Go with Adaptec.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325943769921?_nkw=Ad … %3ABFBMgovbuLVk

dominusprog wrote on 2024-09-01, 03:06:

Go with Adaptec.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325943769921?_nkw=Ad … %3ABFBMgovbuLVk

They are both adaptec 😀

Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-09-01, 03:08:

dominusprog wrote on 2024-09-01, 03:06:

Go with Adaptec.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325943769921?_nkw=Ad … %3ABFBMgovbuLVk

They are both adaptec 😀

You're right 😄. If you want to use the second model on a 32bit PCI, there's no point to buy that.

Please put the 2940U2W and the 19160 on your list.

Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-09-01, 02:52:

I was looking to buy a scsi card to try some scsi devices. I am undecided between those two scsi cards. The aha-2940uw has one 6 […]
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I was looking to buy a scsi card to try some scsi devices.
I am undecided between those two scsi cards.
The aha-2940uw has one 68 pin connector and one 50 pin connector and it's pci.
The 29160 has two 68 pin connectors (one ultra wide the other LVD) plus the 50 pin connector, it's 64 bit but compatible with 32 bit pci slots.

What would be the point of going for the first one? The older one may be more compatible with older motherboards?

Depends on what devices you will be using and if you will be using them at the same time as to what card would be best.

dominusprog wrote on 2024-09-01, 03:14:

You're right 😄. If you want to use the second model on a 32bit PCI, there's no point to buy that.

There is the 29160N which is 32 bit only but it's more expensive on used market, so...

Disruptor wrote on 2024-09-01, 05:24:

Please put the 2940U2W and the 19160 on your list.

Uhm interesting, so the first one is ultra scsi 2? That ould make it a better model compared to 2940uw, while the second is the cheaper model of the 29160 I suppose, 2 internal connectors and 32 bit.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-01, 09:19:

Depends on what devices you will be using and if you will be using them at the same time as to what card would be best.

I will use the card wtih U320 scsi hard drive (one at the time) and with cd-reader\writer (again 1-2 at the same time).

Considering that are all used stuff, I'd say to go with the cheapest which provides most features?

Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-09-01, 10:02:

There is the 29160N which is 32 bit only but it's more expensive on used market, so... […]
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dominusprog wrote on 2024-09-01, 03:14:

You're right 😄. If you want to use the second model on a 32bit PCI, there's no point to buy that.

There is the 29160N which is 32 bit only but it's more expensive on used market, so...

Disruptor wrote on 2024-09-01, 05:24:

Please put the 2940U2W and the 19160 on your list.

Uhm interesting, so the first one is ultra scsi 2? That ould make it a better model compared to 2940uw, while the second is the cheaper model of the 29160 I suppose, 2 internal connectors and 32 bit.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-01, 09:19:

Depends on what devices you will be using and if you will be using them at the same time as to what card would be best.

I will use the card wtih U320 scsi hard drive (one at the time) and with cd-reader\writer (again 1-2 at the same time).

Considering that are all used stuff, I'd say to go with the cheapest which provides most features?

The 29160N isnt just a 32bit PCI version of the 29160, there are other differences that might make a difference as to why you would buy that over another.
But you are right in that it has a 32bit PCI connector.

The 2940U2W is SCSI Ultra2 Wide not Ultra SCSI 2. It makes it different to the 2940UW, better is subjective.
Again the 19160 isnt just a card with different connectors, those connectors it does have are wired differently... Its not just a cheaper version, its different version with a similar name.

In your particular use case of an U320 HDD and a CDRW drive then I would say the better option of the cards you have mentioned would be the 29160 as long as you put the hard drive on the LVD connector and the CDRW on the other 68pin or 50 pin connector.
That is not to say there are not better options out there, it is just the best option given the hardware you have mentioned.

The 2940U2W would also give you the ability to run that hardware setup but the HDD will run at the slower U2W speed.

