I'm blown away by how much this has evolved in such a short period of time. Makes my pet projects look quaint!
any idea on when you will be releasing the schematics and PCB files? I'm itching to play with one 😀

snipe3687 wrote on 2024-09-25, 18:29:

I'm blown away by how much this has evolved in such a short period of time. Makes my pet projects look quaint!
any idea on when you will be releasing the schematics and PCB files? I'm itching to play with one 😀

I want to make sure everything works perfectly before putting it up on github. DM me if you want the current stuff, though I make absolutely 0% guarantees anything will work! 😉

What an amazing project, again!

I tried to get my hands on the previous Llama, but was way too late. I'm really looking forward to this one's final evolution!

cursedverses wrote on 2024-09-29, 13:28:

What an amazing project, again!

I tried to get my hands on the previous Llama, but was way too late. I'm really looking forward to this one's final evolution!

Hello, please check my previous posts if you are still looking to get the ITX-Llama.

Let me know if you have any questions on our Discord server! 😀

This is awesome. Big thumbs up and will be thrilled to own one of these.

Update: Getting close to prototype ordering time again!
Added an I2C IO expander (connected to the Vortex) that controls 8 diagnostic LEDs, as well as an analog switch/mux that will let you set FAN2's PWM source as either the built-in EMC2303 fan controller IC or the MXM card (provided it has its own PWM controller).
Also made a simple Mini-PCIe-to-MXM carrier board.

Spectacular. What a piece of art.
Eivind, just wondering, with regards to the fan on top (for the Vortex and CM4), I used the Raspberry Pi 5th heatsink+fan which costs less than $10 and works pretty well.
However, I had to cut and solder the connector for since the Raspberry Pi 5 uses a small 4pin JST SH (similar to the Qwiic one) with the following pinout:
Pin1 5V
Pin2 PWM
Pin3 GND
Pin4 Tach
No big deal if you do not see value in it as I can always cut and solder 4 wires 😀

ahmadexp wrote on 2024-10-01, 06:30:

Spectacular. What a piece of art. Eivind, just wondering, with regards to the fan on top (for the Vortex and CM4), I used the Ra […]
Show full quote

Spectacular. What a piece of art.
Eivind, just wondering, with regards to the fan on top (for the Vortex and CM4), I used the Raspberry Pi 5th heatsink+fan which costs less than $10 and works pretty well.
However, I had to cut and solder the connector for since the Raspberry Pi 5 uses a small 4pin JST SH (similar to the Qwiic one) with the following pinout:
Pin1 5V
Pin2 PWM
Pin3 GND
Pin4 Tach
No big deal if you do not see value in it as I can always cut and solder 4 wires 😀

Thanks! 😀

As far as I can tell, the Raspberry Pi company went with a completely non-standard pinout for that fan, which doesn't exactly make it super compelling to use on this board.
I'm curious though, did you mean you only used the fan, or the heatsink as well? Isn't that specifically shaped to fit the RPi5 board and chips?

Eivind wrote on 2024-09-30, 21:48:

Update: Getting close to prototype ordering time again! Added an I2C IO expander (connected to the Vortex) that controls 8 diagn […]
Show full quote

Update: Getting close to prototype ordering time again!
Added an I2C IO expander (connected to the Vortex) that controls 8 diagnostic LEDs, as well as an analog switch/mux that will let you set FAN2's PWM source as either the built-in EMC2303 fan controller IC or the MXM card (provided it has its own PWM controller).
Also made a simple Mini-PCIe-to-MXM carrier board.

This is such a good idea! It’s so much more flexible this way with the MXM slot. I have an old 980m laying around 😉

Eivind wrote on 2024-10-01, 06:58:

Thanks! :) […]
Show full quote

ahmadexp wrote on 2024-10-01, 06:30:

Spectacular. What a piece of art. Eivind, just wondering, with regards to the fan on top (for the Vortex and CM4), I used the Ra […]
Show full quote

Spectacular. What a piece of art.
Eivind, just wondering, with regards to the fan on top (for the Vortex and CM4), I used the Raspberry Pi 5th heatsink+fan which costs less than $10 and works pretty well.
However, I had to cut and solder the connector for since the Raspberry Pi 5 uses a small 4pin JST SH (similar to the Qwiic one) with the following pinout:
Pin1 5V
Pin2 PWM
Pin3 GND
Pin4 Tach
No big deal if you do not see value in it as I can always cut and solder 4 wires 😀

Thanks! 😀

As far as I can tell, the Raspberry Pi company went with a completely non-standard pinout for that fan, which doesn't exactly make it super compelling to use on this board.
I'm curious though, did you mean you only used the fan, or the heatsink as well? Isn't that specifically shaped to fit the RPi5 board and chips?

True. This is less compelling since it is proprietary.
With regards to the fan and heatsink, I used the complete set. Refer to the attached pictures.

