VOGONS


First post, by BitWrangler

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Hi folks,

Recently got a "thrown in" external HDD case, which has USB and Firewire connections, then in another box, got a 3 port Belikin PCI firewire card with the TI chipset. The HDD enclosure takes a 3.5" drive, so I can put a decent size in there. I think I may have had another external that was small and kinda "sealed blob" construction that I ignored for not being real useful in size, and also may have ignored another card or two. The point being, a 3.5 enclosure with USB alternate, feels potentially useful enough to actually want to try using it on firewire.

There feels like there would be a sweetspot to use it for socket7 and 7+, slot 1 and 370 motherboards that have mediocre or entirely absent USB 1.1 connectivity only, and USB 2.0 cards are also all kinds of a pain in the ass. In theory, the S400 speed could exceed the native IDE interface speeds seen on much of this class, with some not even doing DMA33. So if that "small" hdd turns up it might get to be a Win98 swap drive 🤣 (I think 98 refuses to swap on removable though)

So I am interested in exploring whether in general for 100-1000 Mhz systems, firewire cards are much nicer than messing with USB connected external/swappable storage. I have a vague notion about a Win98 based "grand central station" "tweener" rig for supporting all the lower and slower stuff, halfway point from modern modern. So fastish data dumps to and from that would be useful. Stretch goal might be figuring how to switch the USB/Firewire capable drive between USB and firewire, so I can have it hooked up as a network drive via USB to a router, and can just dump from any networked machine, at at least n300 or wired gigabit speeds to that disk and then read it off through firewire on the 98 box.

Though also I hear of firewire "being like a network" "can be used as a network" but not seeing much further clarity on that. Thinking it could be good to have a 98 box twinned with a more modern platform through a firewire link and use it's storage etc. Yeah pretty much meaning I'd use a laptop with nasty screen and keyboard as an oversize external HDD with wifi.

Well anyway, what is anyone else doing with it in a retro context? I was in a "don't bother with it" kind of phase until now when it seemed I had accidentally collected enough of a critical mass of firewire bits to "do something'

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 1 of 6, by Disruptor

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I have had 2 FW400 connectors in my Shuttle SV25 barebone. It contains the FV25 motherboard.
I had the choice between 12 MBit/s USB and 400 MBit/s Firewire to connect external hard drives.

Reply 2 of 6, by digger

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For what it's worth, a new volunteer stepped up last year to pick up the maintenance of Firewire support in the Linux kernel, and pledged to continue maintaining it until 2029.

Reply 3 of 6, by BitWrangler

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Disruptor wrote on 2024-08-04, 15:57:

I have had 2 FW400 connectors in my Shuttle SV25 barebone. It contains the FV25 motherboard.
I had the choice between 12 MBit/s USB and 400 MBit/s Firewire to connect external hard drives.

Yeah it just started kinda turning up on stuff from about 2000 onwards, I think HP/Compaq stuck it on quite a few laptops, and it appeared on a few GPUs too, mainly the 4 pin.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 4 of 6, by BitWrangler

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digger wrote on 2024-08-04, 17:04:

For what it's worth, a new volunteer stepped up last year to pick up the maintenance of Firewire support in the Linux kernel, and pledged to continue maintaining it until 2029.

Woohoo, deathmatch between firewire and PS/2 for last man standing pre-2000 interface 🤣 Yeah it's good to know it's got some forward going support in that quarter.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 5 of 6, by ElectroSoldier

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Firewire is 20th century hardware. It was about for Windows 98 but it was expensive and considered to be an apple thing, but PCs had it too.
Yes I have firewire on one of my Win98 PCs. It is an Adaptec HotConnect AHA-8945. A 1394/Ultra Wide SCSI PCI card.
I have a slot loading Pioneer DVD-ROM in an external box and an old LaCie firewire external hard drive plugged into it.

Firewire networking is possible. Ive never looked into setting it up on Win98, I dont know if its possible on Win98, I know it can be done on Win2k which I found out by accident when I was being lazy by plugging two computers (Win2k and XP) into the same external DVD I mentioned above.
The two computers networked themselves together which I only found out when I run a network interface announcer I used on IRC.
They were connected at 400mbps, which was amazing at the time because while 1000mpbs networking was possible it was prohibitively expensive.
I perfer Firenet networking between XP machines. But now 1gig networking is ubiquitous so it isnt what it was, but i still like it.

XP installs a firenet adapter if you want it to.

Reply 6 of 6, by Errius

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Yes, I remember connecting Windows XP computers together using FireWire. As you say, this was much a faster connection than Fast Ethernet, let alone WiFi.

One thing I liked about FireWire is that it carried considerable current so that devices like external drives didn't need their own power supplies. (However this was also a problem, as a worn or damaged FW connector could result in you zapping your computer and/or peripheral to death.)

Unfortunately the FW implementation of Windows post-XP is broken. I have several FW devices (external hard/optical drive units) that don't work properly when plugged into Windows 7/8.1/10. They work fine in XP.

Is this too much voodoo?