The 29160 is a good card for you because the way it links its connectors into the SCSI bus.
The Internal and external LVD connectors are on the same channel as the SE connectors but they are isolated from each other so you can have drives of different speeds (SCSI standards, protocols) on the same bus and not slow the faster ones down because you separate them over the different connectors.

In fact the 19160, 29160N and the 2940U2W contain 2 electrical busses:
- single ended ultra wide (UW SE) like the 2940UW
- low voltage differential (LVD) like the 29160
But they are toggled together with the 3860Q bridge chip, so it looks like one controller to the system but you have the benefits from either LVD and SE.
When you connect a SE device to the 29160LP, your bus will change from LVD to SE due to compatiblity reasons.

So you need to consider:
Do you have SE devices or do you want to use SE devices?
No -->
Go with the 19160 or any 29160 (including LP and N) or 19160, no need to care about legacy
Yes -->
Do you have LVD devices?
No -->
Go with the 2940UW
Yes -->
Do you have SE wide (16 bit, 68 pin) devices?
No -->
Go with the 19160 or 29160 (non-LP !!!), it's LVD bus is faster than the one of the 2940U2W, and it supports 8 bit (50 pin) devices like CDROM
Yes -->
Go with the 2940U2W (it is most flexible) or 29160 (non-LP !!!)

The 2940 is good for 40 MB/s (maximum of a SE bus). Its external connector is wide SE.
The 2940U2W is good for 80 MB/s on its LVD side, and for 40 MB/s on its SE side because it is wide there. You can mix devices without forcing LVD side to SE speed. Its external connector is LVD.
The 19160 and 29160N are good for 160 MB/s on its LVD side, and for 20 MB/s on its SE side because it is narrow there. You can mix devices without forcing LVD side to SE speed . Itsexternal connector is narrow SE.
The 29160 (non-LP !!!) is good for 160 MB/s on its LVD side, and for 40 MB/s on its SE side because it is wide there. You can mix devices without forcing LVD side to SE speed. Its external connector is LVD.
The 29160LP is good for 160 MB/s and does not have a SE side. When you connect a SE device to the bus it will run but force the whole bus to SE speed (40 MB/s). Its external connector is LVD.

You also have to consider which system do you use and which kind of devices.
Hard drives < 147 GB would not hit the 80 MB/s barrier of the 2940U2W.
For a systems < Pentium-2 you also would not need a faster controller than the 2940U2W.

As long as you only have LVD devices on the LVD connectors then you can mix LVD and SE on the same SCSI bus in those cards and keep their speeds because the two are electrically isolated from each other.

So you might want to revise your flow chart.

Things seems to be more complicated than expected 🧐
Obviously the cd drives are 50 pins so no doubt where to connect them, right?
While the hard drives are old 10k or 15k drives of 147gb, which they should go to lvd connector, correct?

Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-09-01, 13:56:

Things seems to be more complicated than expected 🧐
Obviously the cd drives are 50 pins so no doubt where to connect them, right?
While the hard drives are old 10k or 15k drives of 147gb, which they should go to lvd connector, correct?

It depends on who is explaining it all to you.
Its actually really simple with these cards.

Like I said the 29160 will fit in with what you want to do.
You need an LVD cable (68pin) for your hard drive. As long as only LVD devices are plugged into that cable then it will run just fine.
All the other SE devices like your CDRW drive should be on another cable, that could be 50pin or 68pin and that other cable should be plugged into the 68pin connector that is not marked LVD, or into the 50pin connector in your case.

The external connector on that card is electrically part of the LVD connector that is internally mounted, so if you wanted to have an external SCSI device such as an old SCSI2 CDROM then you would be dragging down the who bus to that SCSI2 level.

