Take the cheapest slotket coppermine capable and a high frequency coppermine Pentium.
Your board should support 133mhz FSB.
Use a Nvidia agp card with 133mhz FSB cpu and you are good to go.

Unfortunately theres no coppermmine P3's up for sale locally atm. Was considering buy both a sloket (for future sake) and the Pentium II

Thanks for confirming that they work on the board!

Search anywhere online… There is plenty of old chips.

000557A wrote on 2024-08-27, 04:25:

Hi all, I recently fixed up a AOpen AX6BC with the 440BX Chipset. […]
Show full quote

Hi all, I recently fixed up a AOpen AX6BC with the 440BX Chipset.

I was wondering which of the following options (for processor) I should go for.
- Pentium II 266mhz (Klamath) (~$10)
- a Slocket setup with a Celeron 733 (~$5 to $20)

If I go with the Slocket I can choose between :
- a Asus model ($20)
- 2 generic celeron-only models ($5 each)
- 1 that supports a coppermine cpu, but damaged. (10)

I am relatively new to this stuff, so I have no idea if a Slocket would even work
My main goal is to have a reliable system for testing older graphics cards, possibly playing some older games

What would you guys pick for this setup?

Any advice is much appreciated, thank you!

For testing video cards, any CPU that boots should be fine. For testing purposed don't go overclocking stuff (you only want to have one unknown factor, the device under test), so I'd say the advice above to go for 133MHz is bad advice for this use case.

As for "older games" - could you be more specific? There's over a factor five difference between the slowest and fastest CPUs you could stick on this board and over a factor two between the two you mention. Which is best depends on what it's supposed to be good at. Faster isn't always better.

Then the slockets. That's a bit of a rabbit hole. There are two crucial things to keep track of, and they explain the different types and descriptions of the slockets.

1) there were three different versions of the Socket 370 pinout, called PPGA, FC-PGA and FC-PGA2. There was limited backwards compatibility and no forwards compatibility: FC-PGA sockets worked with PPGA CPUs but not the other way round, FC-PGA2 sockets worked with FC-PGA CPUs but not PPGA CPUs or the other way round. When the first slockets were released, there was only the PPGA socket and the Mendocino Celeron So370 CPU. So the oldest slockets will have no jumpers or indications. Then the So370 FC-PGA Pentium 3 Coppermine was released. PPGA slockets were now referred to as "Celeron only" as they only supported the PPGA pinout of Mendocino Celeron CPUs. Then a while later FC-PGA Coppermine Celeron CPUs were released which would not work in PPGA "Celeron only" slockets. At this point slockets started being called "FC-PGA". Then quite a bit later the FC-PGA2 Pentium an Celeron Tualains were released and a small number of slockets (by this time Slot 1 was end of life) supported them. TLDR: go for a slocket marked "FC-PGA" If you want to be able to run a Celeron 766, or indeed a P3-1000.

2) different generations of Pentium 2 and 3 CPUs used different voltages. Intel updated the voltage regulator spec half way through the Slot 1 lifespan. To use Coppermine or Tualatin CPUs in-spec, you need a board that supports the later voltage regulator spec. Fortunatly your AX6BC does so. But what if yours doesn't? A lot of Coppermine CPUs were specced between 1.65 and 1.75V, but could be run safely at 1.8V. However the voltage regulator was designed not to do anything if the CPU asked for a voltage it didn't recognize. So later FC-PGA slockets came with voltage jumpers that let you set a different voltage than what the CPU asked for (i.e. 1.8V, supported by basically all Slot 1 boards). Note that this just tells the motherboard which voltage to deliver, it does not actually change the voltage. There are a few slockets with voltage regulators (particularly for Tualatin FC-PGA2), but they are unobtainium. You can recognize them by the extra circuitry. TLDR: very relevant for some people, not for you, unless you get an FC-PGA2 CPU.

I would say ASUS slocket. IIRC there are ways to slow down any 370 chip to desired speeds and you have a much broader array of chips to choose from.

Oh, and you can even go exotic with VIa C3 chips!

What do you mean by "testing" older graphics cards?

If you want to push the graphics cards towards their limits,
or play games with higher framerates, then celeron 733 is needed, and a slotket.
(Pentium II 266 could/would be a bottleneck in this case.)

If you just want to see them working then pentium II 266 is easier, no need to deal with slotkets.
(But expect low to average framerates for later games.)

dionb wrote on 2024-08-27, 11:02:

For testing video cards, any CPU that boots should be fine. For testing purposed don't go overclocking stuff (you only want to h […]
Show full quote

000557A wrote on 2024-08-27, 04:25:

Hi all, I recently fixed up a AOpen AX6BC with the 440BX Chipset. […]
Show full quote

Hi all, I recently fixed up a AOpen AX6BC with the 440BX Chipset.

