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A RetroPC is giving me a headache

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First post, by _StIwY_

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Hello everyone, i never encountered such a strange issue, and it's giving to me an headache, because I can't figure out what the problem is

Everything looks fine...i fresh format Win98 SE ( original version, untouched ISO)...

The setup runs fine.....but not always...except sometimes the PC reboots itself at the same spot ( sometimes yes, sometimes not ), in the second forced reboot ( when Win98 setup searchedsfor PnP periphericals and hardware ).

If it happens, then the second time the setup, in his second attempt to install, will continue without crashing anymore ( keep in mind that this does not happen with every formatting attempt )

So now, i am in the Win98 desktop, i have to install drivers..right? Well, first step is motherboard drivers, so i install Via 4in1 drivers...and everything else.
PC runs fine...but sometimes crashes right before completing the boot, something happens...randomly could happen that after a reboot Windows 98 SE freezes in the desktop, with the only mouse cursor ( icons and other things are not loaded ), so i am forced to shut off the PC...and from now onwards, the PC will stay like this. So maybe the registry gets corrupted ? I don't know

For example, in my last format attempt, i was finally able to install almost everything....every driver was installed and some software / games......i was installing Daemon Tools, which asks for a reboot.....well, after the reboot i got the "freezed desktop with the mouse icon only" and the boot got interrupted. And again since then...the PC didn't wat to boot normally anymore....same freeze problem

Sometimes with a BDOS which was saying "An exception occured at 0E.......etc etc"

Only in safe mode it returns to work....but when i pick the normal boot.....same freeze right before loading desktop icons ( or BSOD could happen too ).

It happens randomly.....what the hell could this be, since if each component, tested individually, on another PC works perfectly?

This is what i tried:

- Disabled ACPI - Power managements....and everything is useless....such as parallel - serial ports, integrated audio....etc...nothing changed.
- Already pulled off the cmos battery for minutes to be sure BIOS is reset ( nothing changed )
- PSU works as intended ( i tried another one but nothing changes )
- CPU is working fine and never crashes under stress tests
- RAM under stress...no errors ( i even tried various sticks, no luck )
- Sound card is fine ( tried another one, again no luck )
- HDD is healty and have no bad sectors ( HDDAT didn't show nothing )
- Run 3Dmark2000 on infinite loop for 1 hour.....no crashes or artifacts on screen

...i give up!. Based on your experiences, do you have any idea ? Thanks

Last edited by _StIwY_ on 2025-01-16, 18:46. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 1 of 24, by H3nrik V!

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Is it a 133 FSB CPU? Maybe FSB/PCI dividers are not set correct (may have been set to /3 at an earlier occasion)

If it's dual it's kind of cool ... 😎

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Please use the "quote" option if asking questions to what I write - it will really up the chances of me noticing 😀

Reply 2 of 24, by Joseph_Joestar

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A 150W PSU seems a bit on the weak side for a 1GHz system. Try something in the 250-300W range.

Also, if you haven't done it already, boot from a floppy and run Memtest for 24 hours straight. Some memory errors take longer to show up.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Core 2 Duo E8600 / Foxconn P35AX-S / X800 / Audigy2 ZS
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 980Ti / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 3 of 24, by leonardo

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The PSU might be a little anemic for your setup. I mean, I remember early Pentiums having sub-200W power supplies, but past Pentium II we were pretty solidly in the 230 - 300W range depending on the system.

Not sure if that would cause the system to reboot, ViA chipsets were also a bit of a hassle back in the day, albeit you would probably be in the clear by now with all the latest BIOS updates and 4in1 being available from the get-go.

...and yes, your individual parts may be fine, but that doesn't mean they'll work together.

[Install Win95 like you were born in 1985!] on systems like this or this.

Reply 4 of 24, by dionb

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To rule out whether Win9x / Via 4-in-1 are causing this or hardware (memory/PSU), grab an old copy of Knoppix (v4 or 5) and boot from that. If it's software, Knoppix should be rock-solid. If it's hardware it will be at least as bad. Knoppix CDs come with memtest86, so you can have that covered too without messing around with floppies

Reply 5 of 24, by _StIwY_

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First of all, Thanks for the replies ^^

H3nrik V! wrote on 2025-01-13, 11:27:

Is it a 133 FSB CPU? Maybe FSB/PCI dividers are not set correct (may have been set to /3 at an earlier occasion)

Dividers / jumpers etc are correct

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-13, 11:33:

A 150W PSU seems a bit on the weak side for a 1GHz system. Try something in the 250-300W range.

Also, if you haven't done it already, boot from a floppy and run Memtest for 24 hours straight. Some memory errors take longer to show up.

Did already with a 500W one

leonardo wrote on 2025-01-13, 11:34:

The PSU might be a little anemic for your setup. I mean, I remember early Pentiums having sub-200W power supplies, but past Pentium II we were pretty solidly in the 230 - 300W range depending on the system.

Not sure if that would cause the system to reboot, ViA chipsets were also a bit of a hassle back in the day, albeit you would probably be in the clear by now with all the latest BIOS updates and 4in1 being available from the get-go.

...and yes, your individual parts may be fine, but that doesn't mean they'll work together.

