First- a very cool idea. I see tons of barriers and personally I have no practical experience in hosting gaming LAN parties.

No Microsoft isn't going to allow any sort of cross-license agreement. Realistically I dont think Microsoft cares if you illegally use 30 copies of Win98, but unless the hardware you bought comes with a Win98 COA or search for new unused Win98 software being "legal" is going to be a big challenge.

I would guess one of the Tualatin's could act as the server - I would think something like a Counter-Strike isnt too demanding especially if your controlling stuff like custom skins ect. I think it would be a bad idea to connect the server to the internet at large, I'm not sure the server would successfully mask the IP addresses of all the clients and your Win98 machines would be very insecure online.

I think a more important use for a server would be to re-image each PC. IMO people in internet cafe's tend to like to mess with any setting that isnt locked down, I think you will be constantly - re-imaging the 30 computers. It would probably be best to automate the process.

Not to poopoo your idea unlike in Asia where it’s the norm for pc bang cafes, i can’t quite see the demand for win98 era cafe and get enough money out of it to fund your hobby.
I would say setup a few of your systems for yourself and a server or two as an online lobby for connected win98 enthusiasts with links to existing gaming servers others have established for win98 online multiplayer gaming.
You would be able to run this from a home office with less risk as a business.

BinaryDemon wrote on 2025-03-19, 16:42:

No Microsoft isn't going to allow any sort of cross-license agreement. Realistically I dont think Microsoft cares if you illegally use 30 copies of Win98, but unless the hardware you bought comes with a Win98 COA or search for new unused Win98 software being "legal" is going to be a big challenge.

Weren't Dell licenses a thing? I vaguely remember that Dell OEM versions and Dell computers used to be plenty.
Anyway, in my country it's okay to just have the certificate (COA for MS software). Or the original medium, respectively, if no certificate exists.
Or just the manual with serial number inside, it depends.
Windows 3.0/3.1 had no COA yet, but WfW 3.11 had. So it depends.

Greywolf1 wrote on 2025-03-19, 17:05:

Not to poopoo your idea unlike in Asia where it’s the norm for pc bang cafes, i can’t quite see the demand for win98 era cafe and get enough money out of it to fund your hobby.
I would say setup a few of your systems for yourself and a server or two as an online lobby for connected win98 enthusiasts with links to existing gaming servers others have established for win98 online multiplayer gaming.
You would be able to run this from a home office with less risk as a business.

Hm. Personally, I could imagine weirder things. 🙂
Such as this one: Man builds his own 80s VHS store in the cellar

Windows 98 is retro cool these days, I believe. To many, it's a memento of the 90s, a synonyme to the earlier Internet.
Of a time of HTML sites with GIF animations, web rings, online diaries, free web hosters and MMORGs.

While simultanously, to young people, it's something fascinating and "new" also.
It looks dated, timeworn, from a bygone era or civilization. Like the golems in Ghibli's Laputa.
But Windows 98 also feels strangely familiar same time.
Compared to Windows 95, it looks much more mature and complete also.

Windows 98 even is an art style now, there's Windows 98 core.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjMKwLkgS-k

Jo22 wrote on 2025-03-19, 17:55:

Weren't Dell licenses a thing? I vaguely remember that Dell OEM versions and Dell computers used to be plenty. Anyway, in my cou […]
Show full quote

Weren't Dell licenses a thing? I vaguely remember that Dell OEM versions and Dell computers used to be plenty.
Anyway, in my country it's okay to just have the certificate (COA for MS software). Or the original medium, respectively, if no certificate exists.
Or just the manual with serial number inside, it depends.
Windows 3.0/3.1 had no COA yet, but WfW 3.11 had. So it depends.

I thought Dell attached a COA to the case even when using volume licenses? There were some rare instances where Dell allowed people to downgrade, like Vista to XP but generally you were stuck with the COA on the case.

So if OPs Dell's have Win2K or XP COA, I dont think he can just say : Dell volume license in effect.

As keeping 30 client machines running happily is already going to consume a lot of time, I'd probably look to run your dedicated servers on a modern server with multiple VMs of older operating systems. More often than not, the dedicated server executable doesn't need 3D video (certainly was the case for the likes of Q3A), and a modern server CPU will have more than enough grunt for 10-20 dedicated servers for 90s-mid 2000s games.

BinaryDemon wrote on 2025-03-19, 18:48:

Jo22 wrote on 2025-03-19, 17:55:

Weren't Dell licenses a thing? I vaguely remember that Dell OEM versions and Dell computers used to be plenty. Anyway, in my cou […]
Show full quote

Weren't Dell licenses a thing? I vaguely remember that Dell OEM versions and Dell computers used to be plenty.
Anyway, in my country it's okay to just have the certificate (COA for MS software). Or the original medium, respectively, if no certificate exists.
Or just the manual with serial number inside, it depends.
Windows 3.0/3.1 had no COA yet, but WfW 3.11 had. So it depends.