Thats why I asked what hardware you will be using...
I have a 29160LP.
I have a CDROM jukebox CD changer plugged into it together with a DAT autoloader. but thats all that will ever be plugged into it as I never intend on using its internal connector for a SCSI hard drive.
I use it because its low profile. Nothing more.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-01, 13:44:

As long as you only have LVD devices on the LVD connectors then you can mix LVD and SE on the same SCSI bus in those cards and keep their speeds because the two are electrically isolated from each other.

So you might want to revise your flow chart.

I've edited it to distinguish between 29160 and 29160LP.
I now have added the 29160N too which is similar to the 19160.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-01, 14:20:

The external connector on that card is electrically part of the LVD connector that is internally mounted, so if you wanted to have an external SCSI device such as an old SCSI2 CDROM then you would be dragging down the who bus to that SCSI2 level.

Not true on the 19160 because its external connector is 50 pin HD SE.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-01, 14:20:

Thats why I asked what hardware you will be using... I have a 29160LP. I have a CDROM jukebox CD changer plugged into it togethe […]
Show full quote

Thats why I asked what hardware you will be using...
I have a 29160LP.
I have a CDROM jukebox CD changer plugged into it together with a DAT autoloader. but thats all that will ever be plugged into it as I never intend on using its internal connector for a SCSI hard drive.
I use it because its low profile. Nothing more.

So you use your 29160LP crippled down to 40 MB/s on a SE bus.

Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-09-01, 13:56:

Things seems to be more complicated than expected 🧐
Obviously the cd drives are 50 pins so no doubt where to connect them, right?
While the hard drives are old 10k or 15k drives of 147gb, which they should go to lvd connector, correct?

Yes, all LVD capable devices should be connected to the LVD connectors then to ensure full performance.
Most CD drives are 50 pin but all are SE. Try to connect them on a 50 pin connector.
Fun fact: UltraPlex 40max drives are wide internally, but there exist UltraPlex Wide 40max and rebranded ones too with wide SE interface.

SCSI becomes a bit tricky when you look at termination.
For the internal LVD I recommend to use a twisted pair cable with LVD terminator. There are some short LVD cables with LVD terminator that do not look like twisted pair, but they are LVD in fact. Just look at the terminator first. It is because LVD devices do have a builtin terminator.
For the internal SE please activate the termination on the last device on the cable or put an (active !) terminator on the end of the cable.
The other end of the cable should be in the controller (but if termination on a controller does not work the controller does not be on an end of course).

At least the Adaptec LVD capable controllers with not too old BIOS should be reporting termination errors during bootup.

I would go with a 19160 or 29160N if you plan on any LVD drives and still want 50 pin SE, otherwise a 2940U2W. Those would be my choices and what I use mostly.

Disruptor wrote on 2024-09-01, 15:38:

Not true on the 19160 because its external connector is 50 pin HD SE. […]
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ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-01, 14:20:

The external connector on that card is electrically part of the LVD connector that is internally mounted, so if you wanted to have an external SCSI device such as an old SCSI2 CDROM then you would be dragging down the who bus to that SCSI2 level.

Not true on the 19160 because its external connector is 50 pin HD SE.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-01, 14:20:

Thats why I asked what hardware you will be using... I have a 29160LP. I have a CDROM jukebox CD changer plugged into it togethe […]
Show full quote

Thats why I asked what hardware you will be using...
I have a 29160LP.
I have a CDROM jukebox CD changer plugged into it together with a DAT autoloader. but thats all that will ever be plugged into it as I never intend on using its internal connector for a SCSI hard drive.
I use it because its low profile. Nothing more.

So you use your 29160LP crippled down to 40 MB/s on a SE bus.

Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-09-01, 13:56:

Things seems to be more complicated than expected 🧐
Obviously the cd drives are 50 pins so no doubt where to connect them, right?
While the hard drives are old 10k or 15k drives of 147gb, which they should go to lvd connector, correct?

Yes, all LVD capable devices should be connected to the LVD connectors then to ensure full performance.
Most CD drives are 50 pin but all are SE. Try to connect them on a 50 pin connector.
Fun fact: UltraPlex 40max drives are wide internally, but there exist UltraPlex Wide 40max and rebranded ones too with wide SE interface.

