looks like a sign-wave but should be near square wave and should go from near VSS (ground) to near VCC (typically 3.3v) for Pentium.
See this: https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/computing/i … ck%20Design.pdf
specifically pages 3 thru 7 for description, waveshapes, rise/fall times and voltage...

tony359 wrote on 2024-10-30, 18:00:

It's like D6-D7-D8, very slowly, then it stops. With a different BIOS from a Dell board (AMI) I get D4-D5-D6-D7-D8-D9-D0-DA etc. (Assuming it's a D but could also be a zero).

Pretty sure that a D on a seven segment display is usually written in lower case - in order to distinguish it from a 0, so it's most likely a zero on your post card ..

The scope seems to be set to bandwidth limit of 20MHz, that's maybe why the amplitude of the clock is so low and that it's sinusoidal in the shape.

oh no! I forgot the bandwidth limit! Thanks! I'll check again.

Horun
Thanks - I'll compare with another board. But it's not the first time I see those weird offset signals. Sometimes I think the scope itself can affect a clock signal - though I am not checking a crystal (I think), this is the signal going into the CPU. But the document you shared is very clear so maybe that could be a problem.

Henrik
I've had both d6-d7-d8 and 06-07-08 then. It depends on the BIOS I am using.

Hi Tony, I follow both your YouTube channels, and I saw your Batman Revenge, in one of the latest videos.

I open a short parenthesis, I have between my motherboards, an Intel S.4, besides it is working, but you have to fix the Dallas chip, it's something I'll do later, at the moment I'm working on an M550 i430TX S.7 with K6-233, and if I can at the same time, I'll try one of the two Olidata OLI-BX, practically ASUS P2B.

As for your MB, I don't see the images of the post card, but I can tell you that the zero is written with the LED bars without the horizontal one in the middle, to be clear a square O, while the d, is written in lowercase, here if you see a capital D, it's a zero.

For other suggestions, I'll see about your video, and then I'll tell you if I notice something you can try, but I think that if it doesn't start, or it gets stuck on some codes, it could also be a RAM problem, even if they all look the same, some PCs I have, only like those with GM72VXXXX chips (and a few others).

If my MB can be useful, it should be a Mercury, and I have two different types of RAM, in total 48 MB, so 16+32, or if you prefer 8+8 and 16+16 MB, unfortunately one type of RAM has the chips completely covered, and it is not possible to read what they are, the other instead is TI -60 TMS418169DZ, they should be FPM, those covered are there is written behind.

Hi PC@LIVE

Understood about the codes. So I'm getting d6-d7-d8-d9 with a BIOS and O6-O7-O8-O9 with another BIOS. With or without RAM it doesn't matter.

I'll look at the clock, though I'd assume that if the clock was not working, I wouldn't have anything. If I have codes that means that code is being executed. Though the previous owner had to play with the clock IC which is now joined in a weird way with a bodge wire so who knows.

I don't have much RAM on this format. I tried all I've got. I'm quite confident that I don't have EDO RAM.

Yes, I have fixed the Dallas chip. Without, I have less codes - but still some. I think I'll make a necroware PCB just to be safe, maybe the DALLAS IC is bad?

Thanks so far!

I forgot, but I think you already know, the RAMs go in pairs, possibly identical, but if you can try them on another PC, so that you already know that they work, apart from that, seeing your video, in fact I would better check the repair in the quartz area, I didn't understand why he moved it to the back, but maybe putting it back, wouldn't be bad at all.
I have to try my Mercury, to do some tests, I don't know if the BIOS is compatible with your BATMAN, in my MB there is the integrated video, maybe apart from this the rest could be the same, but I don't know anything about it, you would have to ask someone who understands it, for example Jan is the first one that comes to mind.

Please share your BIOS images, then it would be possible to find the code that outputs the POST codes and tell what exactly is it doing at that moment.

In this discussion (right here), there is a BATMAN card, maybe it's the same, and there's a video with the card that starts, and shows the codes on the post card, or you could ask where you got the BIOS from, and download it, I think it's written which version it uses, eventually I could try to recover the BIOS of my MB, assuming that then you can use it on the BATMAN:

Re: Batman SOCKET4 with issues...

I watched that video yesterday but I thought the board was faulty? Is that what I should expect from a working board? d4-d3 all the time? So maybe mine is not too broken! 😀

Yes, I have installed the RAM in pairs, on different slots.

The BIOS I have are all here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AukePwK7XyEPhZcwq4wO7rrbz0xS7A?e=q3Fchu

Thanks so far!

