Have you tried running Win2000 or XP? Or some flavour of Linux?

VivienM wrote on 2024-08-30, 17:16:

Have you tried running Win2000 or XP? Or some flavour of Linux?

No, that is not the goal of the build.
But maybe i can try that for troubleshooting

I’d certainly try with real IDE HDD or with known working IDE SATA adapter and SATA SSD or HDD. It is well known fact that some of these adapters and SD cards cause lags, freezes and so on.

Although I don’t think that the issue is with MB in this case, at least before testing with different HDD, those electrolytic capacitors can fail without bulging or leaking and only way to know is to measure them off circuit.

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2024-08-31, 14:31:

I’d certainly try with real IDE HDD or with known working IDE SATA adapter and SATA SSD or HDD. It is well known fact that some of these adapters and SD cards cause lags, freezes and so on.

Although I don’t think that the issue is with MB in this case, at least before testing with different HDD, those electrolytic capacitors can fail without bulging or leaking and only way to know is to measure them off circuit.

Thanks, i will try with a real harddrive, if i can find a good one.
Sounds like the SD Card adapter solution is the issue here...

I use one of those Sil311x SATA PCI cards on a Pentium III system. You can read about them elsewhere on the forum, including the need to flash its ROM from RAID mode to IDE compatibility mode.
It's better to use those and do away with all these compatibility issues once and for all. Windows 98SE just sees it like a SCSI card.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2024-08-31, 16:03:

I use one of those Sil311x SATA PCI cards on a Pentium III system. You can read about them elsewhere on the forum, including the need to flash its ROM from RAID mode to IDE compatibility mode.
It's better to use those and do away with all these compatibility issues once and for all. Windows 98SE just sees it like a SCSI card.

Sounds like a solid (state) solution 😀
I am also looking at a CF to IDE adapater.

Thx

Usually the CompactFlash and SD card solutions are recommended for 8088/286/386/486, DOS-oriented systems.
They aren't really designed to perform well for the disk activity of a full-on multitasking OS.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2024-08-31, 16:53:

Usually the CompactFlash and SD card solutions are recommended for 8088/286/386/486, DOS-oriented systems.
They aren't really designed to perform well for the disk activity of a full-on multitasking OS.

Great, thx 😀
I will try the other method
The PCI card with a SSD drive, pref. 120gb or something like that i guess would be fine

I have Startech IDE-SATA adapters in my win98 and XP boxes with SSD drives in both. They are cheap, easy to find and have been working without any issues.

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2024-08-31, 18:16:

I have Startech IDE-SATA adapters in my win98 and XP boxes with SSD drives in both. They are cheap, easy to find and have been working without any issues.

I agree StarTech is overall better than JMicron and works in a higher percentage of situations, but it's no panacea. They work best on Win98SE and XP era hardware, i.e. Socket 370 or newer. On older systems, in a quick experiment on my PIIX3, PIIX4 and UM8881 based Socket 5/Socket 7 boards, both the StarTech and JMicron adapters either randomly disable the secondary IDE interface when the converter is connected to primary IDE (UM8881+StarTech, and not 100% sure of it as I tested about a year ago, but I think 430HX+StarTech also), or have massive data corruption issues when my PNY 240GB SSD is connected through the adapter (430TX+JMicron and 430TX+StarTech), or MultiWord DMA doesn't work through them (430HX+JMicron), or some random combination of those issues.

As I still have a few 40GB native IDE drives that (known issues like the Award 32GB bug aside, which can be worked around by setting a Host Protected Area) work perfectly on every IDE interface I have--whether that's XT-IDE, an ISA Multi-IO card in a 386 or 486, quirky VLB IDE interfaces with acceleration features, or early PCI IDE, I very quickly get frustrated with the SATA-IDE converters.

It doesn't help that the StarTech ones use floppy power which you're always short on with the power supply, and the "floppy to molex" adapters last like three insertions before the Molex pins break free of the adapter, leaving bare wires dangling in your case as they work themselves loose over time once they break free.

