Very interesting, forgive me but I also have some motherboards, which I would like to clean, before I thought a little alcohol was enough, but sometimes it doesn't work, and recently I saw on some YouTube videos, which are washed with (hot) water ?), and there are those who use soap or other cleaning products.
I was thinking of using a container, but I think the plastic ones are not good, they could release some electrostatic charge, in short, if you want to share, how to clean and what to use, personally I would appreciate it very much, but once the cleaning is finished, it should be dried in rush.
Plastic container is fine, so long it has water in it (especially soapy water, which is a rather decent electrical conductor.) Thus, dipping a board in such would be like dipping a board in a liquid anti-static bag - basically, all charge will be equalized among all pins and points on the board, so there won't be any static charge build up anywhere.
Also, as others pointed, modern boards are indeed a lot more robust than one might imagine (there's even a good collab video between Electroboom and LTT where they abused a bunch of boards with a static discharge gun.)
As for cleaning of electronics...
Again, as the others stated here, soap (dish detergent) + water is my recommended method too.
I use a variety of brushes for the actual cleaning: a tootbrush for the memory slots and pins inside the expansion slots, a medium hair length paint brush for general cleaning and in areas where the tootbrush bristles are too short to reach into (i.e. nuks and crannies between rear IO ports), and a long-bristle paint brush for cleaning heatsinks and coolers (after taking off fan, of course.)
In regards to drying... I suppose I'm luckier than others here, living in Southeastern Europe currently, where we have a lot of bright and sunny days. In the summer, I can leave a board under the sun and it's typically dry in just a few hours, especially if there is a bit of a breeze. Lately, I leave out my electronics for a day or two, now that the day is much shorter and the sun not as strong (plus, humidity actually goes up in the late fall and winter months here, so drying takes longer.) The rinse with distilled water is indeed a good idea, especially if you're going to let a board dry "naturally" / without assistance of any power tools (hair dryer, hot air, or compressed air). Speaking of drying with compressed air... be careful with the nozzle strength / airflow speed - really high airflow can cause static buildup discharge, from what I've read. Could also knock out marginally-solder components (that were perhaps compromised from physical stress/damage.)
Finally, since I know this has been discussed here before: using a dishwasher to wash electronics - that one's a big NO-NO, at least according to some technical guides. Reason being is that when PCBs are exposed to water at higher temperatures, at higher pressures, and for a more extended period of time, that could lead to moisture ingress in the PCB, which could cause partial short-circuits and/or conductive paths over time. In short, it could wreck hardware over time. So I don't recommend it, even though I know there are a few members that have done it here and didn't have any negative experience from it (so far.)
some time ago I tried to detach a large SMD from it, it's not good, I guess it doesn't heat up enough.
Yeah, a hair dryer won't get hot enough for that. IIRC, most will only go up to about 60-70-ish Celsius very near the tip, if even that high - and that's by design, to prevent scalding. In contrast, most SMD components need to get to about 190-220C minimum before the solder on their leads will melt and allow for removal (depending if Leaded or Lead-free solder was used.)
Although before using the hot air, it is advisable to give it a vigorous downward move, which should release the water remaining in the cracks.
Yes, if you feel like it. 😀
Just be careful not to hit the board / piece of hardware you're doing this to into something else. I did once, but it was with an old beige keyboard that was built like a tank. Made huge noise, though... and glad it didn't punch a hole through the (dry)wall. With PCBs, it's worse - anything slipping from your hand could give you bad cuts... though I suppose you already know that, having worked on computers long enough. 😉
Actual production cleaning methods can involve much harsher stuff than soap+water
Indeed.
Not only that, but proper drying of PCBs before reworking is usually to have the PCB go into a drying oven for 4+ hours at 105C - now that's quite hot! Apparently safe for the hardware, though (except for batteries, of course, which should be removed not only for drying but also prior to washing too.)
momakawrote on 2024-11-13, 21:13:Plastic container is fine, so long it has water in it (especially soapy water, which is a rather decent electrical conductor.) T […] Show full quote
Very interesting, forgive me but I also have some motherboards, which I would like to clean, before I thought a little alcohol was enough, but sometimes it doesn't work, and recently I saw on some YouTube videos, which are washed with (hot) water ?), and there are those who use soap or other cleaning products.
