noshutdown wrote on 2024-11-02, 17:05:

marxveix wrote on 2024-11-02, 16:12:

Geforce2/3 and ATi Rage128 Pro works well for me @ K6-2+/3+. Some should say what driver Radeon 7 8 9 series likes for AMD K6 build, they i havent got working as i like for old K6.

"work well" means to achieve comparable performance to the pentium2, not just to get things running.

AMD K6-3 is a slower cpu, you cant get it with same level with Pentium 3, you have to use bit older graphics card with older driver, that are optimized to k6 and 3dnow, because of that, newer cards dont work well and slower card are slow. 3DFX works, some Geforce work and Rage128 Pro works. Rage128 Pro for up to DX6.1, Geforce2 up to DX7, Geforce 3 max at DX8, most cases you dont need DX9 card for AMD K6, but you can use DX9 card with K6. I use even Rage Pro with AMD K6 and it works ok, still Geforce2/3 is best choice for it, 3DFX is expencive to buy, Geforce2 MX400 64MB / Geforce 3 TI200 64MB is good choice for it.

Many dont use 3DNow with other cards than 3DFX Glide, you can use 3DNow OpenGL with ATi/Nvidia. There are many games with 3Dnow support and graphics card driver should also support it. Quake2 you can select 3Dnow OpenGL, not just OpenGL. SSE is faster than 3DNow, but 3Dnow is supported with older titles, even Phenom II has 3Dnow.

Has anyone had any issues getting the earlier Nvidia drivers to work properly? Using a Geforce 2 GTS.
I can install most any drivers just fine I've tried 5.32, 6.18, 7.58, 7.76, 8.05, etc and they install fine but will crash on either 3DMark 99 or 3Dmark 2000.
Not entirely stable in games but are more stable, I've ran benchmarks Unreal, Quake 2, Test Drive 6, even synthetic tests like Final Reality run ok.
But not 3DMark. If I install a later driver, 12.41 and later then everything works but benchmark performance is negatively impacted.
Doesn't really seem to matter much in games.
System is otherwise entirely stable.
I've yet to try another Geforce 2 card with the early drivers but I think that I have a Geforce 2 MX200 somewhere.
I have confirmed that my TNT2 card works with the earlier drivers.
I've formatted and reloaded Windows, tried both Direct X 7, and 8.1
Tried forcing AGP 1x, lower clocks, different ram. Forced memory interleave on/off.
I do have a Geforce 3 ti200 that I can test with, but I haven't done so yet.
Tightest ram timings set in BIOS, loosening them doesn't make a difference.
I don't think that I have tried any other 4n1 drivers except 4.35, but I might have forgotten.
I'm open to any ideas.

System specs:
Tekram P5MVP-B4
K6-3+ 450 @ 600(100x6) 2.3volt
128MB RAM (PC133 single sided)
Geforce 2 GTS 32MB 2x AGP
ESS Audiodrive ISA sound card
VIA 4-in-1 4.35 chipset drivers
Windows 98SE no unofficial patches or packs

7.76 works for me @3DMark99/2000, but i am using Geforce2 MX400 and Geforce3 TI200 for it, not Geforce2 GTS, it should also work.

noshutdown wrote on 2024-11-02, 13:51:

leileilol wrote on 2024-11-02, 03:13:

01's VERY representative for Geforce2+ testing and better for that than 00 (and any other prior 3dMarks). Just because the numbers aren't sky high enough doesn't mean it's not a good test. It'll just brush over nature and pixel shader tests (which were extremely new at the time of 3dMark01's release as only GF3 could do them), and in the case of GF2, no EMBM test. It's also a good case for showing the compensation of the HWT&L over the K6.

i have a solid belief that neither nvidia nor ati cards can work well with k6, the only thing that can save it is 3dfx.
of course, 3dfx won't run some newer games that geforce and radeon can, but those games weren't developed with k6 in mind, either.

You dont need 3dfx. I DO like 3dfx though 😀

I have a K6-3+ 400@616mhz with a Geforce2 Ti on a ASUS P5A motherboard.