I was wondering which of the following options (for processor) I should go for.
- Pentium II 266mhz (Klamath) (~$10)
- a Slocket setup with a Celeron 733 (~$5 to $20)

If I go with the Slocket I can choose between :
- a Asus model ($20)
- 2 generic celeron-only models ($5 each)
- 1 that supports a coppermine cpu, but damaged. (10)

I am relatively new to this stuff, so I have no idea if a Slocket would even work
My main goal is to have a reliable system for testing older graphics cards, possibly playing some older games

What would you guys pick for this setup?

Any advice is much appreciated, thank you!

For testing video cards, any CPU that boots should be fine. For testing purposed don't go overclocking stuff (you only want to have one unknown factor, the device under test), so I'd say the advice above to go for 133MHz is bad advice for this use case.

As for "older games" - could you be more specific? There's over a factor five difference between the slowest and fastest CPUs you could stick on this board and over a factor two between the two you mention. Which is best depends on what it's supposed to be good at. Faster isn't always better.

Then the slockets. That's a bit of a rabbit hole. There are two crucial things to keep track of, and they explain the different types and descriptions of the slockets.

1) there were three different versions of the Socket 370 pinout, called PPGA, FC-PGA and FC-PGA2. There was limited backwards compatibility and no forwards compatibility: FC-PGA sockets worked with PPGA CPUs but not the other way round, FC-PGA2 sockets worked with FC-PGA CPUs but not PPGA CPUs or the other way round. When the first slockets were released, there was only the PPGA socket and the Mendocino Celeron So370 CPU. So the oldest slockets will have no jumpers or indications. Then the So370 FC-PGA Pentium 3 Coppermine was released. PPGA slockets were now referred to as "Celeron only" as they only supported the PPGA pinout of Mendocino Celeron CPUs. Then a while later FC-PGA Coppermine Celeron CPUs were released which would not work in PPGA "Celeron only" slockets. At this point slockets started being called "FC-PGA". Then quite a bit later the FC-PGA2 Pentium an Celeron Tualains were released and a small number of slockets (by this time Slot 1 was end of life) supported them. TLDR: go for a slocket marked "FC-PGA" If you want to be able to run a Celeron 766, or indeed a P3-1000.

2) different generations of Pentium 2 and 3 CPUs used different voltages. Intel updated the voltage regulator spec half way through the Slot 1 lifespan. To use Coppermine or Tualatin CPUs in-spec, you need a board that supports the later voltage regulator spec. Fortunatly your AX6BC does so. But what if yours doesn't? A lot of Coppermine CPUs were specced between 1.65 and 1.75V, but could be run safely at 1.8V. However the voltage regulator was designed not to do anything if the CPU asked for a voltage it didn't recognize. So later FC-PGA slockets came with voltage jumpers that let you set a different voltage than what the CPU asked for (i.e. 1.8V, supported by basically all Slot 1 boards). Note that this just tells the motherboard which voltage to deliver, it does not actually change the voltage. There are a few slockets with voltage regulators (particularly for Tualatin FC-PGA2), but they are unobtainium. You can recognize them by the extra circuitry. TLDR: very relevant for some people, not for you, unless you get an FC-PGA2 CPU.

> As for "older games" - could you be more specific?
I was planning on playing Counter Strike and some of the older Need For Speed games
I think the 266 should handle this fine, correct?

Seeing as you are quite knowledgeable on the slocket side of things:
None of them have the words "FC-PGA" on it. So I have to make a decision based off of the whether or not they have jumpers, correct?

Also for the 10 dollar one I mentioned above, it has no buffer IC and "probably" won't work well with a "Shimmed Tualatin". (Quoted from the ad)
So should I stay away from that one? It does support VIA chips however.

PlaneVuki wrote on 2024-08-27, 12:03:

What do you mean by "testing" older graphics cards? […]
Show full quote

What do you mean by "testing" older graphics cards?

If you want to push the graphics cards towards their limits,
or play games with higher framerates, then celeron 733 is needed, and a slotket.
(pentium II 266 could/would be a bottleneck in this case)

If you just want to see them working then pentium II 266 is easier, no need to deal with slotkets.

I'll just be running benchmarks and games to test stability of 3.3v AGP cards, because at the moment, I do not own a system with a universal AGP port/3.3v agp

On a different note:
If these slocket adapters are worth keeping around / are slightly sought after, I wouldn't mind splurging a little and going for the Asus 133mhz one
And I just looked on ebay, indeed the prices of the Coppermines aren't too bad!

