pentium-s is supposedly an award moniker from the time: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/whats-pentium-s.775841/

that style of ps/2 breakout is what gigabyte did at the time, you're lucky to have it as the startech ones seem out of production now, making it possibly quite annoying to get ps/2 out of those boards.

one application could be certain games that play better at 90 or 100 mhz compared to 233 - for instance i'm pretty sure descent 1 in 320x200 (only resolution that will display the cockpit) is too fast on the latter, but probably just about right on the former.

RubDub2k wrote on 2025-03-28, 16:22:

[...]

I've attached pictures of some of the expansion cards as well (It has a StingRay Pro ARK1000PV card, but I'm not exactly sure how many MB it is; according to DOS Days Website, it looks like the card either came with one or two MB). I guess what I'm wondering is:

Your pic shows a card with two V53C16256HK50 chips. They are 4Mb chips, so 8Mb=1MB total. The PCB has pads for8 1Mb chips too, but they overlap the 4Mb pads, so this particular card could only have 1MB regardless of type of chips used. The Ark 1000PV does support 2MB though, just not on this card.

1) What OS do you guys think would be best for this thing? I saw on the Retro Web they had "Triones Bus Master EIDE/ATAPI drivers" for a similar revision of the board for both DOS and Windows 3.1x, but I didn't see any other drivers for either DOS or 3.1... the rest looked like they were for Windows NT or OS/2 Warp.

P100 systems were generally sold with Windows 95. With enough RAM it could run WIn98SE, slowly. Instead I'd agree with your DOS/Win3.11 combo. Even for Win3.11 you'd want to upgrade to 16MB. 8MB will work, but not pleasantly. 8MB will only really give you a good DOS experience, even if some masochists ran Win95 on the same or less (I still have traumas from 486DX33 with 4MB running Win95 at uni...).

2) What is your experience with the hardware in this machine? Is there anything that I should be aware of?

The 1MB VGA card is a pain for any desktop GUI OS, as it limits you to 800x600@16b colour (or tiny 640x480@24b, or ugly 1024x768@8b). The Ark 1000PV is however considered one of the fastest performers in DOS.

3) I'm thinking of using a CF card to store the OS; would you guys recommend going this route, and if so, what size CF card?

In general I'd not recommend CF for an OS that uses virtual memory, as it will wear out the cards quickly. You can probably get away with Win3.11 though.

4) Also, according to the board's page on The Retro Web, this motherboard supposedly has a PS/2 Mouse input, and while there are a couple of breakout cables from the motherboard that go to the I/O slots in the back (Parallel, Serial, etc), the PS/2 looking port seems a bit funky looking compared to other PS/2 ports I've seen... is that just a regular PS/2 input?

Yes, it has the four (out of six) pins of the mini-DIN connector needed for PS/2 connected.

I'm open to doing some small upgrades/swapping parts on this thing as well if it isn't exorbitantly expensive... I just don't have a ton to spend on parts (younger guy here). If I need to swap out the RAM or CPU for slower/lower quantities, I'd definitely consider that too (I know some DOS games don't function on too fast of CPU's), so let me know if you have any thoughts on that.

If you already have a P233MMX, there's a lot of overlap here. A P100 is slower, but still too fast for a lot of really old stuff. However it looks like it has a turbo button, which is supported by the GA-586ATS. That will help.

Is the "81920kB" a typo? 80MB is a huge amount for a P100 system, and more than the i430FX chipset can cache. If you really have 80MB, performance will actually improve if you downgrade to max 64MB (the cacheable limit) - unless you're actually using that much RAM, which is highly unlikely. If on the other hand you have 8MB, that's a pretty normal amount for a P100 to have been sold with - and it's a bit on the low side for Win3.11. Upgrading to at least 16MB would be a good idea - but no more than 64MB. Note that some DOS games have memory detection routines that fail when you have too much RAM, so I'd keep it near 16MB if you want max DOS compatibility.

Finally, if you want to play games, a sound card would be a good idea. DOS wants an ISA sound card. If you don't have a strong opinion on the matter, go for a generic SBPro2.0-compatible clone - don't waste money on overpriced and buggy Creative cards.