Whatever you do, avoid those SATA-IDE converters that claim to be able to work in either direction (SATA drive+IDE computer, or SATA computer+IDE drive). I tried one of those, it didn't work, and the SATA header snapped right off the board after about five insertions.

The CompactFlash adapters are supposed to have the benefit that CompactFlash has a 100% compatible native IDE mode available. Nope. Using one on my UMC 481-based 386, it locks up the machine unless the IORDY pin on the IDE part is snipped off, which then works great on the 386, but that pin is needed for faster PIO modes on faster machines. That might come down to adapter quality though as I was using the cheapest ebay one (as I wrongly thought CompactFlash == IDE but it actually comes down to how the adapter is wired).

The last run of newly-made IDE drives was the early 2010s and the 40GB and bigger ones were nearly silent in operation, as quiet as a SATA HDD. If they were still made, in my opinion there would be no reason to tinker with this converter trash. Even better, spinning drives support Multi Sector transfers and SSDs don't and when you don't have DMA as on 99% of ISA/VLB systems, Multi Sector is the single biggest performance enhancer once you've maxed out the fastest PIO mode it can do. But I'm glad these things do exists to future-proof our systems' storage as IDE drives inevitably fail or sound like angle grinders over the next decade or two, especially for hardware & software that is too old too old to take advantage of the SATA PCI cards.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2024-08-31, 18:47:

[ They work best on Win98SE and XP era hardware, i.e. Socket 370 or newer.

That is exactly what OP is running, so there is most likely zero issues and why I suggested it. It is by far the easiest solution for OPs most likely problem. I haven't had any issues with adapters or wires becoming disconnected, but I'm not moving my systems around so there is that. You might need some floppy power adapters or make those yoruself, if using modern PSUs which may lack floppy power connectors all together. I'm personally using recapped vintage PSUs, which usually have at least two, so I haven't had any problems with those either.

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2024-08-31, 19:05:

jakethompson1 wrote on 2024-08-31, 18:47:

[ They work best on Win98SE and XP era hardware, i.e. Socket 370 or newer.

That is exactly what OP is running, so there is most likely zero issues and why I suggested it. It is by far the easiest solution for OPs most likely problem. I haven't had any issues with adapters or wires becoming unconnected, but I'm not moving my systems around so there is that. You might need some floppy power adapters or make those yoruself, if using modern PSUs which may lack floppy power connectors all together. I'm personally using recapped vintage PSUs, which usually have at least two, so I haven't had any problems with those either.

Maybe i will go down this route, as long as it works better than my SD to IDE adapter i am satisfied.
Floppy power is no problem.

Perhaps i will try both ways or start with the Startech adapter and see.
I have to get a SSD anyway i guess, a 120gb drive should cover my needs.

Thx

pskjonte wrote on 2024-08-31, 20:05:

Maybe i will go down this route, as long as it works better than my SD to IDE adapter i am satisfied. Floppy power is no problem […]
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CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2024-08-31, 19:05:

jakethompson1 wrote on 2024-08-31, 18:47:

[ They work best on Win98SE and XP era hardware, i.e. Socket 370 or newer.

That is exactly what OP is running, so there is most likely zero issues and why I suggested it. It is by far the easiest solution for OPs most likely problem. I haven't had any issues with adapters or wires becoming unconnected, but I'm not moving my systems around so there is that. You might need some floppy power adapters or make those yoruself, if using modern PSUs which may lack floppy power connectors all together. I'm personally using recapped vintage PSUs, which usually have at least two, so I haven't had any problems with those either.

Maybe i will go down this route, as long as it works better than my SD to IDE adapter i am satisfied.
Floppy power is no problem.

Perhaps i will try both ways or start with the Startech adapter and see.
I have to get a SSD anyway i guess, a 120gb drive should cover my needs.

Thx

Computers in late 90s, early 00s had something like 10-40GB drives so around 120gb is certainly more than enough and you won’t run out of space easily, unless you for some reason start storing huge amounts of CD images and likes on the drive.

