VOGONS


First post, by songoffall

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So apparently Creative cards using the 93C46 EEPROM have a bug that causes the EEPROM chip to blank itself. I have observed it on a Creative Audigy 2 card, and can only theorize why it happens.

Looking at the documentation for ATMEL 93C46, the chip has self-timed write functionality, so once it gets a write command, it runs an erase cycle. Maybe the card by mistake sends something to the chip that is interpreted as a write command.

Here's the documentation I'm referencing:

https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/doc5140.pdf

In my case, the card is mostly functional, and while the setup program claims no Creative card has been discovered on the system, the driver installer successfully installs the VXD drivers.

I may have also discovered the solution, on a Russian website with an unsecured connection. Proceed at your own risk.

https://www.sblive.narod.ru/BAD_MEM_RETURNS/B … MEM_RETURNS.htm

I'm planning to translate the text on the Russian site, full credit goes to its authors, archive the ROM files on the page, in case it goes down, and I wonder if I could attempt the repairs described there.

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 1 of 18, by songoffall

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The following is a translation of the text from the source:
https://www.sblive.narod.ru/BAD_MEM_RETURNS/B … MEM_RETURNS.htm

For unknown reasons, the contents of the EEPROM (which contains device information) of Audigy sound cards gets corrupted. Usually the issue gets discovered when replacing the drivers or replacing the card. The main symptoms arising during this - the absence of AC3 Decode option in the mixer and the unwillingness of drivers to discover the card, when installing them from scratch.

If your card has been showing these symptoms, the only solution is restoring the contents of the EEPROM. But first we need to make sure the symptoms are caused by a failure of the EEPROM itself. For that we will need the program WPCREDIT - PCI Configuration Registers Editor by H.Oda (http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA002374/src/download.html) .

NOTE: The link provided in the source seems to be dead. However, TechPowerUp seems to host a version of WPCREDIT:
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/wpcredit/

After launching the program select the option Device from the Edit menu, and you'll see a list of devices discovered on your system. Select the device "Audio Controller":

SelectDevice.gif
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Next we select the option Structure View from the View menu:

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The "Subsystem ID" line (marked green) may be different (see the table below). For SB0090 cards the number may be 0051 or 0053 (more on that later).

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If the Subsystem ID line has nothing in common with the table above, either the contents of the EEPROM or the chip itself are damaged.

Usually cards with corrupted EEPROM show the number 0040 in Subsystem ID; the same number appears if you try to install a card with a desoldered EEPROM chip:

AudigySV0040.gif
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In my case, the Subsystem ID value was 00FF:

AudigySV00FF.gif
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(to be continued)

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 2 of 18, by songoffall

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(continuation)

The contents of the EEPROM looked like this:

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Now, if you've discovered that the problem is the EEPROM, it is time to break out the old soldering iron. First we need to find the EEPROM chip on the PCB. Usually, among other letters and numbers, it is marked as 93C46. The chip itself is in the lower right corner of the PCB:

AudigyEEPROMPlace.jpg
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AudigyEEPROM.jpg
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If you have difficulties desoldering chips like this, I suggest you cut off its legs with a scalpel and throw it away. The contacts are easily desoldered one by one. The following procedure can be performed with a new EEPROM chip.

Instead of 93C46, I recommend that you get the 93LC46 chip, which is pin compatible but has better characteristics. The type of chip package used on AUDIGY cards is called SOIC.

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IMPORTANT - seems like AUDIGY cards do not work with chips that have 128 x 8 bit access organization (e.g. MICROCHIP 93LC46A), use chips with 64 x 16 bit access organization (e.g. MICROCHIP 93LC46B). Find the relevant information on the manufacturer website.

(to be continued)

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 3 of 18, by songoffall

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(continuation)

You can write the EEPROM chip without a special chip programmer, you can use the LPT port instead and use the EEPROM programmer by Galim Mozhakov and one of the ROMs for Audigy.

The EEPROM programmer:

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Here's how the EEPROM is connected to the LPT port:

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I recommend that you launch the EEPROM programmer from pure DOS and set the LPT port mode to NORMAL (SPP).

The command line must look like this:

EEPROM.EXE [SWITCH] [ROM FILE]

E.g.:

EEPROM.EXE W SB0090.BIN

This will write the SB0090.BIN file to the connected EEPROM chip.

To verify the recorded rom you can run the following command:

EEPROM.EXE R TEST.BIN

The program will write the EEPROM contents to a file named TEST.BIN, which should be the same as the ROM file you recorded to the EEPROM chip.

Now we need to solder the chip back on the PCB.

(to be continued)

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 4 of 18, by songoffall

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ROM files, part 1

SB0090.BIN original version, for SB0090 cards with metallic jacks.

SB0090.jpg
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SB0090R.BIN modified from SB0092.BIN, for SB0090 cards with metallic jacks. Not different in principle from the previous file.

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SB0092.BIN original version, for SB0090 cards with plastic jacks.

SB0092.jpg
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(to be continued)

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 5 of 18, by songoffall

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ROM files, part 2

SB0162.BIN for SB0162 cards without SB1394 interface (created by modifying SB0092 ROM).

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(to be continued)

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Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 6 of 18, by songoffall

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ROM files, part 3

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO WRITE THESE ROM FILES TO AUDIGY1 CARDS!!!

SB0240.BIN originel ROM file for Audigy2 SB0240 cards.

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SB024X.BIN original ROM file (Subsystem ID - 1007) for Audigy2 OEM cards with plastic jacks, sent by Vadim Golovan.

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(END OF TRANSLATION)

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 7 of 18, by songoffall

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I'll add some of my own notes to this.

EEPROM corruption has been the bane of Creative cards and has been observed at least on Creative AWE, Live!, Audigy, Audigy2.

