VOGONS


Reply 20 of 55, by byte_76

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Do we always need to be so technical? The topic is about the best graphics card for that period of hardware as mentioned in the first post. Aren't they all graphics cards that we're talking about?

How would you define that? Just simply VGA card, or video accelerator, or 3D accelerator? It doesn't matter to me, you likely understand what is being asked regradles of specific terminology.

Initially I referrred to the card as a 3D graphics card but I edited the post because it was pointed out that 3D gaming wasn't really a thing at that time., which is fine because softwre rendered gaming is part of the goal and installing a decent graphics card did make a difference to the gaming experience.

My view is that a card like the Tseng ET6000 fits the category that I'm referring to but it was'nt the only option.

Last edited by byte_76 on 2025-03-17, 11:16. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 21 of 55, by dionb

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byte_76 wrote on 2025-03-17, 10:30:

Do we always need to be so technical? The topic is about the best graphics card for that period of hardware as mentioned in the first post. Aren't they all graphics cards that we're talking about?

We don't need to be technical, but it helps to be clear.

A graphics card is a standalone card that outputs to the screen.

An accellerator is an add-on card that does something faster, but needs a separate graphics card to function.

Voodoo 1/2, PowerVR PCX and GLint (at least, on the 3D Blaster) are examples of chipsets for the latter. ET6000 and Ark1000 are examples of chipsets for the former.

Some graphics card/VGA chipsets combine 2D and 3D functionality, such as the nV1 and S3 Virge, but others such as the ET6000 don't.

So by listing VGA chipsets without 3D acceleration, VGA chipsets with 3D acceleration and standalone 3D accelerators you're asking for apples, pears and bananas. ET6000 and Voodoo 1, for example, have non-overlapping functionalities, it makes no sense to consider both for the same role.

Unless you're making a fruit salad, you should specify what you're looking for.

Reply 22 of 55, by Shponglefan

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dionb wrote on 2025-03-17, 10:39:

An accellerator is an add-on card that does something faster, but needs a separate graphics card to function.

Not necessarily. The term "accelerator" has been used in various contexts with respect to video cards.

Back in the early-to-mid 90s, video cards were often billed as graphics accelerators or Windows accelerators especially for local bus (VLB and PCI) cards. It was basically marketing speak to try to convey video card performance and was quite common to see in advertising.

3D graphics accelerators has been used to refer to either stand-alone 3D cards or combined 2D/3D cards. Cards with that included hardware video (MPEG) decoding were referred to as video accelerators.

Depending on the context terms like "graphics accelerator", "graphics card", "video card", and "video accelerator" can be used interchangeably.

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Reply 23 of 55, by byte_76

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Honestly, it doesn't matter. Fruit salad is allowed 😀 Happy to hear the perspective of everyone. Just keep it more or less period correct.

We've discussed various options and it's all quite interesting. (Eg. Maybe Voodoo 1 with a basic 2D card was the preffered choice. That's okay. The Voodoo 1 was released in 1995 and was likely an option people would have considered)

What would you choose any why?

Reply 24 of 55, by Shponglefan

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byte_76 wrote on 2025-03-17, 11:04:

The Voodoo 1 was released in 1995 and was likely an option people would have considered

The first Voodoo 1 cards were released in October 1996, not 1995.

What would you choose any why?

I've built a number of period correct systems from the mid-90s.

Cards I've used include the S3 Vision 964, S3 Trio64+, S3 Virge, Matrox Millennium and Matrox Mystique.

For a 1995-era computer (e.g. Am5x86 P75 or Pentium 100 - 133), I would use an S3 Trio64+ or Matrox Millennium. The Matrox Millennium would offer better performance video quality versus the S3, but the S3 Trio64+ would have better compatibility with older DOS games.

I wouldn't bother with the Rendition Verite or Voodoo cards. Rendition Verite cards had terrible DOS gaming performance. They're only really useful as a novelty to see what early 3D was like. And Voodoo cards really need more a powerful CPU to be effective.

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Reply 25 of 55, by CharlieFoxtrot

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Matth79 wrote on 2025-03-16, 16:49:

My Pentium had a CL GD5446 graphics card... that was only 2D + video acceleration

I have this in my Tulip 166MMX instead of the onboard AT24. 5446 and many other CL chips have excellent DOS compatibilty unlike the AT24 and many other Pentium era 2D PCI accerators. It is also a decent performer.

As far as the original post goes, I wouldn’t consider any proper 3D with 486, it just doesn’t have the performance and even competent cards such as Voodoo1 goes to waste. Of course something like Virge is a good choice, but that is due to good DOS compatibility and 2D performance as they practically has the 2D core from Trio64 cards.

Reply 26 of 55, by CharlieFoxtrot

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Shponglefan wrote on 2025-03-17, 11:31:
byte_76 wrote on 2025-03-17, 11:04:

The Voodoo 1 was released in 1995 and was likely an option people would have considered

The first Voodoo 1 cards were released in October 1996, not 1995.

