Rekrul wrote on 2024-11-11, 12:36:

(...) knowing how the universe doesn't like to see things work out for people (...)

Feckin' amen to that! 😉

As for your main question - this depends on your exact budget. A low profile GT 730 or 1030 should be easy to come by. These can handle most AAA games from a decade ago in 1080p on low settings. An even better option would be a low profile 750/750ti or 1050/1050ti, but low profile variants of these are a bit harder to find I suppose.

I haven't done any comparative research on this, but i'm satisfied with low profile RX 550 by AMD on my "lab computer". Games are not the target for me on that machine, i just needed something recent enough so it could drive 2x4K screens.
But for free or almost free price, it may fit for you, too.

In general, having a requirement for low profile card in itself causes you to pay extra for that property... If you can and are really struggling, maybe just buy normal card and never close the case of existing computer? 😜

revolstar wrote on 2024-11-11, 14:20:

Feckin' amen to that! 😉

Every time I buy a "universal" part for something, it never fits. 😀

revolstar wrote on 2024-11-11, 14:20:

As for your main question - this depends on your exact budget. A low profile GT 730 or 1030 should be easy to come by. These can handle most AAA games from a decade ago in 1080p on low settings. An even better option would be a low profile 750/750ti or 1050/1050ti, but low profile variants of these are a bit harder to find I suppose.

Thanks for the recommendations.

My budge is basically as little possible. I see some 730 and 1030 cards on eBay fairly cheap, like under $50. Of course, being used, all you get is the card, and 99.99% of them have the full-height bracket on them. I know that you don't truly need the bracket, but without it, it's just supported by the edge connector.

GigAHerZ wrote on 2024-11-11, 14:33:

I haven't done any comparative research on this, but i'm satisfied with low profile RX 550 by AMD on my "lab computer". Games are not the target for me on that machine, i just needed something recent enough so it could drive 2x4K screens.
But for free or almost free price, it may fit for you, too.

The Optiplex 5070 actually had a graphics card in, a Quadro P400, but all my searches say that while it's great for video applications, it's not good for games. In a comparison, the built-in Intel UHD 630 graphics came out on top in most categories.

I have to admit that I've had a bias against on-board Intel graphics based on my first experience with them. I bought a refurbished system that had on-board Intel graphics. The first time I ran a game, I noticed graphical glitches, so I checked and updated the drivers to the latest ones available. I ran the game again, the glitches were gone, I started playing and partway into the first level, the graphic driver crashed. I rebooted, ran the game again, started playing, same thing. I ended up buying a GT 430 card for about $100 and that worked much better. Of course the game itself (Unreal 2) kept crashing on me, because the universe does not want me to play that game, but the drivers were rock solid.

GigAHerZ wrote on 2024-11-11, 14:33:

If you can and are really struggling, maybe just buy normal card and never close the case of existing computer? 😜

I thought about that.

To be honest, I haven't even plugged in the Optiplex systems. They only have display port connectors, and I don't have any DP cables. Or monitors. I need to get a DP to HDMI adpater.

I have sort of a confession to make...

I have a ton of older stuff here. Twice a year, we have bulk trash pickup where the city will haul away almost anything you put on the curb for free. I find all sorts of stuff. I've got a bunch of monitors in different sizes, TVs, etc. And old computers, usually of the Pentium variety, although I have been finding more dual-core systems, and even a couple of partially stripped Lenovo i3 systems. Small form factor, of course. Most computers will be missing something, like the hard drive, some complete ones won't boot, etc.

I found a Sapphire HD7870 graphics card, but I have no idea if it works. It's too long to fit in my current system, and it needs a 650 watt power supply. I found a modular 650 watt power supply and the cables, but I haven't tested it.

I could probably assemble a pretty decent system with the parts I have lying around, but I'm not really that knowledgeable on building computers. I can take them apart and put them back together, but I'm no good at deciding what parts go together.

I'm also not keen on Windows 10/11, and giving Microsoft carte blanche to change my system at will. Like installing and enabling stuff like Recall. Yet, all the newest software is starting to require it. I know absolutely nothing about Linux, so that's not the most appealing option either. I've thought about just making a system for emulation and (offline) games, and not connecting it to the net, but I hear that Win10/11 don't like it if they can't phone home.

So mostly, I aspire to have a newer, faster system, but can't decide what to do. 😀

Depends on what OS do you want and how many slot you can spare. Best cheap for Windows 7+ would be a RX550 card, but keep in mind that some of them were with 64-bit memory bus and some with 128-bit.

I scored a used (but in box) 1050TI half-height some time back, but wound up putting it in a 'friends and family discount' system.

It's been dutifully playing FO4, and Wolfenstein New Collosus for its new steward. (I'll probably get it back again in a few years.)

I had gotten it for a hobby project that has sat around unfinished for a few years now. The old i5 motherboard (MSI Krait) I was intending to use for that project also got fingered for the 'new to you' friends and family build, so, that project is on semipermanent hiatus.

