VOGONS


Reply 20 of 32, by Horun

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Linoleum wrote on 2024-12-24, 04:32:

Keep ideas coming and I’ll report back in few days (after Xmas).

Merry Christmas ! If I can think of anything else to try that is easy (not likely 😀 ) will post it.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 21 of 32, by Babasha

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Linoleum wrote on 2024-12-24, 03:04:

Why are MSDOS 6 and Win95 killing my primary slave port!?!

I told u - its a glitchy/uncommon/cheap realization of IDE(ATAPI) protocol in your chipset or BIOS but u sure everything are OK... 😉

Need help? Begin with photo and model of your hardware 😉

Reply 22 of 32, by Linoleum

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Babasha wrote on 2024-12-24, 06:43:
Linoleum wrote on 2024-12-24, 03:04:

Why are MSDOS 6 and Win95 killing my primary slave port!?!

I told u - its a glitchy/uncommon/cheap realization of IDE(ATAPI) protocol in your chipset or BIOS but u sure everything are OK... 😉

Yeah… now that I ruled out mscdex, himem, emm386 and the drivers themselves it’s possible…

Athlon64 3200+, HD3650, SB Audigy 2ZS
P4 1.8Ghz, V3, SBLive
P3 866Mhz, Riva TNT2, SB Audigy
P2 266Mhz, RageIIc, V2, SBLive
P233 MMX, Mystique 220, SB 32
P100, S3 Virge GX, AWE64, WavetablePi & PicoGus
Prolinea 4/50, ET4000, SB 16, WavetablePi

Reply 23 of 32, by Linoleum

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Food for thought: would it have to do with IO.sys? Each OS has its own version of IO.sys and that its job to manage peripherals...

Athlon64 3200+, HD3650, SB Audigy 2ZS
P4 1.8Ghz, V3, SBLive
P3 866Mhz, Riva TNT2, SB Audigy
P2 266Mhz, RageIIc, V2, SBLive
P233 MMX, Mystique 220, SB 32
P100, S3 Virge GX, AWE64, WavetablePi & PicoGus
Prolinea 4/50, ET4000, SB 16, WavetablePi

Reply 24 of 32, by weedeewee

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What computer are you actually using? Is it a compaq? which one, please give all specs.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 25 of 32, by Linoleum

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weedeewee wrote on 2024-12-24, 14:18:

What computer are you actually using? Is it a compaq? which one, please give all specs.

Like I said in the intro, it’s a Compaq Prolinea 2/50. The pizza box kind of Compaq… I understand the rest of the info is spread in the multiple replies, so I’ll sum it up here:

IDE 0: ide to cf adapter 4GB cards (no other ide channel) + Mitsumi FX600S
FDC: 1.44mb
ISA: SB16 CT2940
CPU: dx2 50

Athlon64 3200+, HD3650, SB Audigy 2ZS
P4 1.8Ghz, V3, SBLive
P3 866Mhz, Riva TNT2, SB Audigy
P2 266Mhz, RageIIc, V2, SBLive
P233 MMX, Mystique 220, SB 32
P100, S3 Virge GX, AWE64, WavetablePi & PicoGus
Prolinea 4/50, ET4000, SB 16, WavetablePi

Reply 26 of 32, by weedeewee

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Linoleum wrote on 2024-12-24, 15:39:
Like I said in the intro, it’s a Compaq Prolinea 2/50. The pizza box kind of Compaq… I understand the rest of the info is spread […]
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weedeewee wrote on 2024-12-24, 14:18:

What computer are you actually using? Is it a compaq? which one, please give all specs.

Like I said in the intro, it’s a Compaq Prolinea 2/50. The pizza box kind of Compaq… I understand the rest of the info is spread in the multiple replies, so I’ll sum it up here:

IDE 0: ide to cf adapter 4GB cards (no other ide channel) + Mitsumi FX600S
FDC: 1.44mb
ISA: SB16 CT2940
CPU: dx2 50

Thanks. Oh in your first post you mention a 4/50, though i see in your other post you mention a 2/50. anyway.
So with the compaq dos it's working, but with the standard microsoft dos it isn't.
Interesting. It somehow feels familiar.

I might be misremembering, but have you checked if you can get the cdrom working in windows when you do not load any cdrom drivers in dos. long shot I know.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 27 of 32, by Linoleum

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weedeewee wrote on 2024-12-24, 16:13:
Thanks. Oh in your first post you mention a 4/50, though i see in your other post you mention a 2/50. anyway. So with the compaq […]
Show full quote
Linoleum wrote on 2024-12-24, 15:39:
Like I said in the intro, it’s a Compaq Prolinea 2/50. The pizza box kind of Compaq… I understand the rest of the info is spread […]
Show full quote
weedeewee wrote on 2024-12-24, 14:18:

What computer are you actually using? Is it a compaq? which one, please give all specs.

Like I said in the intro, it’s a Compaq Prolinea 2/50. The pizza box kind of Compaq… I understand the rest of the info is spread in the multiple replies, so I’ll sum it up here:

IDE 0: ide to cf adapter 4GB cards (no other ide channel) + Mitsumi FX600S
FDC: 1.44mb
ISA: SB16 CT2940
CPU: dx2 50

Thanks. Oh in your first post you mention a 4/50, though i see in your other post you mention a 2/50. anyway.
So with the compaq dos it's working, but with the standard microsoft dos it isn't.
Interesting. It somehow feels familiar.