I was thinking of using a container, but I think the plastic ones are not good, they could release some electrostatic charge, in short, if you want to share, how to clean and what to use, personally I would appreciate it very much, but once the cleaning is finished, it should be dried in rush.
Plastic container is fine, so long it has water in it (especially soapy water, which is a rather decent electrical conductor.) Thus, dipping a board in such would be like dipping a board in a liquid anti-static bag - basically, all charge will be equalized among all pins and points on the board, so there won't be any static charge build up anywhere.
Also, as others pointed, modern boards are indeed a lot more robust than one might imagine (there's even a good collab video between Electroboom and LTT where they abused a bunch of boards with a static discharge gun.)
As for cleaning of electronics...
Again, as the others stated here, soap (dish detergent) + water is my recommended method too.
I use a variety of brushes for the actual cleaning: a tootbrush for the memory slots and pins inside the expansion slots, a medium hair length paint brush for general cleaning and in areas where the tootbrush bristles are too short to reach into (i.e. nuks and crannies between rear IO ports), and a long-bristle paint brush for cleaning heatsinks and coolers (after taking off fan, of course.)
In regards to drying... I suppose I'm luckier than others here, living in Southeastern Europe currently, where we have a lot of bright and sunny days. In the summer, I can leave a board under the sun and it's typically dry in just a few hours, especially if there is a bit of a breeze. Lately, I leave out my electronics for a day or two, now that the day is much shorter and the sun not as strong (plus, humidity actually goes up in the late fall and winter months here, so drying takes longer.) The rinse with distilled water is indeed a good idea, especially if you're going to let a board dry "naturally" / without assistance of any power tools (hair dryer, hot air, or compressed air). Speaking of drying with compressed air... be careful with the nozzle strength / airflow speed - really high airflow can cause static buildup discharge, from what I've read. Could also knock out marginally-solder components (that were perhaps compromised from physical stress/damage.)
Finally, since I know this has been discussed here before: using a dishwasher to wash electronics - that one's a big NO-NO, at least according to some technical guides. Reason being is that when PCBs are exposed to water at higher temperatures, at higher pressures, and for a more extended period of time, that could lead to moisture ingress in the PCB, which could cause partial short-circuits and/or conductive paths over time. In short, it could wreck hardware over time. So I don't recommend it, even though I know there are a few members that have done it here and didn't have any negative experience from it (so far.)
some time ago I tried to detach a large SMD from it, it's not good, I guess it doesn't heat up enough.
Yeah, a hair dryer won't get hot enough for that. IIRC, most will only go up to about 60-70-ish Celsius very near the tip, if even that high - and that's by design, to prevent scalding. In contrast, most SMD components need to get to about 190-220C minimum before the solder on their leads will melt and allow for removal (depending if Leaded or Lead-free solder was used.)
Although before using the hot air, it is advisable to give it a vigorous downward move, which should release the water remaining in the cracks.
Yes, if you feel like it. 😀
Just be careful not to hit the board / piece of hardware you're doing this to into something else. I did once, but it was with an old beige keyboard that was built like a tank. Made huge noise, though... and glad it didn't punch a hole through the (dry)wall. With PCBs, it's worse - anything slipping from your hand could give you bad cuts... though I suppose you already know that, having worked on computers long enough. 😉
Actual production cleaning methods can involve much harsher stuff than soap+water
Indeed.
Not only that, but proper drying of PCBs before reworking is usually to have the PCB go into a drying oven for 4+ hours at 105C - now that's quite hot! Apparently safe for the hardware, though (except for batteries, of course, which should be removed not only for drying but also prior to washing too.)
Thank you very much for the suggestions, I will try with water and a vinegar cleaning product, which I think can be useful, especially in the contacts of the slots and RAM.
As soon as I start the work, I will publish something on my Page here on Vogons, and I will show the photos of before and after cleaning, it will take a few days, I am currently working on some MB, of various kinds, S.7 Slot1 S.370 S.478.