On cfg tweaked Unreal Tournament I get around 75fps in my 10 minutes long time demo. with my tweaked Quake2 with good visuals I get 135 fps in demo2. With my tweaked version of Quake3 with good visuals I get 138 frames per second. (this with the exe, dll:s and the high quality cfg in the Quake3toTheMaxPatch).
I cant get near these scores with a 3dfx card.

Vanilla default scores is as follows. Unreal Tournament. 60 something.
Quake2 dont know. Around 85 ? Vanilla Quake3 34 frames per second. 3dmark2000 5160 points

My point being that Nvidia can work very well on a K6-3+ if you put a lot of effort in it. I can play most 1999-2000 games with descent frame rates on that machine. BUT i need to do some serious tweaking mostbof the times. I even managed to squeeze out 57fps of call of duty. (Vanilla 11fps) That game had a 2.0 ghz minimum requirement

Its not so much fun to play 3d games with vanilla settings.

marxveix wrote on 2024-12-06, 11:52:

7.76 works for me @3DMark99/2000, but i am using Geforce2 MX400 and Geforce3 TI200 for it, not Geforce2 GTS, it should also work.

Thank you for checking.
I tried my Geforce 3 Ti200 and it worked fine. I also dug out my cheapie Geforce 2MX-200 and it also worked.
Funny thing is that this card USED to work on this machine with the newer drivers, and the card still works fine in my P3 machine. Just strange.
However, the Geforce 3 ti200 netted me about 3980 points in 3DMark 2000 with the 7.76 driver.
I played around with other cards and was able to get the highest score with my Radeon 7500 - 4007 points.

The machine works great with all the Radeon cards I've tried so far but I can't get AGP acceleration to work. Tried allt he VIA 4n1 drivers, tried all the ATI GART drivers. Tried forcing 1x mode with Riva Tuner.
I'm not sure. it's strange.
Going to try some of the other ATI specific tools at some point and see if that makes a difference.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2024-12-09, 17:12:

The machine works great with all the Radeon cards I've tried so far but I can't get AGP acceleration to work. Tried allt he VIA […]
Show full quote

marxveix wrote on 2024-12-06, 11:52:

7.76 works for me @3DMark99/2000, but i am using Geforce2 MX400 and Geforce3 TI200 for it, not Geforce2 GTS, it should also work.

The machine works great with all the Radeon cards I've tried so far but I can't get AGP acceleration to work. Tried allt he VIA 4n1 drivers, tried all the ATI GART drivers. Tried forcing 1x mode with Riva Tuner.
I'm not sure. it's strange.
Going to try some of the other ATI specific tools at some point and see if that makes a difference.

If you get over 4000 points from 3DMark2000 with AMD K6 then AGP should work well already? I have had smaller K6 scores, just without any OC. VIA 4in1 drivers are picky and some or most ATi drivers have chipset drivers included in the driver package and they overwrite them with default installation i think. I usually remove them from ati driver inf and before ati driver install i install better working via 4in1 drivers.

Using at the moment VIA P4M266A and have problems with 4in1 driver from VIA @ graphics drivers and 3DMark99, games and other stuff seems working,3DMark99 will exit before the bencmark starts and the same ATi driver works with other chipsets from k6/pentium3 era i have used before and 3DMark99 there works normally.

marxveix wrote on 2024-12-13, 08:55:

Jasin Natael wrote on 2024-12-09, 17:12:

The machine works great with all the Radeon cards I've tried so far but I can't get AGP acceleration to work. Tried allt he VIA […]
Show full quote

marxveix wrote on 2024-12-06, 11:52:

7.76 works for me @3DMark99/2000, but i am using Geforce2 MX400 and Geforce3 TI200 for it, not Geforce2 GTS, it should also work.

The machine works great with all the Radeon cards I've tried so far but I can't get AGP acceleration to work. Tried allt he VIA 4n1 drivers, tried all the ATI GART drivers. Tried forcing 1x mode with Riva Tuner.
I'm not sure. it's strange.
Going to try some of the other ATI specific tools at some point and see if that makes a difference.

If you get over 4000 points from 3DMark2000 with AMD K6 then AGP should work well already? I have had smaller K6 scores, just without any OC. VIA 4in1 drivers are picky and some or most ATi drivers have chipset drivers included in the driver package and they overwrite them with default installation i think. I usually remove them from ati driver inf and before ati driver install i install better working via 4in1 drivers.