This. I’d also add that the big success of V1 went well into 1997, although it was released late 1996. It was quite expensive card at launch with relatively little software available, so it took some time to gain momentum. I bought mine around summer 97 when it was quite clear that Voodoo is the way to go for 3D. I remember that I bought Extreme Assault when it was released and just after I got the card. EA was released in august in Europe, so I got the Voodoo in june or july. Good times…

Reply 27 of 55, by st31276a

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I would just stick any piece of S3 or Cirrus Logic pci card lying around in there.

Those were the cards used back in the day in those systems anyway.

3D acceleration is wasted on a late 486 / early pentium.

You just want the framebuffer memory on the fast pci bus. That was the goal.

Those cards have some nice gui acceleration features in hardware as well, that the drivers enable.

Reply 29 of 55, by Shponglefan

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CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2025-03-17, 12:10:

This. I’d also add that the big success of V1 went well into 1997, although it was released late 1996. It was quite expensive card at launch with relatively little software available, so it took some time to gain momentum.

Agreed. I remember GLQuake being a big reason to have a Voodoo back then, and GLQuake didn't come out until early 1997.

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Reply 30 of 55, by byte_76

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stef80 wrote on 2025-03-17, 12:37:

@byte_76
Did you check availability and prices? (You might be disappointed with Tseng / ARK2000 in that regard.)

Sure did…and yeah, the market is not in our favor.

I have an ET6000 on the way though. Managed to get it for N$46 total, inclusive of international shipping costs.

Reply 31 of 55, by Intel486dx33

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S3 PCI video cards were very popular among computer manufactures because of their good performance and support.

They work with

OS2
Win3x
Win95
Win98
WinME
Win2000
UNIX
Linux
Sun Solaris x86
Etc…

For DOS gaming they work pretty good.

S3 trio64 VX / DX 3D
2mb is good enough.

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Reply 32 of 55, by keenmaster486

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You asked for the best 3D performance. There's not really any distinction between 3D and 2D peformance if the card is not a 3D accelerator, like a Voodoo. With software rendering, both 2D and 3D are a matter of how many pixels you can push to the screen per frame, at least as far as the graphics card is concerned.

That is to say, with software rendering, you have two concerns: the *general* performance of your graphics card, and your CPU.

In which case if you're looking for the absolute fastest PCI graphics card that is era appropriate for late 486 and early Pentium, you're looking at something like a Trio64.

World's foremost 486 enjoyer.

Reply 33 of 55, by byte_76

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I have an S3 Virge DX PCI 4MB
I’ll compare it to the ET6000 and see if there’s a difference.

As you said, the S3 cards had good compatibility so it might actually be the best choice because it probably works properly with all games.

Reply 35 of 55, by leonardo

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No love for ATi Mach64 or RAGE / RAGE II ?

I think the og Rage is from 1996. A little late, since Pentium 133/166 MMX were already available, but as an upgrade to a 486 or an earlier Pentium system - why not?

[Install Win95 like you were born in 1985!] on systems like this or this.

Reply 36 of 55, by PC@LIVE

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leonardo wrote on 2025-03-17, 21:38:

No love for ATi Mach64 or RAGE / RAGE II ?

I think the og Rage is from 1996. A little late, since Pentium 133/166 MMX were already available, but as an upgrade to a 486 or an earlier Pentium system - why not?

On my Olidata Pentium PC, originally a 133, the Intel Advance Monaco LPX motherboard, has an integrated 1 MB ATi Mach64 video card, I think it can be expanded to 2 MB, I think that after upgrading to P166MMX (Overdrive), it's quite good, of course it won't be the best VGA, but it's okay, every now and then I run some games with it, as soon as I can I should try to run Phil's benches.

AMD 286-16 287-10 4MB HD 45MB VGA 256KB
AMD 386DX-40 Intel 387 8MB HD 81MB VGA 256KB
Cyrix 486DLC-40 IIT387-40 8MB VGA 512KB
AMD 5X86-133 16MB VGA VLB CL5428 2MB and many others
AMD K62+ 550 SOYO 5EMA+ and many others
AST Pentium Pro 200 MHz L2 256KB

Reply 37 of 55, by GemCookie

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byte_76 wrote on 2025-03-16, 16:36:

Which graphics card is “the graphics card” to have for a late 486 to early Pentium machine for the best 3D performance?

Specifically referring to PCI graphics cards.

A Voodoo2, Voodoo3 or GeForce2 MX would work best. Benchmark scores for these cards (and several others) on a 486 can be found in this thread.

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Reply 38 of 55, by fxgogo

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I remember having a Tseng ET 4000 in my 486 DX4 100 rig and I loved it. I was running a mixture of DOS, Win 3.1 and possibly Win 95. Later on, I had a Pentium Pro rig I bought from my work when they upgraded machines and it had a Matrox Millenium in it. It had an incredible display quality.

Reply 39 of 55, by chinny22

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leonardo wrote on 2025-03-17, 21:38:

No love for ATi Mach64 or RAGE / RAGE II ?

Nah, not really, sorry
Our first PC had an onboard VLB Mach64. I still have that PC and use it often, the cards fine so have nothing against it but will admit not as sexy as the other choices listed here.