Edit: ah no, the video I watched with the infinite loop was the one with bad BIOS. Interesting, I shall try the BIOS recovery from the floppy. That would also tell me if the system is somehow working.
I'm not sure how it works though, I'll check some info later.

Coincidentally I saw the video I made on my cell phone, of my PCCHIPS M550, which had a problem with the AMI BIOS, the POST CARD codes were d4 d3, so if you see these codes, it should be necessary to restore the BIOS, use a VGA ISA is a couple of memories, connect a floppy drive 💾, put the file you want to write in an empty disk, in memory I think you have to rename it to AMIBOOT.ROM, with the floppy inserted start the PC, and if it starts reading, you will see that it will display other codes, when it is finished you will hear four beeps, that should be all.

It must be turned off and then started, if you succeed you will also have the screen with a PCI VGA.

If instead it does not read the floppy, you have to force the Recovery BIOS, you can do it by shorting two PINs of the BIOS chip, usually they are like the ones in the picture, but if you have a PLCC32 chip they could be others, or better positioned differently (?).

I'll investigate thanks. I do have a programmer though, I am surprised that a proper image is not available.

Edit: the manual is pretty useless. What is "the bootable upgrade diskette"? I'd imagine something supplied by Intel 😀

Update.

I tried the board in recovery mode with a floppy connected and it started seeking - so there was hope.

I made a bootable floppy in windows xp then copied the content of the BIOS file I found on TRW - it's exe but WinRAR can open it.

The board starts seeking from the floppy and never stops seeking. There is a BEEP.COM in the autoexec.bat and it's not beeping so that is not even starting.

On vcfed someone had the same issue but resolved by renaming the BIOS files to BACKUP.xyz. I did that too but that didn't work.

I have the feeling that I only have a BIOS issue here. I feel I am close to see this board posting!

Any ideas?

tony359 wrote on 2024-10-31, 16:32:

I'll investigate thanks. I do have a programmer though, I am surprised that a proper image is not available. […]
Show full quote

I'll investigate thanks. I do have a programmer though, I am surprised that a proper image is not available.

Edit: the manual is pretty useless. What is "the bootable upgrade diskette"? I'd imagine something supplied by Intel 😀

Update.

I tried the board in recovery mode with a floppy connected and it started seeking - so there was hope.

I made a bootable floppy in windows xp then copied the content of the BIOS file I found on TRW - it's exe but WinRAR can open it.

The board starts seeking from the floppy and never stops seeking. There is a BEEP.COM in the autoexec.bat and it's not beeping so that is not even starting.

On vcfed someone had the same issue but resolved by renaming the BIOS files to BACKUP.xyz. I did that too but that didn't work.

I have the feeling that I only have a BIOS issue here. I feel I am close to see this board posting!

Any ideas?

I also think it can work, honestly I don't know if the Recovery BIOS works like in my M550, but for me it was very simple.

I took an empty floppy, without a boot file, simply formatted, and I copied the BIOS file, I renamed it AMIBOOT.ROM, with the floppy in the player, I started the PC, and it started reading the floppy, if it doesn't read it you can press the HOME button (which forces the reading), on the video you should see messages, unfortunately I didn't see them for an incorrect connection of the monitor, as soon as it's finished it alerts you with four beeps, for safety wait a while, remove the floppy and restart the PC, everything should be ok

thanks but unfortunately that's not the correct method apparently. At least that's what they say here: https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/int … s-issues.48696/

tony359 wrote on 2024-10-31, 10:32:

I watched that video yesterday but I thought the board was faulty? Is that what I should expect from a working board? d4-d3 all the time? So maybe mine is not too broken! 😀

Yes, I have installed the RAM in pairs, on different slots.

The BIOS I have are all here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AukePwK7XyEPhZcwq4wO7rrbz0xS7A?e=q3Fchu

I did some tests on the emulator with your BIOS images.

The original ROM that comes with the emulator outputs POST codes D0, D1, D2, D3, D4, D5, D6, D7, D8, D9, DB, DD, DF, E0, E1, E2, E3, E4, E6, E7, E9, EA, EB, EC, ED, 23, 24, 0D, 0E, 0F, 10, 15, F0, F1, F2, 28, 29, 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 2E, 36, 37, F3, 80, 83, F5, 39, 3B, 43, 4F, 52, FF, 61, FF, 62, FF, 65, 66, 67, F4, 8C, FF, 8E, 8F, 91, 92, 96, 9A, 9D, A0, FF, A1, FF, A2, AB, AC, AD, AE, AF, B0, A3.

As for the POST codes you get, D6 does nothing, D7 and D8 flush the buffers and run the self test of the keyboard controller.

"DELL batman ok.BIN" outputs POST codes 02, 04, 05, 08, 13, 15, 16, 20, 23, 40, 65, 67, 80, 81, 88, A0, 00 and freezes with no video output.
"batman good 2.BIN" (which is the same as "batman bios GOOD does not work.BIN") produces no POST codes.
"intel batman broken.BIN" - 02, 08, 13, 15, 18, 20, 23, 40, 65, 67, 80, 82, 88, A0, 00 and freezes.
"N28F001BX-T@PLCC32_foundOnBoard.BIN" gives the best result so far - 02, 04, 06, 09, 08, 0A, 0C, 0E, 10, 11, 12, 18, 20, 14, 16, 1A, 1C, 22, 24, 28, 2A, 2C, 2E, 32, 34, 3C, 3D, 3A, 38, 40, 42, 44, 46, 47, 49, 76, 4A, 78, 48, 4C, 4E, 50, 24, 52, D2, 54, 56, 58, 5A, 9A, 5C, 60, 62, 64, 66, 68, 6A, 6C, 6E, 70, 72, 74, 76, 7C, 7E, 96, 1C, 0A, 94, 80, 82, 84, 86, 88, 8A, 8C, 90, 91, 92, 98, 9C, 9E, A0, A2, A4, A8, AA, AC, AE, B0. I see video output and it POSTs up to the HDD init where it stops (because I haven't configured my disk yet) and asks to press F1. It shows the Advanced Logic Research logo at the top of the screen.

If you want to reconstruct the original BIOS image from the update files, you would need to splice the *.bi1 file - cut first 128 bytes of header and put the rest into the start of your ROM (up to 0x4000) and splice the *.bio file - also cut the header and put the rest into the second half of ROM (from 0x10000 to 0x1ffff). I have attached the file I used.

"N28F001BX-T@PLCC32_foundOnBoard.BIN" gives the best result so far - 02, 04, 06, 09, 08, 0A, 0C, 0E, 10, 11, 12, 18, 20, 14, 16, 1A, 1C, 22, 24, 28, 2A, 2C, 2E, 32, 34, 3C, 3D, 3A, 38, 40, 42, 44, 46, 47, 49, 76, 4A, 78, 48, 4C, 4E, 50, 24, 52, D2, 54, 56, 58, 5A, 9A, 5C, 60, 62, 64, 66, 68, 6A, 6C, 6E, 70, 72, 74, 76, 7C, 7E, 96, 1C, 0A, 94, 80, 82, 84, 86, 88, 8A, 8C, 90, 91, 92, 98, 9C, 9E, A0, A2, A4, A8, AA, AC, AE, B0. I see video output and it POSTs up to the HDD init where it stops (because I haven't configured my disk yet) and asks to press F1. It shows the Advanced Logic Research logo at the top of the screen.

Thank you so much for your help! How did you do that? I'd be interested in learning how to do that myself!

This BIOS is the one I found on the board but honestly I think it belongs to a different board. It's not AMI and it says NCR in it??

Thanks for the instructions on how to reconstruct the BIOS! Is the one you linked a full BIOS image I can flash on my BIOS ROM? If it works I need to hug you! 😀

tony359 wrote on 2024-11-01, 09:07:

How did you do that? I'd be interested in learning how to do that myself!

I built 86Box from source with ENABLE_POSTCARD_LOG set to 1.

tony359 wrote on 2024-11-01, 09:07:

This BIOS is the one I found on the board but honestly I think it belongs to a different board. It's not AMI and it says NCR in it??

N28F001BX-T@PLCC32_foundOnBoard.BIN is a PhoenixBIOS 4.03.4, probably from this board: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/alr-ev … lution-v-st-pci

tony359 wrote on 2024-11-01, 09:07:

Thanks for the instructions on how to reconstruct the BIOS! Is the one you linked a full BIOS image I can flash on my BIOS ROM? If it works I need to hug you! 😀

The one I linked is bundled with 86Box's romset as two separate (bi1 and bio) files in roms/machine/revenge directory, I have just repacked it in a single flashable image.
I think it is worth trying. If it doesn't work then you can try building one yourself using a hex editor from your update files.

Thanks!

Just tried it - in normal mode I don't get anything "-- --". In Recovery mode I have what other BIOS do in Normal mode "d6 - d7 - d8 - d9"

If it doesn't work then you can try building one yourself using a hex editor from your update files.

What would be the difference with the file you sent me? I don't want to sound harsh, it's a genuine question 😀

Thanks for now!