If that connector is voltage compatible - and just not pin compatible, it wouldn't take long to poke the pins out of the header and rearrange them, no?

cursedverses wrote on 2024-10-02, 07:14:

If that connector is voltage compatible - and just not pin compatible, it wouldn't take long to poke the pins out of the header and rearrange them, no?

The Pi5 fan uses a JST-SH 1mm pitched plug - not the Molex 2.54mm pitched plug (mfn.47054-1000) that's standard for 4-pin PWM PC fans. So it's not as simple as rearranging the connectors in the plug.

While I do like the idea of supporting this heatsink/fan combo without replacing its plug, there's one major drawback as I see it - we already have a JST-SH connector on the board (the I2C connector). Putting another exact same connector on there which does something completely different and non-standard (and might do damage if you mix up the two), isn't super appealing to me. 😀

Eivind wrote on 2024-10-02, 08:55:

cursedverses wrote on 2024-10-02, 07:14:

If that connector is voltage compatible - and just not pin compatible, it wouldn't take long to poke the pins out of the header and rearrange them, no?

The Pi5 fan uses a JST-SH 1mm pitched plug - not the Molex 2.54mm pitched plug (mfn.47054-1000) that's standard for 4-pin PWM PC fans. So it's not as simple as rearranging the connectors in the plug.

While I do like the idea of supporting this heatsink/fan combo without replacing its plug, there's one major drawback as I see it - we already have a JST-SH connector on the board (the I2C connector). Putting another exact same connector on there which does something completely different and non-standard (and might do damage if you mix up the two), isn't super appealing to me. 😀

I see your point. Worst than all is that if you plug a Qwiic device in this connector, you might blow it up since you put 5v instead of ground and ground on one of the I2c lines.
Just to be clear, I did not mean to get rid of the old connector, just adding the JST-SH right beside it.

ahmadexp wrote on 2024-10-02, 22:29:

I see your point. Worst than all is that if you plug a Qwiic device in this connector, you might blow it up since you put 5v instead of ground and ground on one of the I2c lines.

Exactly, not worth taking the risk imho. 😀

Update: Revision 3.3 prototype boards + MXM adapters ordered! By kind suggestion from @sdz, I added some ESD protection diodes to the HDMI connector, otherwise the board is the same as in the renders above. Will update here when I get what I'm hoping will be the final revision in hand. Fingers crossed that everything will work out, especially the USB PD subsystem and MXM connector! 🤞

👏👏👏

are you going to do a group buy for v3? would love a prebuilt board obviously will have to source the vortex and pi4 but the rest would be nice to buy outright

Xargon321 wrote on 2024-10-05, 01:30:

are you going to do a group buy for v3? would love a prebuilt board obviously will have to source the vortex and pi4 but the rest would be nice to buy outright

Most likely: yes.
In addition to the Vortex86EX SOM and CM4 (not mandatory, but enhances the system greatly), you'd still need to buy the graphics card. As of right now, we have these options:
1. A Mini-PCIe-to-MXM adapter + a Mini-PCIe card; that'll be the Vortex86VGA (slow, but ok for 2D DOS games, ~$50) or one of the SM750-based cards (no 3D, but better 2D performance, ~$150-200). I think there's also cards based on the AST1400 IC, haven't tried those myself but supposedly they also work fine.
2. @sdz's Voodoo4 MXM card. No idea yet what the final cost of these is gonna be, first step is getting everything working. I'll be testing the MXM-equipped TinyLlama and this card soon.
3. Since the MXM "platform" is very capable, we might be able to make some custom, older PCI-based graphics card recreations down the road. I know @Deksor played with this idea a couple of pages back in this thread. Theoretically very doable, in practice I don't know yet.

The MXM form factor is why I'm more interested in the ITX Llama. MXM makes it harder to buy cards, or for those cards to have say Win98 drivers. Also, a lot of MXM cards need special cooling that makes it non trivial to add to this project.

Am I seeing this wrong?

sardaukar wrote on 2024-10-05, 11:02:

The MXM form factor is why I'm more interested in the ITX Llama. MXM makes it harder to buy cards, or for those cards to have say Win98 drivers. Also, a lot of MXM cards need special cooling that makes it non trivial to add to this project.

Am I seeing this wrong?

Harder to buy cards - yes, definitely! Drivers, I wouldn't necessarily agree. Remember, we're not talking about modern MXM cards here. Cooling, slap a heatsink on the GPU with a thermal adhesive pad and make sure there's some airflow. These are not very high-wattage cards.

Taking a step back, it's most certainly easier to use an ITX-sized motherboard both in terms of case mounting and choice of graphics cards. The whole point of the TinyLlama series however, is the overall system size. Even the relatively small ITX form factor, combined with an old graphics card, ATX power supply, etc. is gigantic compared to this board. The internal volume of the enclosure needed here is in the ballpark of 0.5l (not counting the USB-C power brick).