I looked around the internet, and I found this site: "http://web.archive.org/web/20010818060419/htt … f/converter.htm"
(Use webarchive to see)

Fortunately, says that my board is one of the recommended lot numbers.

I assume that running Asus/No-name card on this board won't have too much instability issues then (?)

000557A wrote on 2024-08-27, 12:14:

Seeing as you are quite knowledgeable on the slocket side of things:
None of them have the words "FC-PGA" on it. So I have to make a decision based off of the whether or not they have jumpers, correct?

There are exeptions to that rule of fist. There were over twenty different models of PPGA ' Celeron only' slotkets marketed with voltage jumpers starting with 1.8 volt or even 1.3 volt that were nevertheless -not- supporting Coppermine cpu's. Some of them are still on offer on Ebay. Before you make a choice better post photos here of the ones that you are considering.

000557A wrote on 2024-08-27, 12:14:

[...] […]
Show full quote

[...]

> As for "older games" - could you be more specific?
I was planning on playing Counter Strike and some of the older Need For Speed games
I think the 266 should handle this fine, correct?

CS 1.0 is from end 2000 and requires at least a P3-500 and recommended specs are at least a P3-800. CS 1.6 would need "1.7GHz CPU and Windows 7". Even for the 1.0 you'd want something beefier than the Celeron 766, let alone the 1997-era P2-266 (and 3 years in this era was a massive difference). I'd look for a P3-800E or higher instead. Note the "E", that means 100MHz FSB. Avoid "EB" CPUs with 133MHz FSB.

Seeing as you are quite knowledgeable on the slocket side of things: None of them have the words "FC-PGA" on it. So I have to m […]
Show full quote

Seeing as you are quite knowledgeable on the slocket side of things:
None of them have the words "FC-PGA" on it. So I have to make a decision based off of the whether or not they have jumpers, correct?

Also for the 10 dollar one I mentioned above, it has no buffer IC and "probably" won't work well with a "Shimmed Tualatin". (Quoted from the ad)
So should I stay away from that one?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Tualatin indicates FC-PGA2. So it sounds like the slocket isn't FC-PGA2 (which few are). It may still be an acceptably working FC-PGA slocket though. A buffer IC isn't a hard requirement for that.

It does support VIA chips however.

That's good news, but not conclusive, as Via C3 CPUs were made with a 'universal' CPGA package that should work on any *PGA motherboard or slocket.

Do you have links to or pic of these slockets?

I'll just be running benchmarks and games to test stability of 3.3v AGP cards, because at the moment, I do not own a system with a universal AGP port/3.3v agp

You still don't own one with a universal port - BX has an AGP 1.0 2x 3.3V only slot. Still, with a couple of very stupid exceptions (AGP 3.0 cards that only work with 0.8V but are - incorrectly - universally keyed anyway) anything that physically fits in the slot should work.

On a different note:
If these slocket adapters are worth keeping around / are slightly sought after, I wouldn't mind splurging a little and going for the Asus 133mhz one
And I just looked on ebay, indeed the prices of the Coppermines aren't too bad!

Problem with 133MHz is that you're overclocking the motherboard and the AGP port. Now, later i440BX boards usually handle 133MHz OK, but that's no guarantee yours will, and even if it boots at that speed, no guarantee it's completely stable. Same goes for AGP at 88MHz: most cards will work fine - but no guarantees. Fine for gaming or generally messing around (I have a BX system which is specifically not used for testing with P3-1400S in it running at 133MHz FSB), but if you want to know if a video card is stable, you need a rock-solid platform you can be sure about that also runs the card in-spec. This board offers that at 100MHz FSB.

Note that the FSB speed and the core type are not connected: there are Katmai P3 CPUs with 133MHz FSB and there are Coppermine P3 CPUs with 100MHz FSB. You can also get a 133MHz CPU and underclock it - P3 1GHz is as common as muck and runs at a very acceptable 750MHz if you set FSB to 100MHz.

dionb wrote on 2024-08-27, 13:48:

CS 1.0 is from end 2000 and requires at least a P3-500 and recommended specs are at least a P3-800. CS 1.6 would need "1.7GHz CP […]
Show full quote

000557A wrote on 2024-08-27, 12:14:

[...] […]
Show full quote

[...]

> As for "older games" - could you be more specific?
I was planning on playing Counter Strike and some of the older Need For Speed games
I think the 266 should handle this fine, correct?