SCSI becomes a bit tricky when you look at termination.
For the internal LVD I recommend to use a twisted pair cable with LVD terminator. There are some short LVD cables with LVD terminator that do not look like twisted pair, but they are LVD in fact. Just look at the terminator first. It is because LVD devices do have a builtin terminator.
For the internal SE please activate the termination on the last device on the cable or put an (active !) terminator on the end of the cable.
The other end of the cable should be in the controller (but if termination on a controller does not work the controller does not be on an end of course).

At least the Adaptec LVD capable controllers with not too old BIOS should be reporting termination errors during bootup.

I didnt say the 19160 had an LVD connector the 29160 does.
That mistake happened in your head not mine. It was you who introduced the 19160 not me or the OP.
If you look back it was me who said the connectors are wired differently. I know exactly what the difference between the cards are.

Yes my 29160LP is running a much slower SCSI speed than it is capable of.

SCSI termination isnt complicated either.
Get an LVD cable with a terminator crimped onto it at manufacture. It will work.
The same goes for SE.
You can use the onboard terminator if you want too... but thats it.

Thank you all for the assistance.
Will I be able to use this scsi drive? I have the adapter if it uses the sca80.

I'm looking for some fancy scsi drives (15k rpm) but the cheap ones are just SAS

Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-09-01, 22:02:

Thank you all for the assistance. Will I be able to use this scsi drive? I have the adapter if it uses the sca80. […]
Show full quote

Thank you all for the assistance.
Will I be able to use this scsi drive? I have the adapter if it uses the sca80.

The attachment s-l1600.webp is no longer available

I'm looking for some fancy scsi drives (15k rpm) but the cheap ones are just SAS

Please can you show a picture of your SCA adapter?
Does it has a fan?
Your SCA adapter should be LVD capable. I recommend to read this thread: Cheap SCA adapters from China
Basically you can use your ST373454LC 15k 73 GB disk with a SCA adapter. Its speed is above 80 MB/s, so a U160 or U320 SCSI controller would be fine.

Remember, drives with 15k RPM require active cooling.
For drives with 10k RPM I highly recommend active cooling too.
Some drives with 7200 RPM should have active cooling too.
But some computer cases have an intelligent cooling architecture that may replace a separate active cooling for disk drives.

Disruptor wrote on 2024-09-02, 00:06:

Please can you show a picture of your SCA adapter? Does it has a fan? Your SCA adapter should be LVD capable. I recommend to rea […]
Show full quote

Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-09-01, 22:02:

Thank you all for the assistance. Will I be able to use this scsi drive? I have the adapter if it uses the sca80. […]
Show full quote

Thank you all for the assistance.
Will I be able to use this scsi drive? I have the adapter if it uses the sca80.

The attachment s-l1600.webp is no longer available

I'm looking for some fancy scsi drives (15k rpm) but the cheap ones are just SAS

Please can you show a picture of your SCA adapter?
Does it has a fan?
Your SCA adapter should be LVD capable. I recommend to read this thread: Cheap SCA adapters from China
Basically you can use your ST373454LC 15k 73 GB disk with a SCA adapter. Its speed is above 80 MB/s, so a U160 or U320 SCSI controller would be fine.

It is because drives with 15k RPM require active cooling.
For drives with 10k RPM I highly recommend active cooling too.
Some drives with 7200 RPM should have active cooling too.
But some computer cases have an intelligent cooling architecture that may replace a separate active cooling for disk drives.

Uhm my sca adapter is quite old, since when needs a fan? I didn't know. I've used it with my older drives and it worked fine.

I'm not sure whether it connects the DIFFSENSe signal.
You may run your disk with it but your controller may operate the bus in single ended mode then.

When you don't take precautions your 15000 RPM drive will get too hot.