AMD 286-16 287-10 4MB HD 45MB VGA 256KB
AMD 386DX-40 Intel 387 8MB HD 81MB VGA 256KB
Cyrix 486DLC-40 IIT387-40 8MB VGA 512KB
AMD 5X86-133 16MB VGA VLB CL5428 2MB and many others
AMD K62+ 550 SOYO 5EMA+ and many others
AST Pentium Pro 200 MHz L2 256KB
Speaking of cleaning and plastic tubs, it reminded me of what some car guys were doing about a decade back...
Take one tote, take one orbital sander, one ratchet strap, put water, detergent, dirty parts in tote, leaving about a hands breadth for slop room below the brim, then strap the sander, pad down to the middle of a large side of the tote with the ratchet strap, and turn it on.... kinda like infrasonic ultrasonic, agitates the bath and gets the dirt off.
Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.
Today, I finished the TUSL2 build I've been working on. Does anyone know anything about this Gold/Orange Lian-Li? I'm guessing it was a pre-built from 2001? It had the sticker off the box of the Celeron that was in it (Now P3-1133). I was trying to find even a picture of one while on lunch, but no dice. Might look through old mags later, see if I can find one/it.
System Spec: (quickly, to quench curiosity)
ASUS TUSL2(1.03) Pentium III 1133, 2x256 Kingston ValuRam, ASUS MagicV8170 (GF420MX), NetGearFA-310TX
a couple of days ago I finished 90% of the restoration of a very damaged 386 board I salvaged from destruction a right a year ago. some help to repair/restore a leaking battery ravaged motherboard
today I use it to test one more 30 pin memory module I found. It was OK.
A couple of days ago, in the process of testing some modules, I tough I had broke the MB again, but thanks Zeus it was not, but a bad module mixed with almost identical good ones.
kinetixwrote on 2024-11-14, 02:17:a couple of days ago I finished 90% of the restoration of a very damaged 386 board I salvaged from destruction a right a year ag […] Show full quote
a couple of days ago I finished 90% of the restoration of a very damaged 386 board I salvaged from destruction a right a year ago. some help to repair/restore a leaking battery ravaged motherboard
today I use it to test one more 30 pin memory module I found. It was OK.
A couple of days ago, in the process of testing some modules, I tough I had broke the MB again, but thanks Zeus it was not, but a bad module mixed with almost identical good ones.
that must be satisfying, to bring it back to life over time like that 😀
waterbeesjewrote on 2024-11-12, 21:56:I had a little time to play around with my QDI V4P895GRN board and a Cyrix 5x86-100 cpu.
This gives me wie a nice 486 setup :) […] Show full quote
I had a little time to play around with my QDI V4P895GRN board and a Cyrix 5x86-100 cpu.
This gives me wie a nice 486 setup 😀
Thank you very much for the suggestions, I will try with water and a vinegar cleaning product, which I think can be useful, especially in the contacts of the slots and RAM.
As soon as I start the work, I will publish something on my Page here on Vogons, and I will show the photos of before and after cleaning, it will take a few days, I am currently working on some MB, of various kinds, S.7 Slot1 S.370 S.478.
Be careful with vinegar. It is still a mild acid and can strip the protective coating off of metals, especially copper, if left soaking for too long. Use it for scrubbing, not for soaking. Soaking in dish soap and a wash with IPH have been my go-to methods of cleaning with good success.
Vinegar contains acetic acid, which reacts with copper tarnish and breaks the bond between the two. However, prolonged exposure to vinegar can dull or etch certain types of copper finishes, so it's best to test the solution on a small area of the copper first.
I am getting conflicting results online, but I'm pretty sure that a board I tried soaking in vinegar once had the gold coating stripped off of all of the copper contacts. I have never done a second test to confirm, but all of the metal looked worse after the vinegar bath, though the PCB itself was cleaned very well. I did leave it in the bath for way too long.
Been working on my A1000-lookalike bezel for the Checkmate 1500 case. It’s safe to scrap prototype 3.2 now as I have too many modifications to implement, reached a dead end, back to square one.
Nevertheless, to check the feasibility of following steps I painted the bezel with RAL 1013, which should be the correct color according to the website. It does match the metal case, that’s good enough for me. Printing to and using water slide decal paper (skullpaper®) did not work as expected, the color didn’t stick the paper and disintegrates on physical contact while placing the decals.