I thought Dell attached a COA to the case even when using volume licenses? There were some rare instances where Dell allowed people to downgrade, like Vista to XP but generally you were stuck with the COA on the case.

So if OPs Dell's have Win2K or XP COA, I dont think he can just say : Dell volume license in effect.

I admit I know very little about this topic.
In my country it's not uncommon to remove the COA stickers from case and have them stored along with the CDs.
Our court has decided that the Microsoft EULA is violating national law and can be ignored (in some aspects).
There also is a legal market of OEM versions of Windows, or OEM software in general. The stuff that was meant to be sold with PCs can be sold/used independently.
So you can get Windows CD, COA sticker and some paper stuff in a plastic bag. In simple words.
The downside is lack of any support by the manufacturer.

Edited.

Edit: It gets even funnier, buyers here have/had the right to say "no, thanks" and give the OEM software back, while demanding for a refund.
As if the PC was bought without the extra software.
The courts decided for the buyers, because the buyers didn't ask for software in first place. It rather was forced onto them.
Sellers, Microsoft and friends weren't happy about this concept.
There were brave buyers who brought the OEM software back to the PC store and the sellers at the cash registers or counters were totally unprepared of this.

paradigital wrote on 2025-03-19, 19:11:

As keeping 30 client machines running happily is already going to consume a lot of time, I'd probably look to run your dedicated servers on a modern server with multiple VMs of older operating systems. More often than not, the dedicated server executable doesn't need 3D video (certainly was the case for the likes of Q3A), and a modern server CPU will have more than enough grunt for 10-20 dedicated servers for 90s-mid 2000s games.

I don't think you can get the same performance and response times with virtual machines on a server, I doubt it...

BinaryDemon wrote on 2025-03-19, 16:42:

First- a very cool idea. I see tons of barriers and personally I have no practical experience in hosting gaming LAN parties. […]
Show full quote

First- a very cool idea. I see tons of barriers and personally I have no practical experience in hosting gaming LAN parties.

No Microsoft isn't going to allow any sort of cross-license agreement. Realistically I dont think Microsoft cares if you illegally use 30 copies of Win98, but unless the hardware you bought comes with a Win98 COA or search for new unused Win98 software being "legal" is going to be a big challenge.

I would guess one of the Tualatin's could act as the server - I would think something like a Counter-Strike isnt too demanding especially if your controlling stuff like custom skins ect. I think it would be a bad idea to connect the server to the internet at large, I'm not sure the server would successfully mask the IP addresses of all the clients and your Win98 machines would be very insecure online.

I think a more important use for a server would be to re-image each PC. IMO people in internet cafe's tend to like to mess with any setting that isnt locked down, I think you will be constantly - re-imaging the 30 computers. It would probably be best to automate the process.

Yeah, I was thinking the same about connecting to internet, it will more realistically be a lan only situation. The idea of reimagine is great, how would you automate the process?

MeatboySupreme wrote on 2025-03-19, 19:49:

paradigital wrote on 2025-03-19, 19:11:

As keeping 30 client machines running happily is already going to consume a lot of time, I'd probably look to run your dedicated servers on a modern server with multiple VMs of older operating systems. More often than not, the dedicated server executable doesn't need 3D video (certainly was the case for the likes of Q3A), and a modern server CPU will have more than enough grunt for 10-20 dedicated servers for 90s-mid 2000s games.

I don't think you can get the same performance and response times with virtual machines on a server, I doubt it...

Of course you can. How do you think the modern world works?

paradigital wrote on 2025-03-19, 20:01:

MeatboySupreme wrote on 2025-03-19, 19:49:

paradigital wrote on 2025-03-19, 19:11:

As keeping 30 client machines running happily is already going to consume a lot of time, I'd probably look to run your dedicated servers on a modern server with multiple VMs of older operating systems. More often than not, the dedicated server executable doesn't need 3D video (certainly was the case for the likes of Q3A), and a modern server CPU will have more than enough grunt for 10-20 dedicated servers for 90s-mid 2000s games.

I don't think you can get the same performance and response times with virtual machines on a server, I doubt it...

Of course you can. How do you think the modern world works?

Ok, so you have 30 VGA CRT monitors that need to connect to 30 VM's on a server that emulates windows 98. How would that work and what hardware would you emulate times 30, with what resources/ hardware on server?

How about running ReactOS? On some PCs, at least?
The look&feel is close to Windows NT4/2000. Or it used, to, at least.
From a technical point of view Microsoft IE 5.x might still run on it, perhaps.

Edit: What I mean is the following: Have 5 PCs or so running Windows 98 and then use ReactOS for the rest.
Acquiring 5 original retail copies of Windows 98FE/SE shouldn't be that hard.

Do number your PCs and use legit Windows 98 for PCs 1 to 5
and have the original boxes stored away in a safe place, along with a note telling which PC does use it.
That should be legally safe, I think. At least in my country.