Using at the moment VIA P4M266A and have problems with 4in1 driver from VIA @ graphics drivers and 3DMark99, games and other stuff seems working,3DMark99 will exit before the bencmark starts and the same ATi driver works with other chipsets from k6/pentium3 era i have used before and 3DMark99 there works normally.

I get what you are saying, but I'm not sure how much the working AGP acceleration would even bring to the table. Everything runs acceptably with really any of the cards I've tried, it just bugs me that it doesn't seem to be working as it should. ATi GART installer has a utility to check for exiting drivers and you can use it to check if there is one present. It detects when then VIA driver is present so I'm pretty sure that I've gotten any/all of them installed properly. Just not sure what else it left to try. Probably end up buying another Geforce 2 card of some type and use it instead. Save the Radeons for another machine.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2024-12-09, 17:12:

Thank you for checking. I tried my Geforce 3 Ti200 and it worked fine. I also dug out my cheapie Geforce 2MX-200 and it also wo […]
Show full quote

marxveix wrote on 2024-12-06, 11:52:

7.76 works for me @3DMark99/2000, but i am using Geforce2 MX400 and Geforce3 TI200 for it, not Geforce2 GTS, it should also work.

Thank you for checking.
I tried my Geforce 3 Ti200 and it worked fine. I also dug out my cheapie Geforce 2MX-200 and it also worked.
Funny thing is that this card USED to work on this machine with the newer drivers, and the card still works fine in my P3 machine. Just strange.
However, the Geforce 3 ti200 netted me about 3980 points in 3DMark 2000 with the 7.76 driver.
I played around with other cards and was able to get the highest score with my Radeon 7500 - 4007 points.

The machine works great with all the Radeon cards I've tried so far but I can't get AGP acceleration to work. Tried allt he VIA 4n1 drivers, tried all the ATI GART drivers. Tried forcing 1x mode with Riva Tuner.
I'm not sure. it's strange.
Going to try some of the other ATI specific tools at some point and see if that makes a difference.

That Radeon 7500 score seems pretty good, what drivers etc did you use?

Skalabala wrote on 2024-12-14, 14:21:

Jasin Natael wrote on 2024-12-09, 17:12:

Thank you for checking. I tried my Geforce 3 Ti200 and it worked fine. I also dug out my cheapie Geforce 2MX-200 and it also wo […]
Show full quote

marxveix wrote on 2024-12-06, 11:52:

7.76 works for me @3DMark99/2000, but i am using Geforce2 MX400 and Geforce3 TI200 for it, not Geforce2 GTS, it should also work.

Thank you for checking.
I tried my Geforce 3 Ti200 and it worked fine. I also dug out my cheapie Geforce 2MX-200 and it also worked.
Funny thing is that this card USED to work on this machine with the newer drivers, and the card still works fine in my P3 machine. Just strange.
However, the Geforce 3 ti200 netted me about 3980 points in 3DMark 2000 with the 7.76 driver.
I played around with other cards and was able to get the highest score with my Radeon 7500 - 4007 points.

The machine works great with all the Radeon cards I've tried so far but I can't get AGP acceleration to work. Tried allt he VIA 4n1 drivers, tried all the ATI GART drivers. Tried forcing 1x mode with Riva Tuner.
I'm not sure. it's strange.
Going to try some of the other ATI specific tools at some point and see if that makes a difference.

That Radeon 7500 score seems pretty good, what drivers etc did you use?

I was pleasantly surprised.
I used this driver from the Vogons driver library. it is from November of 2001.
https://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=703

I tried the same driver with my Radeon 7200 SDR and with stock 166mhz clocks it pulled about 3300pts and OC'd to 183mhz it pulled about 3500pts.
I was pretty pleased with these results as well.
My 9250 AGP (250/200DDR 128bit) requires a later driver and takes a bit of a hit but is also rock stable.

I tried a few different recommended versions like Catalyst 4.3 and 6.2 etc.
They all worked great, but the performance difference was significant.
Other than the expected table fog, palleted textures etc, I've not had any stability or functional issues.
Honestly I've always found the generic "ATi driver=bad" to be somewhat overblown, but maybe I'm just not well versed enough to know the difference.....