Besides, win98se supports up to 128GB, so that is the maximum you can use out of the box. You can patch it to support larger drives, but I haven’t personally bothered because there really is no need.

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2024-08-31, 20:39:

pskjonte wrote on 2024-08-31, 20:05:

Maybe i will go down this route, as long as it works better than my SD to IDE adapter i am satisfied. Floppy power is no problem […]
Show full quote

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2024-08-31, 19:05:

That is exactly what OP is running, so there is most likely zero issues and why I suggested it. It is by far the easiest solution for OPs most likely problem. I haven't had any issues with adapters or wires becoming unconnected, but I'm not moving my systems around so there is that. You might need some floppy power adapters or make those yoruself, if using modern PSUs which may lack floppy power connectors all together. I'm personally using recapped vintage PSUs, which usually have at least two, so I haven't had any problems with those either.

Maybe i will go down this route, as long as it works better than my SD to IDE adapter i am satisfied.
Floppy power is no problem.

Perhaps i will try both ways or start with the Startech adapter and see.
I have to get a SSD anyway i guess, a 120gb drive should cover my needs.

Thx

Computers in late 90s, early 00s had something like 10-40GB drives so around 120gb is certainly more than enough and you won’t run out of space easily, unless you for some reason start storing huge amounts of CD images and likes on the drive.

Besides, win98se supports up to 128GB, so that is the maximum you can use out of the box. You can patch it to support larger drives, but I haven’t personally bothered because there really is no need.

How about TRIM support and garbage on a SSD Drive? I red that it can cause some issues with W98.

This is my speed with a "SD to IDE, FC1307 Adapter" and a "Kingston microSD 128GB Canvas Go! Plus"
Not quite up to snuff....

Update:

I bought an IDE Adapter (Startech) on Amazon.se, $19,98
And a brand new Kingston 120GB SSD A400 on "tradera.se" (ebay, in Sweden) $26,45

Arrives on thursday 😀

Thank you for the help

pskjonte wrote on 2024-09-01, 09:19:

How about TRIM support and garbage on a SSD Drive? I red that it can cause some issues with W98.

What kind of issues? Most if not all modern SSDs have trim and garbage collection on the controller already.

And even if you use some old SSD drive, it most likely isn’t a big issue because these systems usually get relatively low hours so it takes ages for SSDs in them to wear down. And when the drive finally gives up, just buy a new one for 15-20€.

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2024-09-01, 13:00:

pskjonte wrote on 2024-09-01, 09:19:

How about TRIM support and garbage on a SSD Drive? I red that it can cause some issues with W98.

What kind of issues? Most if not all modern SSDs have trim and garbage collection on the controller already.

And even if you use some old SSD drive, it most likely isn’t a big issue because these systems usually get relatively low hours so it takes ages for SSDs in them to wear down. And when the drive finally gives up, just buy a new one for 15-20€.

Alright, thanks!

Do i have to "align" the drive as well?
Just read about it here on Vogons, so i guess ill have to do that first...

pskjonte wrote on 2024-09-01, 18:13:

Alright, thanks! […]
Show full quote

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2024-09-01, 13:00:

pskjonte wrote on 2024-09-01, 09:19:

How about TRIM support and garbage on a SSD Drive? I red that it can cause some issues with W98.

What kind of issues? Most if not all modern SSDs have trim and garbage collection on the controller already.

And even if you use some old SSD drive, it most likely isn’t a big issue because these systems usually get relatively low hours so it takes ages for SSDs in them to wear down. And when the drive finally gives up, just buy a new one for 15-20€.

Alright, thanks!

Do i have to "align" the drive as well?
Just read about it here on Vogons, so i guess ill have to do that first...

There is zero benefit from partition alignment on these old systems, because SSD performance is so seriously bottlenecked by the IDE. So even if SSD read/write performance is 25% lower, you won’t even notice it. Just use it like you would a regular vintage HDD on such system and enjoy.