retr0 wrote on 2025-01-30, 21:13:

Hello guys, […]
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Hello guys,

I’m new to this forum. Some days ago I got an old 286 board with battery corrosions.
I was able to repair the corroded traces, remove the charging circuit and install an CR2032 socket with battery.
My firs computer was an Pentium with Windows 98, so I don’t have much experience with older stuff.
But I want to run Windows 3.0 on my 286, just for fun. Playing solitaire 😉
I installed DOS 6.22, but Windows don’t want to start since XMS and HIMEM is missing (I guess not enough memory).
Is there a way to run Windows anyway somehow? Some tool that pretend XMS or swap it?

Thanks in advance
Nemo

Hi Nemo, for Windows 3.1 just add himem.sys in config.sys.

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
or
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
or
DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS

640KB+384KB Extended Memory (= 1024KB; no shadows memory used) are just enough to run bare Windows 3.1x.
It's not much memory, but some of the Windows accessories such as Minesweeper or Clock will run.

For Windows 3.0, do the same. Without himem.sys it will run in Real-Mode (can be forced by WIN /R).

Real-Mode Windows can't run many applications (they want Protected-Mode),
but with that small memory expansion it can't anyway.

Best wishes,
Jo22

PS: Many 286 mainboards can access up to 4MB of RAM via SIPP/SIMM sticks (RAM is installed in pairs of two).
Windows 3 will run okay if it has 2MB of Extended Memory to work with. Programs such as Excel will then be usable.

Edit: I've remembered some old threads for reading that might be related to this..

Windows 3.1 on a 386 with 640K RAM - Possible?
How to add more memory to a 286?

Is there any reason to install more than 1 MB RAM on a 286 PC?
Why does a 286 processor need 4MB of memory?

Are Windows 2.03 / Windows 3.0 useful?

Hi, did it work? 🙂

EdIt: Some 286 boards have the option to divide 1024 KB into 512 KB + 512 KB..
There should be an entry in CMOS Setup..

Jo22 wrote on 2025-01-30, 21:43:

Edit: I've remembered some old threads for reading that might be related to this..

Jo22, did you test any Win 3.x with EMS? Seeing this topic got me interested in installing Win 3 of some sort on 286 as well. I have two mobos, one is older 12MHz but I was able to find the correct chips to upgrade it to 4MB (this is the most it can handle). The mobo supports EMS via chipset so it can be put into either EMS or XMS mode - I was wodering which would be better for such old machine.
The other 286 is much newer with SIMM slots and Harris 20MHz CPU, no hardware EMS so it would be XMS only. Should I put 3.1 or 3.0 on it considering the faster CPU? Ideally I'd like to have at least one of these machines networked so 3.11 would be best but I can also arrange a SLIP/PPP connection over serial port or modem with Trumpet Winsock. Or IPX if that's the best I can get. So older version of Windows like 3.0 is OK too.

Deunan wrote on 2025-02-01, 13:04:

Jo22, did you test any Win 3.x with EMS?

Hi, yes, glad you're asking - I did take some videos. ^^

Windows 3.0 w/ EMS (on 286)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqFSWnMpVic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsFQD0eNg2w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsFQD0eNg2w

286 chipset EMS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSQCKlhmEq8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqFkS4o13fs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr9KrPNis-Q

Deunan wrote on 2025-02-01, 13:04:

Jo22, did you test any Win 3.x with EMS? Seeing this topic got me interested in installing Win 3 of some sort on 286 as well. I have two mobos, one is older 12MHz but I was able to find the correct chips to upgrade it to 4MB (this is the most it can handle). The mobo supports EMS via chipset so it can be put into either EMS or XMS mode - I was wodering which would be better for such old machine.
The other 286 is much newer with SIMM slots and Harris 20MHz CPU, no hardware EMS so it would be XMS only. Should I put 3.1 or 3.0 on it considering the faster CPU? Ideally I'd like to have at least one of these machines networked so 3.11 would be best but I can also arrange a SLIP/PPP connection over serial port or modem with Trumpet Winsock. Or IPX if that's the best I can get. So older version of Windows like 3.0 is OK too.

