Jo22 wrote on 2024-10-18, 04:50:

Hm. Why so conservative? :) Are we getting old or are afraid of trying new things? ;) I thought the retro hobby was because of f […]
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Hm. Why so conservative? 😀 Are we getting old or are afraid of trying new things? 😉
I thought the retro hobby was because of fascination about older tech, rather than just the usability and comfortability standpoint.

...
Really, it's not meant as criticism. I'm just wondering in general, because I noticed that retro hobby becomes more and more, um, uniform.

Think it's more a case of targeting the correct audience.
If someone is asking the question on if they should network their PC's then think it's a fair assumption they are somewhat unfamiliar with networking.
Compared to people who are familiar and will just attempt to set it up without asking first.
And given that most people are familiar with TCP/IP and that it works on everything from DOS to Win11 it is a nice "introductory to networking and protocols"

Just like many of us here started wanting to build PC to play certain games but end up splitting off into subgroups of hardware, Old OS's, etc and end up spending more time messing around then actually playing games.
I myself have physical NT 3.51, NT4, 2000 and 2003 servers!

But Definity nothing wrong with suggesting alternatives, I wouldn't have thought about mentioning IPX if you didn't mention AppleTalk first and now OP has a few options he may not have considered.

I do have to disagree with home cooked meals though.
I HATE cooking and neither me or my wife's food tastes as good as some takeaway. I'd even use "your AppleTalk" if we never had to cook a meal again 😉

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-21, 00:32:

And given that most people are familiar with TCP/IP and that it works on everything from DOS to Win11 it is a nice "introductory to networking and protocols"

And that's exactly why I had replied in first place. 😟
Because that assumption nolonger is true in my eyes (true for TCP/IP itself, but not the rest - read on).

It used to be true in 2004, still, when Windows XP was leading - but by the time Windows Vista came out in 2007, it had opened my eyes.

By time SMB2 was available, it was apparent that modern networking was going to cut the roots.

But it wasn't just about SMB, but also IPv4 vs IPv6, https:// and other technologies.

Mac OS X did similar from v10.3 onwards, which was out by late 2003.

The writing was on the wall, back then, so to say.

Nowadays, it requires a lot of work and patience to have SMB file sharing working all way down to DOS and Windows for Workgroups.
A lot of registry settings must be changed by hand.

Connecting old computers with a TCP/IP stack to Internet as such is no big deal, considering that things like FTP, Telnet and e-mail are 1960s era technologies.

But making them to actually talk to each other in a meaningful way is another matter.

That's why I mentioned AppleTalk with AFP and not Little Big Lan or LANTastic here.
It used to be the second most popular networking protocol next to SMB.

And it used to be very user-friendly, too.

No need to go through same obstackes like setting up a Novell Netware server.
AppleTalk (AFP) was very chatty and did most configuration on its own.

If there's a commercial NAS from the late 90s or mid-2000s that supports both SMB and AFP simultanously, it would have been very easy to access files from it from either PC.

Edit: Thanks for your reply. ^^
Edited.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-10-19, 05:59:

I mean, why do you want to cook a meal at home if there's fastfood available? It just costs time and money, so why stick out of […]
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Are we having this discussion again? Don't worry about it. Just connect them to your network.

I mean, why do you want to cook a meal at home if there's fastfood available?
It just costs time and money, so why stick out of the crowd and be different for once?
After all, most people eat fastfood. They can't be wrong, can they?

Is that for real?
Do most Americans really mostly eat fast foods?

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-21, 03:11:

Is that for real?
Do most Americans really mostly eat fast foods?

I don’t know, but good question. I'm from Europe, also. I wrote this as a snarky comparison to daily life.
That being said, I know of people in my neighborhood who don't cook anymore. So it came to mind.

Edit: I think though that Americans do make a distinction between fast foods and junk food, which I think we usually don't.

I believe we in Europa/my country rather think of freshly made meals at home vs microwave oven meals or a meal from McDonalds.
Or a raw filet from meat counter vs a ready-made meal out of freezer cabinet from supermarket.

Americans have shitty labor laws that allow business owners to co-opt time that rightly belongs to the individual people, and not the employer.

See for instance, average holiday/leave time in EU vs US. (It's STARK.)

I dont want to derail into politics. That is not my aim or goal here. Only to point out that this 'personal time deficit' results in corners being cut on a wholesale societal level. 'Nutritious proper meals at home' is a very regular casualty, as is 'time to tinker on things and having meaningful hobbies.'

Basically, culture takes a hard hit, in the name of quarterlies here.

I wish it weren't so, but that's how it is.

Fast food is common around the world.
It just takes a different form.
In Asia, a drive though amounts to stopping your motorbike by one of the many street vendors and buying something usually rice or noodle based often wrapped in a combination of paper, leaf, and plastic.

It's definitely not a uniquely American thing, and if you look at the concept more broadly, it is unlikely that it or even the drive through was ever an American invention.
I can easily imagine the same concept dating back to the horse. It just wasn't called that.

Market stall vendors, including food vedors, have acheological evidence dating into the bronze age.