I would ask that people with working cards use the software provided here, the EEPROM programmer, to dump the ROMs for as many models as possible (EEPROM.EXE R DUMP.BIN).

I would also expect some tech priest out there to be able to build a less invasive LPT to 93C46 adapters, which would allow to program the EEPROM without desoldering it from the board.

I also wonder if socketing the EEPROMs would help restoring these cards easier.

What are your thoughts on this?

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 8 of 18, by Tiido

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There's no avoiding desoldering the chip. These pins are actively driven and you cannot override them externally without causing discomfort (or outright harm) to everyone involved. I think the chipset is actually 3.3V based too and running 5V into any of the pins from LPT etc. guarantees the IO driver will die.

But since they're small SOP parts, it is very easy to desolder them, at least with the "knife" tip which can cover one row fully, making extraction just matter of seconds of effort. I don't think there are any sockets that fit the original footprint that you can hand solder however.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 9 of 18, by songoffall

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Tiido wrote on 2025-01-11, 10:37:

There's no avoiding desoldering the chip. These pins are actively driven and you cannot override them externally without causing discomfort (or outright harm) to everyone involved. I think the chipset is actually 3.3V based too and running 5V into any of the pins from LPT etc. guarantees the IO driver will die.

But since they're small SOP parts, it is very easy to desolder them, at least with the "knife" tip which can cover one row fully, making extraction just matter of seconds of effort. I don't think there are any sockets that fit the original footprint that you can hand solder however.

Well, that's a bummer. I wonder how the heat gun + kapton tape method would work.

Still, any solution is better than nothing.

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 10 of 18, by jmarsh

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93C46 serial EEPROMs are 5v tolerant / safe to program with a parallel port (assuming VCC is connected to 5V).
Ideally, if it's only intended to function as a ROM, you could replace it with an equivalent chip that has a dedicated WP pin to prevent against accidental erasure.

Reply 11 of 18, by songoffall

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jmarsh wrote on 2025-01-11, 11:54:

93C46 serial EEPROMs are 5v tolerant / safe to program with a parallel port (assuming VCC is connected to 5V).
Ideally, if it's only intended to function as a ROM, you could replace it with an equivalent chip that has a dedicated WP pin to prevent against accidental erasure.

Yup, that's right. 2.5-5.5V range. Same goes for 93LC46:

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As for an equivalent chip with dedicated WP pin, 24LC 16B seems to fit the bill:

https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/aemDocume … t-20006054B.pdf

But will need to investigate further.

Pin 7 on 93C46/93LC46 is NC (not connected):

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The same pin on 24LC16B is WP (write protect):

Screenshot 2025-01-11 at 16.23.28.png
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I don't know how that pin is handled on Audigy2, but connecting it to Vcc should inhibit all write operations. The Vcc range for 24LC16B is 2.5-5.5v. Connecting WP to ground should enable write operations (for EEPROM programming).

I think we may have found a permanent solution. Thanks, friend.

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 12 of 18, by jmarsh

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24LC16B is an I2C EEPROM, not SPI.
On closer examination it looks like 93C46 has a pretty non-standard footprint, the only likely substitute is a 59C11 (59C11 has a RDY/BSY# output pin) and they're functionally equivalent... both of them are commonly used in cars for security codes and odometer readings.

Reply 13 of 18, by Tiido

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jmarsh wrote on 2025-01-11, 11:54:

93C46 serial EEPROMs are 5v tolerant / safe to program with a parallel port (assuming VCC is connected to 5V).
Ideally, if it's only intended to function as a ROM, you could replace it with an equivalent chip that has a dedicated WP pin to prevent against accidental erasure.

I didn't talk about the EEPROM but what it connects to, in context of "in-system programming" as suggested by a preceding post. Out of circuit you can do whatever with the EEPROM but still on the board, attached to a Creative chip on PCI, absolutely not (and still not on 5V ISA parts).

The EEPROM is a µwire standard thing, which is like SPI but precedes it. From what I know, SPI is modeled after µwire. In any case it is a standard EEPROM type and any programmer device can work with it, and numberous low-cost homebrew methods such as LPT connected things and even Arduino over USB type things.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 14 of 18, by myne

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It's an Soic8. At face value I don't see why a standard ch341a clip wouldn't work

(ie no need to desolder)

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I built:
Convert old ASUS ASC boardviews to KICAD PCB!
Re: A comprehensive guide to install and play MechWarrior 2 on new versions on Windows.
Dos+Windows 3.11 auto-install iso template (for vmware)
Script to backup Win9x\ME drivers from a working install
Re: The thing no one asked for: KICAD 440bx reference schematic

Reply 15 of 18, by jmarsh

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myne wrote on 2025-01-11, 17:36:

It's an Soic8. At face value I don't see why a standard ch341a clip wouldn't work

(ie no need to desolder)

Just because it's the same pin layout, doesn't mean the pin functions match (they don't). You would need a custom intermediate board between the programmer and the clip to remap them.

Reply 17 of 18, by myne

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If we're contemplating jamming things into printer ports, I don't see why 8 paperclips from the clip's plug wouldn't work.

insulated ideally.

I built:
Convert old ASUS ASC boardviews to KICAD PCB!
Re: A comprehensive guide to install and play MechWarrior 2 on new versions on Windows.
Dos+Windows 3.11 auto-install iso template (for vmware)
Script to backup Win9x\ME drivers from a working install
Re: The thing no one asked for: KICAD 440bx reference schematic

Reply 18 of 18, by songoffall

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I'll do some investigating and try things out on my own card, and document the process here. I also sent an email to Necroware, Scorp on Vogons, in case he wants to make a video about it.

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi