VOGONS


First post, by andy120

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I have a hantek 6022be oscilloscope which i cant make head nor tail of getting to give a signal like the 'old' scopes used in the articles. Anyone tried to use one of these things to do alignments?

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Reply 1 of 6, by DaveDDS

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I normally align floppys the "easy way" .. not overly preceise, but I usually find it more than "good enough".

See my ImageDisk available on "DavesOldComputers"
It has a test function which will give you an audio signal showing how many right and wrong sectors are read in each
track revolution.

Using a known good disk (alignment disk, or formatted on a new drive etc.) I will test inner/mid/outer tracke, and set the drive to the
center of the best levels over those tracks... has worked well for me many times.

Dave Dunfield - https://dunfield.themindfactory.com

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Reply 2 of 6, by BitWrangler

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When new floppy drives were still $50 a pop middling 90s not late, I used to find that low density DRDOS distribution disks were quite forgiving and you could do a rough alignment on those, then tighten it up with high density MSDOS distribution disks.... IDK how well that works these days with bit rot. Also back then they all seemed to have alignment patterns which would help you check for speed synchronization with mains frequency light flicker. Unfortunately for this topic I am blessed with a relative abundance of spare drives, so when I have a problem, I go "gah" and switch to another, so I'm getting a small pile that I will have to deal with, but having not done so in a number of years I am out of practice.

Anyway, general oscilloscope hints, just focus on using channel 1, and ignore timebase triggering, usually they're boxed off with a marking in sections, so you'll find your three knobs all in one of those most likely, best guess, upper left grouping.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 3 of 6, by Horun

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andy120 wrote on 2024-11-24, 00:54:

I have a hantek 6022be oscilloscope which i cant make head nor tail of getting to give a signal like the 'old' scopes used in the articles. Anyone tried to use one of these things to do alignments?

Sorry cannot give any input on the 6022be. Am used to those stand alone's with built in screens (like Hantek DSO2D15) not sure I could handle one that I need a computer hooked up..

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 4 of 6, by maxtherabbit

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If you actually have access to a real Analog Alignment Disk, the cat's eye pattern on a scope will get you a significantly more precise alignment than you could achieve by any other method. If you don't, and are simply using a commercially duplicated software distribution floppy, I wouldn't even bother with the scope and instead use the method recommended by Dave in the first reply.

Modern digital scopes generally don't have a great way to do the channel summing that most analog alignment procedures recommend. They *can* do it, but it is laggy and confusing to look at. My recommendation is to still connect the two channel probes to each output of the differential amp but instead of summing them together just display both of them separately at the same time.

Reply 5 of 6, by andy120

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acquired an old oscilloscope. will see how that works out.

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Reply 6 of 6, by Deunan

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andy120 wrote on 2024-11-24, 00:54:

Anyone tried to use one of these things to do alignments?

I use a somewhat modern digital scope for that (DS2072A hacked to 2302A). Don't have a proper alignment disk though so I use several OEM software ones that I found over the years to be extremly close to each other and never giving me any issues. The idea is the duplication machine that made these was properly calibrated and cared for, so it produced media with tracks in the pretty much ideal position.

With setup like this you find the output of the head amp(s), there are test points and even test pins soldered for that, and you adjust the head for the max signal strength - but checking at several places over the media (track 0 obviously, but also last track and something in the middle). This is because one particular track might be a little off, or the stepping motor might get some positions closer than others. A real alignment disk has special patterns written between the tracks to get an eye, or you go for minimal sum of signals on those. This also depends if you need to do any head azimuth correction, although on modern drives you can't - head is glued in. Some correction is possible by moving the entire upper clamping arm but that only applies to the upper head. In my case I just go for max signal as this is the most optimal position for azimuth as well.

Now there is the issue of how to actually move the heads around - for proper job there are special jigs and/or set screws that are installed for this task. But all these are drive model specific so I just use my fingers. Takes a lot of patience and using IMD for spin and step control is recommended anyway because it lets you find the track more easily and not make the mistake of positioning the head on +1/-1 track by accident. All in all if you can be patient you'll get it right eventually, even if it takes an hour or two. Take breaks, nothing good comes from frustration and/or tired, shaky hands. Unless I have dozens of drives to go through and very little time this is my preferred method to do it. I often find older 5.25" drives in such a sorry state that complete disassembly and cleaning is required, so I had to learn to put them together properly after that.