Jasin Natael wrote on 2024-12-13, 17:09:

marxveix wrote on 2024-12-13, 08:55:

Jasin Natael wrote on 2024-12-09, 17:12:

The machine works great with all the Radeon cards I've tried so far but I can't get AGP acceleration to work. Tried allt he VIA 4n1 drivers, tried all the ATI GART drivers. Tried forcing 1x mode with Riva Tuner.
I'm not sure. it's strange.
Going to try some of the other ATI specific tools at some point and see if that makes a difference.

If you get over 4000 points from 3DMark2000 with AMD K6 then AGP should work well already? I have had smaller K6 scores, just without any OC. VIA 4in1 drivers are picky and some or most ATi drivers have chipset drivers included in the driver package and they overwrite them with default installation i think. I usually remove them from ati driver inf and before ati driver install i install better working via 4in1 drivers.

Using at the moment VIA P4M266A and have problems with 4in1 driver from VIA @ graphics drivers and 3DMark99, games and other stuff seems working,3DMark99 will exit before the bencmark starts and the same ATi driver works with other chipsets from k6/pentium3 era i have used before and 3DMark99 there works normally.

I get what you are saying, but I'm not sure how much the working AGP acceleration would even bring to the table. Everything runs acceptably with really any of the cards I've tried, it just bugs me that it doesn't seem to be working as it should. ATi GART installer has a utility to check for exiting drivers and you can use it to check if there is one present. It detects when then VIA driver is present so I'm pretty sure that I've gotten any/all of them installed properly. Just not sure what else it left to try. Probably end up buying another Geforce 2 card of some type and use it instead. Save the Radeons for another machine.

Small update, I was able to locate a SMARTGART test utility that shows AGP on all three Radeon cards to be operating in AGP 1x mode. Probably for compatibility sake by the driver. I'm happy with AGP 1x as it shouldn't make any relevant difference on this machine.
One strange thing is that dxdiag shows AGP acceleration as unavailable on "primary" display, but on "secondary" it shows as enabled.
Does this on both DX7 and DX8 8.1 etc. I've never experienced this before.

In case anyone cares.......I ended up scoring another identical Dell OEM Geforce 2 GTS card. The card kind of worked just installing in the PC but would crash randomly and sometimes boot to a black screen for some reason. Ended up deleting the Windows directory and reinstalling Windows for the third time and now the card works perfectly. Installed VIA 4n1 4.43 pack. Installed the VIA memory interleave patch and VXD drivers for my ESS sound card. Installed the 7.76 driver pack and ran some benchmarks.
Best I was able to get was 4128 in 3DMark 2000, but that's a record for this build and I'm happy with it.

3DM01 run year 2021.

Of course, RyZen is now also attack under Win98. He became the star. 😀

DarthSun wrote on 2025-02-21, 22:12:

Of course, RyZen is now also attack under Win98. He became the star. 😀

But this is a thread specifically about the K6 line of CPUs so that is not valid... Plus, you can get higher scores in 3DMark 2001 with recent hardware.

cyclone3d wrote on 2025-02-21, 22:21:

DarthSun wrote on 2025-02-21, 22:12:

Of course, RyZen is now also attack under Win98. He became the star. 😀

But this is a thread specifically about the K6 line of CPUs so that is not valid... Plus, you can get higher scores in 3DMark 2001 with recent hardware.

Of course, it's not valid.
With the latest hardware yes, but achieve such a result under Win98. Under XP it's easy, there's a driver for the GTX980Ti too.
The Win98 competition is a separate category on a modern machine, obviously it's invalid here, I just threw in how much can be achieved.

DarthSun wrote on 2025-02-21, 21:37:

3DM01 run year 2021. […]
Show full quote

3DM01 run year 2021.

That is a good result for 2001, especially with the CPU running at only 616MHz!

Skalabala wrote on 2025-02-22, 07:48:

DarthSun wrote on 2025-02-21, 21:37:

3DM01 run year 2021. […]
Show full quote

3DM01 run year 2021.

That is a good result for 2001, especially with the CPU running at only 616MHz!

I'll have to test it again, with a bigger cooler. A colleague of mine achieved a slightly better result. The forum competition in Hungary has no time limit.