64 (PCI version).

I know you mention you don't want to pay 3dfx prices, but a Voodoo or Vodoo2 would also be era appropriate for 3D gaming in that era.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-07-30, 18:57:

For something era appropriate, I'd go with a Matrox Millenium II or Mystique. The latter is what I currently have in my own PPro system.

Another decent option might be the TNT2 M64 (PCI version).

I know you mention you don't want to pay 3dfx prices, but a Voodoo or Vodoo2 would also be era appropriate for 3D gaming in that era.

I installed a few dozen Compaq professional workstation 5000 dual pentium pro systems back in the day. They came with Matrox Millenium II PCI video cards and I think they did dual monitor, but of the fancier setups got a PCI Gloria-L 3D that had some sort of proprietary multi flat panel monitor for quad or 8 screens.

Edit: Scratch that, it was a STB MVP (Multi-View Professional) setup.

I'd think an appropriate video card would be like a professional-minded sicko rather than lowest common denominator gamer "3dFx VooDoo BEST" stuff. Millennium II's a great start on that part. FireGL is another thought.

Yes, any Matrox wil je perfect.
In fact, dual millennium would be even more perfect: NT4 drivers support dual head with 2 graphics cards.

My ppro system has an onboard Matrox and an added card with the same chip. Wonderful!

I'd skip anything 3DFX or gaming oriented. The ppro owns 32 bit territory but is a bit lacking on the 16 bit, where most games in this era are designed.

My Dual PPro also doubles as my early 3D accelerated gaming PC sitting between the non 3d 486 and P3 + Nvidia setup.
Therefore I picked a card from this list that which games interested me.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)

Personally I think the S3 Virge has the most interesting list and would suit the build if also targeting this era of gaming. I already had one in another system so went with the Matrox Mystique which is also doing well.
I do intend to install a Voodoo 1 as makes more sense to install here then my 486 or Slot 1 build and have nothing in between.

Dual PPro... first question is what you want to be doing with the system. Win98 is a bit pointless as it can't use the second CPU. WinNT 4.0 and Win2k are.

Then gaming - regardless of video card, basically SMP-aware gaming starts with Q3A, which even a dual PPro 200 can't hope to run adequately. So for gaming you're only going to use one CPU. Additionally, Win2k will run fine on this, but 2000-era games won't, and NT4 is limited in its support for gaming (although I remember fondly our office Half Life LAN parties with NT4 on awful i810 Celeron systems). So you're probably stuck in non-accelerated gaming anyway.

In that case, I'd suggest rather going for some obscure big-ass workstation OpenGL card that matches the dual PPro in age and purpose. Things like the 3DLabs GLint 500TX on the Elsa Gloria L/M, or a Permedia NT on the Diamond Fire GL1000. At a push they can render GLQuake too.

3dlabs is absolutely the best choice.

Matrox had awful or non existent opengl support on period appropriate cards. That was a deal breaker for professional 3d acceleration. Amazingly good for 2d acceleration though.

3dfx cards were fast, but rendering quality wasn't that good. Not really appropriate for a workstation type build.

Sounds like a server, so RageXL, I don't make the rules 🤣

Kidding but TNT should be the cost efficient option, though Rage128 wouldn't be bad either if one pops up, they're less common to find.

NT4 + Intergraph Intense 3D are natural fit for this workstation in my opinion.
Consumer level graphics cards and w9x or 2k will be pointless.

Btw, did you consider the 1mb l2 cache blacktop ppros ?
So far havent seen a real pumped system sporting them.

dionb wrote on 2024-07-31, 00:27:

Dual PPro... first question is what you want to be doing with the system. Win98 is a bit pointless as it can't use the second CPU.

I'd suggest rather going for some obscure big-ass workstation OpenGL card that matches the dual PPro in age and purpose. Things like the 3DLabs GLint 500TX on the Elsa Gloria L/M, or a Permedia NT on the Diamond Fire GL1000. At a push they can render GLQuake too.

Forgot about the CPU limits in Win 9x. I'm building the system mostly because I just find the hardware neat. No real specific purpose here other than I think "dual Pentium Pro's" sounds cool. Gaming is not really a priority for me. I would like to try some stuff out on the system, but I don't care too much about the gaming performance. It is a Pentium Pro after all.

That aside, I would like to use the computer as a bridge machine that can take files off of a USB stick and make/image floppies for my other computers, hence why I'm floating the idea of 2000. I heard USB in NT 4.0 isn't really a thing. I also want a machine to hook up to my old IC programmers and compile CUPL code for PAL's/CPLD's, and the software for those things was developed in the mid to late 90's so it seems appropriate.

I like the idea of a workstation graphics card, but they don't seem to be that easy to find. They also seem to command high prices.

pshipkov wrote on 2024-07-31, 07:17:

NT4 + Intergraph Intense 3D are natural fit for this workstation in my opinion. Consumer level graphics cards and w9x or 2k will […]
Show full quote

NT4 + Intergraph Intense 3D are natural fit for this workstation in my opinion.
Consumer level graphics cards and w9x or 2k will be pointless.

Btw, did you consider the 1mb l2 cache blacktop ppros ?
So far havent seen a real pumped system sporting them.