Try some coats of clearcoat lacquer over the top of the print on the decal paper.
The oldskool way of doing decals, was to get some of that dry adhesive paper that is moisten to activate adhesive, like stamps and envelopes used to be. Spray or brush 2 coats lacquer on that (adhesive side), let dry, paint or print onto that, then put 2 coats lacquer over it. Cut out decal close to outline, because there's the lacquer film on the blank bits.... then float that off in lukewarm water, sometimes having the tiniest spot of dish soap added would be helpful.
Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.
Try some coats of clearcoat lacquer over the top of the print on the decal paper.
The oldskool way of doing decals, was to get some of that dry adhesive paper that is moisten to activate adhesive, like stamps and envelopes used to be. Spray or brush 2 coats lacquer on that (adhesive side), let dry, paint or print onto that, then put 2 coats lacquer over it. Cut out decal close to outline, because there's the lacquer film on the blank bits.... then float that off in lukewarm water, sometimes having the tiniest spot of dish soap added would be helpful.
Make the badge spot empty and pay someone to do a high quality two-color FDM 3D print for you with very small nozzle size. Or have a nice one printed on foil paper or with a clear acrylic dome.
I added a proper line-out to my Neo Geo MV1 board, along with misc improvements such as better opamps to bring down THD and noisefloor and some changes in filter cutoffs. I even managed to find 4 matching opamps with 1990 date code to fit in with the other chips on the machine 🤣.
The speaker and headphone outputs of the device are quite noisy and sound very dirty (0.2% THD and higher by spec of the parts used) due to use of some bottom barrel parts and nobody going to hear anything in a noisy arcade room anyway 🤣. Now things are good enough with no perceptible noise floor and very nice and clean sound ~
Got an AV to USB 2.0 capture stick, and trying to use OBS Studio to transfer some tapes to the PC. It's not going so well, because every once in a while, the image becomes black and white and ripply, and the audio gets noisy.
I only have 3 tapes to try at the moment, and they all do that. However, they are all of the same batch and age (quite old), so still not 100% sure whether it's the VCR or the tapes.
The tape can play for anywhere between a few minutes and an hour before the effects start. Stopping and starting over typically makes it play OK again, but the problems always come back. I don't have the patience to capture a full-length film a few minutes at a time, so this project may be dead in the water, unless it happens to be a problem of the VCR that I can resolve. Any ideas?
Split the output into a TV to see if this dropping out at the output (VCR) or at the capture device. There's no way to know for sure without testing it.
If you can get one, a VCR with S-VIDEO out will be slightly better than RCA.
I took apart my Gateway Solo 2500 to fix the backlight. The palmrest has to be removed to access the inverter, and it's sandwiched between the base chassis and the hinges. To remove the palmrest, there are screws under the battery, floppy drive, and touchpad. Then you need to remove a metal cover over the inverter/LCD board (inverter, status LCD, main display connector, and power button), which is wedged under the CPU heatsink and card slot daughterboard. Next, you need to remove the entire board to remove the plastic insulator over the inverter, and the two screws near the middle are slightly too large for the holes in the PCB. After all of that, you need to reinstall all of the boards that you just removed (without the metal panels) to be able to power it up and start probing.
After all of that, it started working again. I could see that there was no switching activity on any of the transistors (PQ1 was the easiest to probe), and then I suddenly noticed that the LCD was lit up. Now I'm tracing the enable circuit, which appears to simply switch Vcc to the TL494 through some transistors (a PEMD12 dual PNP/NPN transistor at PU1) driven by an AND gate (next to the K7 marking, but it's probably U5 - the U is obscured by a via). One input to the AND gate goes to the video/card board, so I might also find out why the Xaos demo turns the backlight off until I reboot. The other input goes to a trace on an inner layer, but I eventually traced it to the second cable that goes to the motherboard. I can see that the input going to the video board is slightly below the high-level input voltage for the AND gate, but that's it.
I didn't find a schematic online (it appears to be a Quanta SQ2), and it would probably only be for the motherboard anyway. I would need schematics for three boards.