Here we go, i just had another BSOD.........-__-"

Shoot a picture at the BSOD, just in case you can figure out what this can be. ( This time happened during Win98SE setup )

Reply 6 of 24, by _StIwY_

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dionb wrote on 2025-01-13, 11:45:

To rule out whether Win9x / Via 4-in-1 are causing this or hardware (memory/PSU), grab an old copy of Knoppix (v4 or 5) and boot from that. If it's software, Knoppix should be rock-solid. If it's hardware it will be at least as bad. Knoppix CDs come with memtest86, so you can have that covered too without messing around with floppies

Knoppix v5? All right, downloading right now. I usually use HBCD / FalconFour Boot CD, but i hope this will help me out

Reply 7 of 24, by AlaricD

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_StIwY_ wrote on 2025-01-13, 13:55:

Here we go, i just had another BSOD.........-__-"

Shoot a picture at the BSOD, just in case you can figure out what this can be. ( This time happened during Win98SE setup )

Deselect "Microsoft Backup" when installing. Those two files named are installed/used by Microsoft Backup.

Reply 8 of 24, by Yawnald

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"motherboard capacitors are like new" means they visually look fine?

Mr. Tualatin

Reply 10 of 24, by RetroPCCupboard

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Do you have a PCI video card you could try instead of the Voodoo?

Reply 11 of 24, by _StIwY_

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All right so....Knoppix V5 works perfectly fine ( i didn't find the memtest86+...not used to use Linux based OS ).

I also forgot to disable the Onboard Audio thropugh the Jumper ( but was already disabled in the BIOS ). Plus, this time i manually chosen the BUS 133/33. Anyway i doubt these things were a problem.

Anyway.....i managed to install everything, i've already did 5-6 times the reset and no more freezes and BSOD ( for now ), even with the 150W PSU.

So i'm going to leave the PC under memtest86 for at least 6 hours, and i'll let you know...still skeptical. Maybe it is some remote incompatibility within these components together

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-13, 15:16:

Do you have a PCI video card you could try instead of the Voodoo?

I already put another video card, but got the previous BSOD during Win98SE setup

Reply 12 of 24, by dionb

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_StIwY_ wrote on 2025-01-13, 15:17:

All right so....Knoppix V5 works perfectly fine ( i didn't find the memtest86+...not used to use Linux based OS ).

It's in the boot menu, default is 'boot Knoppix', one or two options below that is 'memtest86+'

Reply 13 of 24, by Intel486dx33

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Yup. It a software driver issue.
Rub MSD and Check IRQ settings
Could be the game port or sound card
Check all the IRQs of ports in bios
Also check your CPU settings
Memory timing settings
Use bios default settings
Remove battery and clear CMOS settings
Check you Memory sticks. And put in correct banks
Use a CF card and reader
I like this one it comes with a bracket to mount in front or rear of case.

Reply 14 of 24, by _StIwY_

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Hello again, after the overnight Memorytest86 gave no errors.....so the mystery continues.

Reply 15 of 24, by _StIwY_

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2025-01-13, 15:35:
Yup. It a software driver issue. Rub MSD and Check IRQ settings Could be the game port or sound card Check all the IRQs of ports […]
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Yup. It a software driver issue.
Rub MSD and Check IRQ settings
Could be the game port or sound card
Check all the IRQs of ports in bios
Also check your CPU settings
Memory timing settings
Use bios default settings
Remove battery and clear CMOS settings
Check you Memory sticks. And put in correct banks
Use a CF card and reader
I like this one it comes with a bracket to mount in front or rear of case.

I already did everything you mentioned, except using a CF card and checking for IRQ conflicts

Reply 16 of 24, by leonardo

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Soo... how exactly did you disable ACPI (from your first post)? Did you do it in BIOS or did you launch Windows installation with setup /p i ? ...or both?

Also, for some hardware, you have to reverse the Plug&Play compatible OS setting for the best outcome, and no - it's not reliably Enabled/Disabled. My favorite case so far is one where I have to start the setup with the setting on, then turn it off once in Windows to allow all the hardware to operate well.

My friend, what you are experiencing is what we all used to live thru in the 90's: It should work, but it does not, WHY DOES IT NOT WORK?! Ahhh.. the "good" old days. 😉

[Install Win95 like you were born in 1985!] on systems like this or this.

Reply 17 of 24, by _StIwY_

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leonardo wrote on 2025-01-14, 11:38:

Soo... how exactly did you disable ACPI (from your first post)? Did you do it in BIOS or did you launch Windows installation with setup /p i ? ...or both?

Also, for some hardware, you have to reverse the Plug&Play compatible OS setting for the best outcome, and no - it's not reliably Enabled/Disabled. My favorite case so far is one where I have to start the setup with the setting on, then turn it off once in Windows to allow all the hardware to operate well.

My friend, what you are experiencing is what we all used to live thru in the 90's: It should work, but it does not, WHY DOES IT NOT WORK?! Ahhh.. the "good" old days. 😉

Yes, i disabled them through the BIOS ( there are no jumpers or switches in the motherboard ).

Plug&Play compatible OS, afaik it's better to leave it Enabled on Win95 and onwards, right? But i'll try to disable it....in the meanwhile, i'll try to use the PC regularly and see what happens

Reply 18 of 24, by Nexxen

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Maybe you wrote it already. How do you install W98? Clean CD/DVD? Copy files to drive and launch setup.exe?
I had that issue with a not so compatible drivers for the chipset. Maybe slipstream the chipset drivers in the installation CD, folder.

PC#1 Pentium 233 MMX - 98SE
PC#2 PIII-1Ghz - 98SE/W2K

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Reply 19 of 24, by Intel486dx33

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Just boot off a DOS floppy into DOS
Let it run DOS benchmarks for a day or more.
And see if it crashes.
Or try another OS like WinNT
If it does NOT crash then its a Win98 issue
Where did you get your copy of Win98 ?
The Sound Blaster AWE64 will work with the Default AWE32 Drivers that come included in Win98 installation CD

Last edited by Intel486dx33 on 2025-01-15, 00:59. Edited 1 time in total.