All that is kinda extra info, I just wanted to point out that said half-height gtx-1050 TI runs those games at a buttery smooth 60+fps.

Rekrul wrote on 2024-11-12, 02:22:

Of course, being used, all you get is the card, and 99.99% of them have the full-height bracket on them. I know that you don't truly need the bracket, but without it, it's just supported by the edge connector.

Yeah, you can buy those brackets in any size and port configuration on aliexpress and swap them out. That's what I did with my WinXp rig. I haven't swapped it though, cuz I'm lazy and my retro computer corner is pretty cramped, so I tend to avoid juggling my 17" CRT as much as I can 😉 But yes, you can use a GPU without that bracket, I can 100% attest to that!

wierd_w wrote on 2024-11-12, 07:18:

(...) […]
Show full quote

(...)

It's been dutifully playing FO4, and Wolfenstein New Collosus for its new steward. (I'll probably get it back again in a few years.)

(...)

All that is kinda extra info, I just wanted to point out that said half-height gtx-1050 TI runs those games at a buttery smooth 60+fps.

Hey, my first proper modern PC in ages I built back in 2016 had an i5 2400 and a GTX 1050ti and ran Fallout 4 on med-to-hi settings and DOOM 2k16 on ultra in 1080p pretty much flawlessly. Fallout 4 had its hiccups of course, but that's Fallout 4 for ya, hiccups are very much expected 😉

revolstar wrote on 2024-11-11, 14:20:

A low profile GT 730 or 1030 should be easy to come by. These can handle most AAA games from a decade ago in 1080p on low settings. An even better option would be a low profile 750/750ti or 1050/1050ti, but low profile variants of these are a bit harder to find I suppose.

+ GTX 745

GT 730 and GT 1030 are too completely different cards from performance perspective. Even the anemic GT1030 DDR4 is much faster, plus it has Vulkan support.
GTX 745 sits right between GT1030 DDR4 and GT1030 GDDR5, but has more limited feature set, but fortunately with Vulkan support.

Problem is the GPU market hasn't yet fully recovered from a period of scarcity and insane prices, and more fundamentally, that there is basically no such thing as a discrete low-end card anymore. Either integrated GPU suffices or you want performance and you generally want it in a big case. The number of people who want more than IGP can deliver but use a low profile case is very, very small, which also doesn't help bring prices down.

The most powerful cards you could fit into a system like this would be RTX3050 low profile cards. That's quite a lot of oomph with no need for an extra power connector, but they aren't cheap - over EUR 200 indeed. GTX1650 LP would be the next step down, but hard to find (no longer produced and only sold in tiny volumes) and expensive. Below that you hit the 1030 cards already mentioned.

Perhaps it's better to approach this from the other end: you want to do emulation stuff with these systems. What kind of software exactly and what demands does it place on hardware?

dionb wrote on 2024-11-14, 18:23:

Perhaps it's better to approach this from the other end: you want to do emulation stuff with these systems. What kind of software exactly and what demands does it place on hardware?

Before I answer that, I should confess that my current system is ANCIENT. I've been using it for many years now, and with some notable exceptions, it still does pretty much what I need. However, anyone else looking at it probably wouldn't even want to salvage any of the parts. Because of its age, I'm prevented from running pretty much any new software, including new emulators, or new versions of existing emulators. I'm amazed that new versions of MEDNAFEN still work for me, not that I use it much.

My system is a 2.4Ghz Core-2-Duo, with only 4GB of RAM, and a Gigabyte GT430 graphics card. I bought it refurbished, and it still has the original operating system, which is (brace yourself!): Windows XP. Yes, I am still using a system with XP on it, which is a major limiting factor in running any new software.

I've been reluctant to just nuke it and try installing something like Windows 7, not that I actually have a copy of Win7, or any other newer version. Of course now a lot of new programs don't even support Windows 7 anymore, they need Win10/11.

As for what I want to do with an emulation system would be to have something that could, hopefully, run the latest versions of PCSX2, Dolphin, and whatever the current emulators are for systems like the Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, PS Vita, Nintendo 3DS, etc. After all, pretty much any system can emulate the consoles before those.

Now before you tell me I need a top of the line gaming system for those, allow me to explain that I'm not someone who demands that their games be upscaled to 4K, and run at 120 FPS with HD texture packs. I know an i5, or even an i7 may not handle some of the later systems very well, if at all, but it would be nice to be able to try. Hell, I played through a good portion of the PS2 Transformers game with graphical glitches and a framerate about half what it should be. 😀

It would be great to just be able to run PS2 games at 2x resolution and full speed. I feel that's a realistic goal as this system can run quite a few games at what I consider playable speeds. Unfortunately Dolphin is a no-go for me. The last version I can run is too slow to be usable unless I disable the audio, and even then the Gamecube games I've tried don't play that well. And to have a decent Dreamcast emulator that doesn't choke on every other game I try. Plus I hear Atari Jaguar emulation has come a long way since Project Tempest and Virtual Jaguar.

I also kind of wanted to try Duckstation for PS1 emulation. My older version of ePSXe has played pretty much everything I threw at it, but it would be nice to be able to try out something newer.

Like I said, I know I'm not going to be able to run everything, but I'd be able to run more than I can now, and the performance would be miles better.

Rekrul wrote on 2024-11-15, 12:15:

Before I answer that, I should confess that my current system is ANCIENT. I've been using it for many years now, and with some n […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2024-11-14, 18:23:

Perhaps it's better to approach this from the other end: you want to do emulation stuff with these systems. What kind of software exactly and what demands does it place on hardware?

Before I answer that, I should confess that my current system is ANCIENT. I've been using it for many years now, and with some notable exceptions, it still does pretty much what I need. However, anyone else looking at it probably wouldn't even want to salvage any of the parts. Because of its age, I'm prevented from running pretty much any new software, including new emulators, or new versions of existing emulators. I'm amazed that new versions of MEDNAFEN still work for me, not that I use it much.

My system is a 2.4Ghz Core-2-Duo, with only 4GB of RAM, and a Gigabyte GT430 graphics card. I bought it refurbished, and it still has the original operating system, which is (brace yourself!): Windows XP. Yes, I am still using a system with XP on it, which is a major limiting factor in running any new software.

I've been reluctant to just nuke it and try installing something like Windows 7, not that I actually have a copy of Win7, or any other newer version. Of course now a lot of new programs don't even support Windows 7 anymore, they need Win10/11.

As for what I want to do with an emulation system would be to have something that could, hopefully, run the latest versions of PCSX2, Dolphin, and whatever the current emulators are for systems like the Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, PS Vita, Nintendo 3DS, etc. After all, pretty much any system can emulate the consoles before those.

Now before you tell me I need a top of the line gaming system for those, allow me to explain that I'm not someone who demands that their games be upscaled to 4K, and run at 120 FPS with HD texture packs. I know an i5, or even an i7 may not handle some of the later systems very well, if at all, but it would be nice to be able to try. Hell, I played through a good portion of the PS2 Transformers game with graphical glitches and a framerate about half what it should be. 😀

It would be great to just be able to run PS2 games at 2x resolution and full speed. I feel that's a realistic goal as this system can run quite a few games at what I consider playable speeds. Unfortunately Dolphin is a no-go for me. The last version I can run is too slow to be usable unless I disable the audio, and even then the Gamecube games I've tried don't play that well. And to have a decent Dreamcast emulator that doesn't choke on every other game I try. Plus I hear Atari Jaguar emulation has come a long way since Project Tempest and Virtual Jaguar.

I also kind of wanted to try Duckstation for PS1 emulation. My older version of ePSXe has played pretty much everything I threw at it, but it would be nice to be able to try out something newer.

Like I said, I know I'm not going to be able to run everything, but I'd be able to run more than I can now, and the performance would be miles better.

So basically, the systems are going to replace your veteran daily driver? Most definitely not going to tell you to get the newest bestest most expensive stuff. If you have cash to burn and want to burn it on that, sure. But in the real world we don't all and to be honest, I find that there's more satisfaction to be gained from getting whatever you can scrape together to do what you want rather than just throwing a lot of money (that you may not have) at it.

I'm not really into the emulator scene (other than DOSBox), but in this situation it's simple: you need whatever you can get and what you have been able to get is superior to what you already have. Less simple is the GPU. Doing a quick google says that Duckstation supports Vulkan, which has AMD heritage but is cross-platform. Looking at benchmarks for it, the ranking is almost identical to Tom's Hardware's rankings. Which suggests it really does support AMD and nVidia equally and you can compare pretty generic game benchmarks to judge performance.

But... that's Vulkan. To what extent Duckstation is GPU or CPU limited? I don't see any decent benckmarks but comments suggest that it mainly runs on GPU. In that case it's a matter of going for the fastest you can afford I'm afraid. What would be good to know - but I can't easily find (maybe the 1001 Youtube videos on the topic might say something, but I'm not about to watch stuff about this) what the minimum would be to get good playability. If that minimum is an option for you, it makes sense to go for it. If not, don't bother...

Duckstation works acceptably on most gen6 or newer iseries intels, and should work acceptably on amd as well.

I can confirm it runs acceptable/smooth on my guilty purchase (gpdwin4,2023 model) which has mobile radeon, and 8gb ram.

If you are running linux, vulkan is supported on intel igpus as old as cherryview. (This is NOT the case on windows! Intel has *staunchly refused* to release drivers with such features for older igpus!)

I have a DellXPS 15 that has integrated cherryview and discrete gtx1050TI video. I can turn off the nvidia video and give duckstation a whirl if you want.

Quadro K620 are usually a good deal, more so than 730s anyway, end up near 1030s performance wise. You can snag them for $20, might even get a 5 pack at less than that per card.

There's an HD8xx0 that is a sly version of the R7-550 I think, 8790?? Not sure if I am remembering right, sometimes those go cheap.