I know about the 1mb models, but I really couldn't justify spending that much for so little gain. On top of that, finding heatsinks for Socket 8 is such a pain. I found a good deal for a pair of 512KB's that came with heatsinks, so I just went with them. Plus, if I'm going to try to max out a build, I'd rather go for Pentium II overdrives at that point.

Dual x86 CPU computer require an Operating system that can support dual CPU’s.
WinNT 3.5.1
WinNT 4.0
Win-2000
Linux

I would go with Win-2000 because it has better game play an compatibility than WinNT

As for Video card you could go with a
Voodoo-3
Riva TNT
Nvidia Geforce
ATI Rage
Dual Head Matrox G400/G450 for Dual monitor support

willmurray461 wrote on 2024-07-31, 14:19:

[...]

Forgot about the CPU limits in Win 9x. I'm building the system mostly because I just find the hardware neat. No real specific purpose here other than I think "dual Pentium Pro's" sounds cool. Gaming is not really a priority for me. I would like to try some stuff out on the system, but I don't care too much about the gaming performance. It is a Pentium Pro after all.

That aside, I would like to use the computer as a bridge machine that can take files off of a USB stick and make/image floppies for my other computers, hence why I'm floating the idea of 2000. I heard USB in NT 4.0 isn't really a thing. I also want a machine to hook up to my old IC programmers and compile CUPL code for PAL's/CPLD's, and the software for those things was developed in the mid to late 90's so it seems appropriate.

Sounds like Win2k would be appropriate then, given your USB use case (and better than Win98SE that needs hacking to get anything beyond USB HID working) - at least, so long as the IC programmers work with it.

I like the idea of a workstation graphics card, but they don't seem to be that easy to find. They also seem to command high prices.

High and low. If you go onto a well-known auction site and want to buy now, you'll get fleeced - but you'd be surprised how often even now this sort of stuff gets dumped by companies and then either literally ends up in the dumpster or gets sold for low prices to anyone willing to pick up. Recently got my hands on a PPro (only 166MHz 256k unfortunately) and a Matrox Millennium for free that way and have seen FireGL cards go the same way. Does require a lot of looking and considerable patience though...

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-07-31, 17:12:

I would go with Win-2000 because it has better game play an compatibility than WinNT

I agree that Win-2000 is going to be the way to go if you go Windows. Best software compatibility. Decent UI. Least multi-cpu headaches. PPro still has enough performance to float the bloat.

For a graphics card, I'd still go with the Matrox Millennium family. It fits the time period, the image quality is usually great, and the dos compatibility is pretty good.

Does the P6np5 board support dual CPU?
https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/asus-p-i-p6np5

I see that this one does:
https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/asus-p-i-p65up8

I made a typo, I'm using the ASUS P/I-P65UP5, not the NP5.

pshipkov wrote on 2024-07-31, 07:17:

NT4 + Intergraph Intense 3D are natural fit for this workstation in my opinion. Consumer level graphics cards and w9x or 2k will […]
Show full quote

NT4 + Intergraph Intense 3D are natural fit for this workstation in my opinion.
Consumer level graphics cards and w9x or 2k will be pointless.

Btw, did you consider the 1mb l2 cache blacktop ppros ?
So far havent seen a real pumped system sporting them.

I have a single CPU blacktop system in a VS440FX board OC'd to 233. Runs windows 98SE. For graphics I use a Diamond branded Virge and v2 SLI...

It is a pretty nice 98 setup IMO

That would have racked up preposterous frame rates in diablo and interstate 76 back in the spring of 1997.

OK so I might have made a stupid impulse buy, but I ended up getting one of those "big-ass workstation OpenGL cards." It's a Dynamic Pictures Oxygen 402, a quad-chip professional card from 1997. It ended up costing around what a Voodoo 3 would have, but it looked too cool for me to pass up. The problem now is the fact that the card only has drivers for NT 4.0 and not 2000, so I'll have to install 3rd party software if I want to get FAT32 and USB. Either way though, NT 4.0 is probably more appropriate for a Pentium Pro. Anyone here ever use one of these?

dionb wrote on 2024-07-31, 17:30:

Recently got my hands on a PPro (only 166MHz 256k unfortunately) and a Matrox Millennium for free that way and have seen FireGL cards go the same way. Does require a lot of looking and considerable patience though...

Weren't the 166s only made as 512k version?

willmurray461 wrote on 2024-08-01, 13:27:

OK so I might have made a stupid impulse buy, but I ended up getting one of those "big-ass workstation OpenGL cards." It's a Dynamic Pictures Oxygen 402, a quad-chip professional card from 1997. It ended up costing around what a Voodoo 3 would have, but it looked too cool for me to pass up. The problem now is the fact that the card only has drivers for NT 4.0 and not 2000, so I'll have to install 3rd party software if I want to get FAT32 and USB. Either way though, NT 4.0 is probably more appropriate for a Pentium Pro. Anyone here ever use one of these?

That is one impressive card!

Supposedly, NT4 video drivers will frequently work under Win2k. No idea if that also applies to a beast as complex as this, but it's worth a try. Otherwise, I'd suggest moving the 'bridge system' use case to a different computer, as NT4 and USB really is very limited.

H3nrik V! wrote on 2024-08-01, 22:00:

[...]
Weren't the 166s only made as 512k version?

Ugh, remembered incorrectly: checked and it's a PPro200/256, not 166.