CS 1.0 is from end 2000 and requires at least a P3-500 and recommended specs are at least a P3-800. CS 1.6 would need "1.7GHz CPU and Windows 7". Even for the 1.0 you'd want something beefier than the Celeron 766, let alone the 1997-era P2-266 (and 3 years in this era was a massive difference). I'd look for a P3-800E or higher instead. Note the "E", that means 100MHz FSB. Avoid "EB" CPUs with 133MHz FSB.

Seeing as you are quite knowledgeable on the slocket side of things: None of them have the words "FC-PGA" on it. So I have to m […]
Show full quote

Seeing as you are quite knowledgeable on the slocket side of things:
None of them have the words "FC-PGA" on it. So I have to make a decision based off of the whether or not they have jumpers, correct?

Also for the 10 dollar one I mentioned above, it has no buffer IC and "probably" won't work well with a "Shimmed Tualatin". (Quoted from the ad)
So should I stay away from that one?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Tualatin indicates FC-PGA2. So it sounds like the slocket isn't FC-PGA2 (which few are). It may still be an acceptably working FC-PGA slocket though. A buffer IC isn't a hard requirement for that.

It does support VIA chips however.

That's good news, but not conclusive, as Via C3 CPUs were made with a 'universal' CPGA package that should work on any *PGA motherboard or slocket.

Do you have links to or pic of these slockets?

I'll just be running benchmarks and games to test stability of 3.3v AGP cards, because at the moment, I do not own a system with a universal AGP port/3.3v agp

You still don't own one with a universal port - BX has an AGP 1.0 2x 3.3V only slot. Still, with a couple of very stupid exceptions (AGP 3.0 cards that only work with 0.8V but are - incorrectly - universally keyed anyway) anything that physically fits in the slot should work.

On a different note:
If these slocket adapters are worth keeping around / are slightly sought after, I wouldn't mind splurging a little and going for the Asus 133mhz one
And I just looked on ebay, indeed the prices of the Coppermines aren't too bad!

Problem with 133MHz is that you're overclocking the motherboard and the AGP port. Now, later i440BX boards usually handle 133MHz OK, but that's no guarantee yours will, and even if it boots at that speed, no guarantee it's completely stable. Same goes for AGP at 88MHz: most cards will work fine - but no guarantees. Fine for gaming or generally messing around (I have a BX system which is specifically not used for testing with P3-1400S in it running at 133MHz FSB), but if you want to know if a video card is stable, you need a rock-solid platform you can be sure about that also runs the card in-spec. This board offers that at 100MHz FSB.

Note that the FSB speed and the core type are not connected: there are Katmai P3 CPUs with 133MHz FSB and there are Coppermine P3 CPUs with 100MHz FSB. You can also get a 133MHz CPU and underclock it - P3 1GHz is as common as muck and runs at a very acceptable 750MHz if you set FSB to 100MHz.

Here is a link to images of the Slockets: https://imgur.com/a/DOql2DD

"You still don't own one with a universal port"
True, but I also have boards with 1.5V Agp, so I should be good on that front.

Problem with 133MHz is that you're overclocking the motherboard and the AGP port
I did not realize that! But couldn't that be circumvented by down clocking in bios (Is that even possible?)
but I guess one would argue it's smarter to just buy a processor with a 100mhz bus to begin with.

000557A wrote on 2024-08-28, 00:02:

[...]

Here is a link to images of the Slockets: https://imgur.com/a/DOql2DD

The first two with no jumpers could be anything. I'd assume PPGA until proven otherwise.

The last two look solidly FC-PGA and so should be good for a P3 CPU.

"You still don't own one with a universal port"
True, but I also have boards with 1.5V Agp, so I should be good on that front.

OK

Problem with 133MHz is that you're overclocking the motherboard and the AGP port
I did not realize that! But couldn't that be circumvented by down clocking in bios (Is that even possible?)
but I guess one would argue it's smarter to just buy a processor with a 100mhz bus to begin with.

The motherboard supplies FSB clock, but it's the chipset itself that derives AGP and PCI clocks from that, and the i440BX only supports 1:1 and 2:3 AGP dividers. So if you set FSB to 133MHz, your AGP will be 2/3 of that i.e. 88MHz.

Interestingly, a 1:4 PCI divider is supported, so PCI can stil be run at 33MHz at a 133MHz FSB. Note that not all BX boards support the 1:4 divider but your AX6BC does. If you had a board that didn't, 133MHz FSB would mean 44MHz PCI, which is way too fast and almost certain to cause HDD corruption issues (IDE controllers tend to be the weakest link when it comes to PCI overclocking, exactly where they fail differs, but anything over 40MHz is asking for trouble). The presence of the 1:4 PCI divider is what allows 133MHz operation to be feasible at all.