I would just go with Win 3.1 for both PCs - there are several games which explicitly require 3.1 that work on a 286 (I have currently documented 16 out of 157 games that explicitly say that they require a newer version of Windows on 3.0a when testing on Real Mode, plus I have another 338 undocumented games that work on a 286 from basic in-game testing), and I honestly cannot think of a benefit for using Win 3.0 outside of nostalgia, using it on a XT or for drivers that only exist for 3.0.

Though I have a feeling for the latter, most drivers would work fine if you create a Win 3.1-compatible OEMSETUP.INF as several drivers (Tseng and Trident drivers from late 1991/early 1992, most S3 911/924 drivers, some Cirrus Logic drivers from 1992 are examples I can think of) have both 3.0 and 3.1 INF files in the same package, but I haven't tested that yet.

EDIT 03/02/2025 - now that I've tested the currently documented list of games on Win 3.0a standard mode, the number of games that require Win3.1 has now gone up to 37 (plus another 3 shareware games that have later versions that require 3.1, like EmSoft's Block Breaker - I've yet to fully test games that expect MMSYSTEM.DLL so that could be up to another 13 games), and Windows Commander also requires Win3.1. Turns out more EXEs seem to check whether Windows is running in Standard Mode first before checking the minimum Windows version

Hm. I might install Win 3.0 just for the fun of it, then image the CF/HDD for later and move on to 3.1. I really haven't done anything Win3 related in a long time, I have a working 3.11 image but that was on 386 system to test the built-in TCP/IP networking over LAN.

So here's some follow-up questions:
1) I take it EMS can be used only with Real Mode? So I would be better off just going the usual XMS+HIMEM.SYS way then if I wanted protected mode?
2) Is it possible at all to have any web browsers working on 286? Because on 386 one can install Win32s extensions and that opens up more possibitiles. I don't really need a web browses on 286, even on the 386 box it barely works (most modern WWW is HTTPS and CSS-based), just asking.
3) The only VGA card that works properly in the older 286 is Trident 8900C, but I could also go with Hercules clone or CGA in mono mode. I do have CRT monitors for that. I kinda like the look of it on Jo's videos but then again most games and programs would probably require VGA? So I'm probably better off getting my nostalgia shot with Win 3.0 + Hercules and then moving to 3.1 with VGA if I want to run games, correct?

Asking because I simply have very little free time these days and I have to plan ahead, even taking the stuff of out the boxes to play with is starting to get time consuming. Too many boxes...

1) yes
2) I was only able to get NCSA Mosaic 1.0 to work on a 286, nothing else
3) I'd agree with that

Deunan wrote on 2025-02-02, 13:31:

3) The only VGA card that works properly in the older 286 is Trident 8900C, but I could also go with Hercules clone or CGA in mono mode. I do have CRT monitors for that. I kinda like the look of it on Jo's videos but then again most games and programs would probably require VGA? So I'm probably better off getting my nostalgia shot with Win 3.0 + Hercules and then moving to 3.1 with VGA if I want to run games, correct?

Well, with that Trident, you don't even need a real Hercules - you can simply add "svm89 hercules" to AUTOEXEC.BAT 🤣

Thanks for all the info. I just remembered that I have another 286 machine but it's in storage at a different location. 12MHz with old dumb mobo that doesn't accept user-defined HDDs so it has ST-251 MFM in it. I pulled full length Hecrules clone from it but I now have other cards (like ATI Graphics Solution) so I can return that clone and maybe install Win 3.0 there. That machine has only 1M of RAM in DIPs though and it doesn't look like it can accept more - so I put DOS 3.31 there and HIMEM from Win3.x to use the XMS for SmartDrv.

What does "svm89 hercules" do exactly? Is the Trident capable of emulating Hercules on HW level on VGA monitor?

Deunan wrote on 2025-02-03, 11:11:

What does "svm89 hercules" do exactly? Is the Trident capable of emulating Hercules on HW level on VGA monitor?

It switches the card into Hercules emulation mode.
And yes, it works with normal VGA monitors.