There was an article about 4 years ago about an ancient Roman one getting dug up... let me see if I can find it...

Here we go.

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/27/950645473/what … researchers-say

myne wrote on 2024-10-21, 05:18:

Fast food is common around the world.
It just takes a different form.
In Asia, a drive though amounts to stopping your motorbike by one of the many street vendors and buying something usually rice or noodle based often wrapped in a combination of paper, leaf, and plastic.

To be fair, that's real food, still, though. Which can't be said to all types of fast foods around the globe?
A lot of ready-made meals consist of other materials to bulk them.
A lot of meat is being bulked with water, so it seems larger than it is.
Or it's pressed meat, rather than a real filet.

wierd_w wrote on 2024-10-21, 05:10:

Americans have shitty labor laws that allow business owners to co-opt time that rightly belongs to the individual people, and no […]
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Americans have shitty labor laws that allow business owners to co-opt time that rightly belongs to the individual people, and not the employer.

See for instance, average holiday/leave time in EU vs US. (It's STARK.)

I dont want to derail into politics. That is not my aim or goal here. Only to point out that this 'personal time deficit' results in corners being cut on a wholesale societal level. 'Nutritious proper meals at home' is a very regular casualty, as is 'time to tinker on things and having meaningful hobbies.'

Basically, culture takes a hard hit, in the name of quarterlies here.

I wish it weren't so, but that's how it is.

Um, well, each to her/his own? 🤷

I wouldn't call myself a great cook, either, but sometimes I feel the urge to experience a bit of real food.
That's when I spend 10 mins for making myself some pan cakes from individual incredients, rather than buying a pan cake in a bottle.

Or I do make a visit to a bakery, to get some real bread or fresh rolls.
Provided that I can find a real bakery, still. A lot of bakeries use frozen dough from central production these days.. 😢

Or on sundays or holidays, when family member make a visit, I may make some meatballs from individual incredients, as well.
Or I'll make some marmble cake same way. That not always turns out well, though! 🥲

@ wierd_w Thanks for the link! What I always find fasinating is how much can be learned from these times, still.
For example, the use of colour. We always thought that Greece and Rome or Egypt used to be all white, but evidences suggest they had colourful streets.

Edit: Typo fixed. Maybe it's also a cultural thing? 🤷‍♂️
My grandmother told me to value good food and to never throw it away.
She never had high demands when living at home with us, except for real food.

Edit: This brings back some good memories, btw.
I remember when she was making pan cakes when I was little.
There was this one evening when we watched a VHS of Aristocats, while she was making pan cakes.
She was trying to make me a favor and had used olive oil to make it.
I, um, let's say I didn't really know to value it at the time! 😂

Wow, this conversation got a lot deeper than I expected.

I plugged in an Ethernet cable to my network and saw my RetroNAS shares immediately, since it supports old versions of Samba. I couldn't open any of the shares at first, but I figured out that I needed to switch the Windows Login method and change the username to match the RetroNAS username. Everything is working as expected now.

Also, the world did not end, my PC did not burst into flames, and invaders did not invade and ransom my machine, where the closest thing to valuable data is 30-year-old MDK saves.

I ordered a matching 3COM adapter for my other older PC and will do the same there. Fingers crossed!

Renaissance 2K wrote on 2024-10-21, 17:00:

Wow, this conversation got a lot deeper than I expected. […]
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Wow, this conversation got a lot deeper than I expected.

I plugged in an Ethernet cable to my network and saw my RetroNAS shares immediately, since it supports old versions of Samba. I couldn't open any of the shares at first, but I figured out that I needed to switch the Windows Login method and change the username to match the RetroNAS username. Everything is working as expected now.

Also, the world did not end, my PC did not burst into flames, and invaders did not invade and ransom my machine, where the closest thing to valuable data is 30-year-old MDK saves.

I ordered a matching 3COM adapter for my other older PC and will do the same there. Fingers crossed!

It depends on what computer and what software you have.
XP pre SP1, MSBlast will find you while Win98 has vulnerabilities it being behind a home router shields it from many because not all ports are forwarded to it.
Sometimes having a very basic router that doesnt allow forwarding of ports can be a defence by itself.

There are ways to protect yourself, but most of them require to use of enterprise grade (very old enterprise grade now, so cheap) hardware.

Renaissance 2K wrote on 2024-10-21, 17:00:

Wow, this conversation got a lot deeper than I expected. […]
Show full quote

Wow, this conversation got a lot deeper than I expected.

I plugged in an Ethernet cable to my network and saw my RetroNAS shares immediately, since it supports old versions of Samba. I couldn't open any of the shares at first, but I figured out that I needed to switch the Windows Login method and change the username to match the RetroNAS username. Everything is working as expected now.

Also, the world did not end, my PC did not burst into flames, and invaders did not invade and ransom my machine, where the closest thing to valuable data is 30-year-old MDK saves.

I ordered a matching 3COM adapter for my other older PC and will do the same there. Fingers crossed!

Nice! Once you have networking setup, you'll never want to go without it again!

My advive is to walk around the house with sunglasses on, just in case the NSA come knocking at your door 😉