88MHz AGP isn't a disaster - cards generate their own clocks for core and memory speeds, so the latter are unaffected. It's only the bus you'll be overclocking and that doesn't often cause problems. But it can which is why you don't want that on a test system.

Hey thanks for the response! Ill probably end up buying the Asus one and picking a CPU off of Ebay .

Ill probably get rid of the old Celeron 733 as well, since its living in a old Compaq (Would be nice to sell)

Thanks for your help!

000557A wrote on 2024-08-28, 00:02:

Here is a link to images of the Slockets: https://imgur.com/a/DOql2DD

On photo #6 with all four slotkets from left to right:
ASUS S370-133 = Coppermine ready with all necessary jumpers
PCChips rev 1.5 = Celeron only
AA 370P (Evercool distribution)) = Coppermine ready, jumperless
Eagle 43C = Coppermine ready with all necessary jumpers

I also own an Aopen AX6BC. It has a small anoying drawback over the ASUS P3B-F that will matter here:
It does not allow setting the FSB to 66 if the cpu wants 100. I am not sure how it will respond with a 133 CPU. It may well be that 66 is not available.

On my ASUS I often used a 1000@133. That way, I can clock very fluently from 500 MHz to 1000 MHz. Taking the cache out will turn this into a 286/386 type machine.
I have switched to 1000@100 because I no longer use the slowdown on this machine.

ux-3 wrote on 2024-08-28, 10:14:

I also own an Aopen AX6BC. It has a small anoying drawback over the ASUS P3B-F that will matter here: It does not allow setting […]
Show full quote

I also own an Aopen AX6BC. It has a small anoying drawback over the ASUS P3B-F that will matter here:
It does not allow setting the FSB to 66 if the cpu wants 100. I am not sure how it will respond with a 133 CPU. It may well be that 66 is not available.

On my ASUS I often used a 1000@133. That way, I can clock very fluently from 500 MHz to 1000 MHz. Taking the cache out will turn this into a 286/386 type machine.
I have switched to 1000@100 because I no longer use the slowdown on this machine.

If you don't mind me asking, which batch number is your board? I'm wondering this because AOpen explicitly said something about some batches being better than others. I'm guessing the 66mhz FSB probably going to exist on all AX6BC boards but regardless, I am curious about your experience using slockets in that board (stability, etc)

PARKE wrote on 2024-08-28, 08:44:

On photo #6 with all four slotkets from left to right: ASUS S370-133 = Coppermine ready with all necessary jumpers PCChips rev 1 […]
Show full quote

000557A wrote on 2024-08-28, 00:02:

Here is a link to images of the Slockets: https://imgur.com/a/DOql2DD

On photo #6 with all four slotkets from left to right:
ASUS S370-133 = Coppermine ready with all necessary jumpers
PCChips rev 1.5 = Celeron only
AA 370P (Evercool distribution)) = Coppermine ready, jumperless
Eagle 43C = Coppermine ready with all necessary jumpers

Absolute GOD send. I have no idea how you would even go about identifying these!

000557A wrote on 2024-08-28, 21:35:

If you don't mind me asking, which batch number is your board? I'm wondering this because AOpen explicitly said something about some batches being better than others. I'm guessing the 66mhz FSB probably going to exist on all AX6BC boards but regardless, I am curious about your experience using slockets in that board (stability, etc)

The board does allow 66 MHz _IF_ such a CPU is installed, but not otherwise. It only allows FSB overclocking, not underclocking.
My experience with slockets is limited to two, and they work in both boards with coppermines. The biggest enemy to stability is lack of physical rigidity, I simply used hot glue to give it more support.
The one I actually use is an Asus S370-133, the other has no name.

My AOPEN Boards are stored away, so I have no fast access to the revision, sorry.

000557A wrote on 2024-08-28, 21:41:

PARKE wrote on 2024-08-28, 08:44:

On photo #6 with all four slotkets from left to right: ASUS S370-133 = Coppermine ready with all necessary jumpers PCChips rev 1 […]
Show full quote

000557A wrote on 2024-08-28, 00:02:

Here is a link to images of the Slockets: https://imgur.com/a/DOql2DD

On photo #6 with all four slotkets from left to right:
ASUS S370-133 = Coppermine ready with all necessary jumpers
PCChips rev 1.5 = Celeron only
AA 370P (Evercool distribution)) = Coppermine ready, jumperless
Eagle 43C = Coppermine ready with all necessary jumpers

Absolute GOD send. I have no idea how you would even go about identifying these!

During Covid I made an 'all there is to know about slotkets' inventory. An early version you can download here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kGgO3TJyFDTH … y4wVj4GJBY/view