VOGONS


First post, by noshutdown

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i am going to test a few isa video cards on a 386, and with windows95, including:
tseng et3000
trident 8800
paradise pvga1/wd90c00
chips82c450
realtek3105
umc85c408
they all have 512kb of ram or more and i am expecting 256colors at least, the umc408 is a slow 1mb card like trident8900c but with hicolor ramdac.
i wasn't concerned about drivers initially because windows95/98 had a lot of them built in, and these popular cards were supposed to be included. but when i checked it out, realtek and umc were not in the vendor list, tseng has et4000 in the list but not et3000, and others only listed vague names like "trident super vga" or so rather than specific models, with no idea whether they would work or not.
is there any ways to get them working with 256colors? do i need to install univbe6.x and see if it has extra drivers, or is it possible to get win3.1 drivers working in win95?

Last edited by noshutdown on 2025-02-17, 01:50. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 7, by leonardo

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The ones that aren't automatically detected and configured could probably be made to work by choosing the generic Super VGA-driver during setup. That should allow for 256 colors and resolutions up to 800x600 at least.

[Install Win95 like you were born in 1985!] on systems like this or this.

Reply 3 of 7, by noshutdown

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i found the vbe9x universal svga driver for windows9x, but it demands the card to be compatible with vbe specification, and those early svga cards are surely not.
has anyone tried vbe9x, and see if it works with univbe or other vbe tsr loaded in autoexec.bat?
also, what's the first vbe-compatible isa video card from each vendor? for example, i think all cirrus542x series are vbe-compatible but the avga1/avga2 bought from acumos are not.

Reply 4 of 7, by Jo22

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Win95/NT: Windows 95 Hardware Compatibility List
https://archive.org/details/HCL95HLP_EXE

PS: To be opened with WinHelp32.
It might be that the list contains product names, rather than chipsets.
The Diamond SpeedSTAR VGA was a popular ET-4000AX based card, for example.
Ideally, the chipset is being mentioned in parentheses (), too.

PS/2:

but it demands the card to be compatible with vbe specification, and those early svga cards are surely not.

Sigh. Unfortunately, not. These are ISA VGAs. If they had VESA VBE in ROM, then it was VBE 1.x only (Real-Mode only).

Back then, people had to load TSR drivers, in order to add VBE support in DOS.
Some are here: Re: OAK OTI-037c - 800x600 mode ?

The other alternative was to use UniVESA and UniVBE.
CD-ROM games often shipped with the latter. Compatibility might be worse than with the official VBE drivers, though.
Here's my story: UNIVBE 4.0 and old hardware

VBE9x is slow and meant for modest VBE 3 cards made in the 2000s. GeForce FX etc.
It doesn't provide VBE, it uses it. But VBE has drawbacks.
Early "Windows Accelerators" like WD90C31 (ISA) and even simple VGA cards (frame buffers) had features like a hardware-mouse cursor. VBE has none (VBE/AF never made it).

If your copy of Windows 95 is the original version (RTM), then DirectX 3 can be installed.
The DirectX 3 Runtime shipped with a bunch of new, updated, Direct Draw/Direct 3D capable drivers - maybe they're useful.
They were bundled with the runtime, because before that time Windows 95 never had 3D capable drivers to begin with.

Windows 3.1x drivers do also work in most cases, but they were using an older driver model.
Windows 3.1x had big parts of GDI in the graphics drivers, whereas Windows 95 started to use mini drivers.

Personally, I'd simply use the drivers that ship with Windows 9x.
They might be the most recent, even, maybe, if the hardware is very old and hadn't been maintained by its own manufacturer anymore.

Windows 98SE had been used as a testbed for old hardware for a reason, also.
It should contain drivers for most of the popular hardware produced before the year 2000.
Including legacy hardware, because 98SE has a big database of both VXD and WDM drivers.

Edited. Sorry, many edits - I haven't slept last night. 😴

Good luck! 🙂🤞

Edit:

tseng et3000 trident 8800 paradise pvga1/wd90c00 chips82c450 realtek3105 umc85c408 […]
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tseng et3000
trident 8800
paradise pvga1/wd90c00
chips82c450
realtek3105
umc85c408

Oh, these are all (?) first generation VGA graphics chips from the late 80s!
They were dated when Windows 3.1 came out, even.
The 256 colour "Super VGA" drivers in Windows for Workgroups 3.11 should know them.
Windows 95, too, but as "Trident Super VGA", "Paradise Super VGA" and so on.

Drivers:
Realtek 3105: https://vgamuseum.ru/gpu/realtek/realtek-rtg3105e/
Chips&Technologies 82C450 (P-VGA4): Re: STB VGA 640 with CHIPS F82C451 A
UMC 85C408 (GENOA 6400): http://ftp.oldskool.org/pub/drivers/UMC/UM85C408.ISA/

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Reply 5 of 7, by noshutdown

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Jo22 wrote on 2025-02-19, 08:46:
Oh, these are all (?) first generation VGA graphics chips from the late 80s! They were dated when Windows 3.1 came out, even. Th […]
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Oh, these are all (?) first generation VGA graphics chips from the late 80s!
They were dated when Windows 3.1 came out, even.
The 256 colour "Super VGA" drivers in Windows for Workgroups 3.11 should know them.
Windows 95, too, but as "Trident Super VGA", "Paradise Super VGA" and so on.

Drivers:
Realtek 3105: https://vgamuseum.ru/gpu/realtek/realtek-rtg3105e/
Chips&Technologies 82C450 (P-VGA4): Re: STB VGA 640 with CHIPS F82C451 A
UMC 85C408 (GENOA 6400): http://ftp.oldskool.org/pub/drivers/UMC/UM85C408.ISA/

thanks for the info man, now i just wanna find out if there are any workarounds when windows95 doesn't have built-in drivers for them(installing directx may add some extra though).
here's some ideas:
*does scitech display doctor provide any extra drivers?
*can that vbe9x work with vesa tsr loaded in autoexec.bat?
*do their windows3.1 drivers work in windows95?
performance isn't of major concern since these old cards do not remotely have any acceleration features after all.
and i am all about 512kb cards and want 256color modes from them(except that the um85c408 is a 1mb card with high color support), 256kb cards like oak037 and cirrus5320 obviously doesn't need any drivers.

Reply 6 of 7, by DEAT

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noshutdown wrote on 2025-02-19, 10:51:

*do their windows3.1 drivers work in windows95?

Yes, but you'll only have access to GDI and you won't be able to use any DirectX features. Due to how most Windows 3.1 drivers for video cards work, you'll need to reinstall the drivers each time you want to change resolution/colour depth as they're limited to whatever DRV file they're using.

performance isn't of major concern since these old cards do not remotely have any acceleration features after all.

I'm not convinced that acceleration matters with ISA cards, when it comes to DirectDraw. Even trying to justify GDI acceleration is a stretch.

Reply 7 of 7, by Grzyb

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Try SDD 6.53, or thereabouts.
It includes "universal" Windows 9x display driver, and still supports many early SVGA chips.

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