I might be misremembering, but have you checked if you can get the cdrom working in windows when you do not load any cdrom drivers in dos. long shot I know.

My bad! It’s indeed a 4/50…

Yeah! I gave that a shot and didn’t work… Don’t quote me on this, but it might be a Win98 feature.

Athlon64 3200+, HD3650, SB Audigy 2ZS
P4 1.8Ghz, V3, SBLive
P3 866Mhz, Riva TNT2, SB Audigy
P2 266Mhz, RageIIc, V2, SBLive
P233 MMX, Mystique 220, SB 32
P100, S3 Virge GX, AWE64, WavetablePi & PicoGus
Prolinea 4/50, ET4000, SB 16, WavetablePi

Reply 28 of 32, by Linoleum

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I found the source of the problem!!! I still don't understand why, though. It turns out it's one of the CF cards!

After finding some time to play with the MS-DOS 5.0 and MS-DOS 6.0 floppy boot disks, I found that they both worked correctly and loaded the MTMCDAI driver flawlessly. So, it's not an OS problem.

I realize I had my first 4GB CF with Compaq DOS 5.0 as the master disk... When swapping in for my other 4GB CF that I used to set up MS-DOS 6.0 and/or Win95, the driver would not load! They are both 4GB and physically identical (same generic blue stickers)... BUT, one has slightly more space (aka sectors) than the other.

I made 10000% sure the "faulty" one was empty by deleting all partitions and even tried "size adjustment" option of SdFormater... Couldn't load MTMCDAI. I Tried cloning the "good one" onto the "not so good one", still couldn't load MTMCDAI!!
I can't believe that just a slight difference is size totally breaks ATAPI/IDE of the slave drive.

Athlon64 3200+, HD3650, SB Audigy 2ZS
P4 1.8Ghz, V3, SBLive
P3 866Mhz, Riva TNT2, SB Audigy
P2 266Mhz, RageIIc, V2, SBLive
P233 MMX, Mystique 220, SB 32
P100, S3 Virge GX, AWE64, WavetablePi & PicoGus
Prolinea 4/50, ET4000, SB 16, WavetablePi

Reply 29 of 32, by weedeewee

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Good you found your problem.
There's plenty of threads that talk about incompatibilities with regards to the use of CF cards on the IDE bus.
Now there's one more.

Might I suggest you edit the title of this post and add [solved] to it.

Have fun.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 30 of 32, by Babasha

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Linoleum wrote on 2024-12-24, 19:40:
I found the source of the problem!!! I still don't understand why, though. It turns out it's one of the CF cards! […]
Show full quote

I found the source of the problem!!! I still don't understand why, though. It turns out it's one of the CF cards!

After finding some time to play with the MS-DOS 5.0 and MS-DOS 6.0 floppy boot disks, I found that they both worked correctly and loaded the MTMCDAI driver flawlessly. So, it's not an OS problem.

I realize I had my first 4GB CF with Compaq DOS 5.0 as the master disk... When swapping in for my other 4GB CF that I used to set up MS-DOS 6.0 and/or Win95, the driver would not load! They are both 4GB and physically identical (same generic blue stickers)... BUT, one has slightly more space (aka sectors) than the other.

I made 10000% sure the "faulty" one was empty by deleting all partitions and even tried "size adjustment" option of SdFormater... Couldn't load MTMCDAI. I Tried cloning the "good one" onto the "not so good one", still couldn't load MTMCDAI!!
I can't believe that just a slight difference is size totally breaks ATAPI/IDE of the slave drive.

Nice! I never use drives large of 528mb on 386/early 486 systems so no such experience (its better to say long ago i get really bad experience and dont try it now). 😀

Need help? Begin with photo and model of your hardware 😉

Reply 31 of 32, by rasz_pl

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Linoleum wrote on 2024-12-24, 19:40:

I can't believe that just a slight difference is size totally breaks ATAPI/IDE of the slave drive.

Its not just difference in total size, size difference suggests different guts = different firmware and defaults. CFs werent really tested for Master/Slave compatibility all that thoroughly.

https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module for AT&T Globalyst
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 memory board
https://github.com/raszpl/440BX Reference Design adapted to Kicad
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Reply 32 of 32, by Linoleum

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rasz_pl wrote on 2024-12-25, 06:21:
Linoleum wrote on 2024-12-24, 19:40:

I can't believe that just a slight difference is size totally breaks ATAPI/IDE of the slave drive.

Its not just difference in total size, size difference suggests different guts = different firmware and defaults. CFs werent really tested for Master/Slave compatibility all that thoroughly.

Makes sense. I tested another 2gb card and this one didn’t work as well… So not size related indeed.

I ordered a few 4GB from different brands to see if there is a pattern…

Athlon64 3200+, HD3650, SB Audigy 2ZS
P4 1.8Ghz, V3, SBLive
P3 866Mhz, Riva TNT2, SB Audigy
P2 266Mhz, RageIIc, V2, SBLive
P233 MMX, Mystique 220, SB 32
P100, S3 Virge GX, AWE64, WavetablePi & PicoGus
Prolinea 4/50, ET4000, SB 16, WavetablePi