The idea is of having those 5 PCs running in a corner of the Internet Cafe that serves as an, um, "showcase".
The rest of the PCs who are mainly being used for gaming maybe can use ReactOS then.

By using Windows 98 wallpapers and themes, the atmosphere might be sufficient authentic enough to not affect the experience.
It's simply important that a couple of legit Windows 98 PCs are around, to satisfy those people that really care about the faithfulness.

I want the real deal 😀. I don't want impersonations of the real deal. I already solved the licensing problem. I genuinely want a time machine, not a prop. The idea of reimaging that BinaryDemon suggested was great. I only need to figure how to automate the process. More of that stuff would be appreciated. Thanks!

Hi, I understand. It just came to mind as a compromise.
Not seldomly, the legal part is more of a challenge than the technical part. 😅
Before you open the Cafe to the public, please make sure you have researched some information.
Ideally, you can find out how Internet Cafes in the 90s operated.
What kind of managment software they had used.
From what I remember visiting a local Internet Cafe, the owner had some sort of control PC on the counter.
The software allowed to lock certain Internet PCs in the Cafe, to set a time limit etc.
If my memory doesn't play tricks on me,
then there was a little timer in the right corner of the Windows taskbar that showed how much time I had left.
Also, it might be worth checking how things are in terms of liability.
If you need to have guests to show them their ID card/drivers license to you etc.
In case the guests try to abuse your internect connection.
Oh, and I would try to make sure the connection is being filtered. Like by using pi-hole on a Raspberry Pi, maybe. Or a couple of them.
That should also protect the Windows 98 PCs from unnecessary traffic. It's just an idea.

I don't think I would be renting by the hour anyways. I only plan to do events, tournaments planned in advance, paid in advance. With sessions, breaks, scorekeeping, forum for members, serious stuff. And I gave up the idea of going online, it will be lan only.

The legal side will be solved by force-feeding keys legally acquired in bulk from a software company with receipt. The rest is not my problem, unless Bill decides to check out the joint and gives me a better solution 😁

I can’t help because I’ve never done anything like it.

I think most organizations managed large networks with PXE, not sure how much your Dells support this but with 3com 905b and BIOS. I read something that maybe specialized eprom is required to configure the 905b.

I think the basic idea is the server would ping the target machine with a specialized network packet which instructions the computer to reboot and instead of booting off local storage it uses PXE to connect to a remote server to reinstall OS.

I’m sure some people here have done what type of network administration, or atleast it’s a good place to start googling.

Is this an open to the public cafe or just for friends?

Windows 98 isn't exactly stable. you can probably trust friends to respect your setup but public will no doubt tinker and change settings or do something that causes windows to stop working.
For this reason I'd think about a quick way to restore a computer back to your original setup, either over the network of using a CD, or mixture of both (System from CD then copy games off a server share)
Something like Norton Ghost was typical at the time.

If it's just your local PC's in a game you probably won't need a server, but it'll be more fun to setup so why not! Although for the server I don't see the need to be period correct. Even a 10 year old PC will be more than enough to run 1 or 2 virtual servers (game server and system recovery server)

One option would be to buy old OEM PC's like Compaq, Dell, Gateway, etc. If you can get the same model, then you have a nice standard build to start with. Plus, these almost always had a Windows OEM licence attached.
Even if you had a bit of a mix, say 5 Compaq's 10 Dell's etc that would still be easier then trying to find 30 identical motherboards, etc

MS typically only allows downgrading to the previous version, so a Win 11 licence only gets you as far as Windows 10. You can still buy new and used Windows 98 licences second hand though which would be enough to keep you out of trouble I would think, not that I think anyone would even check.

No idea about online, I've a number of retro PC's and servers, all on the same network as the internet but I don't really use them online, just LAN games and file sharing

MeatboySupreme wrote on 2025-03-19, 20:15:

paradigital wrote on 2025-03-19, 20:01:

MeatboySupreme wrote on 2025-03-19, 19:49:

I don't think you can get the same performance and response times with virtual machines on a server, I doubt it...

Of course you can. How do you think the modern world works?

Ok, so you have 30 VGA CRT monitors that need to connect to 30 VM's on a server that emulates windows 98. How would that work and what hardware would you emulate times 30, with what resources/ hardware on server?

You misunderstand.

I’m not suggesting to ditch the 30 PCs, I’m suggesting to ditch the idea of using retro hardware for the dedicated servers that will host the games.

It means that the heart of the operation is more reliable and you can ensure that you are only troubleshooting and maintaining the PCs that users are interacting with.

There are some docker images for certain game server available. I haven't had a look into it, but it's on my "todo"-list.
Which brings me to game licensing. You'll need windows-licenses, but also legit copies of the games you plan to install. And check each game EULA what they think of installs on multiple machines.
As a full-time hobby this would be nice, but not economically viable.

I have a setup of 8-12 win98 or XP machines to use at retro-lans. Administering these is a PITA.