Thanks guys, and yes, it's got 80 MB (see the attached photos). I looked at the physical RAM and from the markings it looks like two 8MB and two 32MB sticks...

So what I'm hearing is that I should lower the RAM to 64 MB by removing the two 8 MB sticks (or should I lower it even more)? And that the Ark1000PV would not be adequate for windows 3.11? And that a CF card would probably be fine for windows 3.11?

Ideally I'd prefer windows 3.11 as I've never really used it before and I think it'd be interesting to tinker with. I've got an original copy of Myst, and I think this machine would be fun to play DOOM, Castle Wolfenstein 3D and Duke Nukem 3D on, as well any other early 3D/iconic games released between 1990-1994/95.

I do have a couple ISA audio cards and another video card that are all bit newer that came with the computer in a box, so I wasn't sure if they would be compatible/have drivers for windows 3.11 (looks like an Ensoniq from around 1995 and a sounblaster card from '97, I included some pics).

It looks like the other video card is a 4 MB Diamond ST II S220 PCI from around '97, so I don't know if that would work with windows 3.11 either.

I guess do you guys have any thoughts on which of those sound cards to use with that timeframe of games in mind? And if I should swap the video card for the Diamond one? Also, should I look into buying a slower pentium for that socket?

Thanks again everyone, this has been enormously helpful.

RubDub2k wrote on 2025-03-28, 18:23:

Thanks guys, and yes, it's got 80 MB (see the attached photos). I looked at the physical RAM and from the markings it looks like two 8MB and two 32MB sticks...

So what I'm hearing is that I should lower the RAM to 64 MB by removing the two 8 MB sticks (or should I lower it even more)?

Unless you actually use over 64MB (which you won't playing games in DOS and Win3.11), losing those 8MB SIMMs will improve performance. Reducing it down to 16MB is another option. That would marginally improve DOS compatibility (some games have memory detection routines that fail if you have too much memory) at the risk of reducing performance in Windows if you do a lot - although I ran Win3.1 with 16MB until 1999 and even having Word 6.0 and Excel open at the same time with big documents didn't fill that.

And that the Ark1000PV would not be adequate for windows 3.11?

It would give you a very authentic (low-res and/or low-colour) 1990s experience 😉

And that a CF card would probably be fine for windows 3.11?

Probably.

Ideally I'd prefer windows 3.11 as I've never really used it before and I think it'd be interesting to tinker with. I've got an original copy of Myst, and I think this machine would be fun to play DOOM, Castle Wolfenstein 3D and Duke Nukem 3D on, as well any other early 3D/iconic games released between 1990-1994/95.

Should be fine for all of them, and the Ark 1000PV would be great for those games.

A good general resource for Win3.11 drivers and utilities:
http://www.gaby.de/win3x/edrivers.htm (note: old HTTP site, modern browsers flag it as 'dangerous' as it doesn't use HTTPS - bit of an overreaction for a read-only site 😉 )

I do have a couple ISA audio cards and another video card that are all bit newer that came with the computer in a box, so I wasn't sure if they would be compatible/have drivers for windows 3.11 (looks like an Ensoniq from around 1995 and a sounblaster card from '97, I included some pics).

Er, no you didn't, can't see any sound card pics. If you have an Ensoniq ISA card, consider yourself lucky, by the way, they were highly regarded for their MIDI, even if they aren't the best allrounders (using samples for FM synth sounds awful). Even if you don't like it, it's likely to be worth a lot so you could easily sell or swap it for something else if needed.

It looks like the other video card is a 4 MB Diamond ST II S220 PCI from around '97, so I don't know if that would work with windows 3.11 either.

That card has a Verite Rendition V2100 chipset. Bit of an oddball, but much liked as an early Windows 95 3D accelerator. It's also not exactly period correct and that's a challenge with Win 3.11 drivers. I'm not aware of any WIn3.x drivers for Verite chipsets, although others may know more than I do.

I guess do you guys have any thoughts on which of those sound cards to use with that timeframe of games in mind?

Give us the pics and we might be able to say 😉

And if I should swap the video card for the Diamond one?

If you want to run WIn3.1? Nope. The ATi Rage IIC you posted (by accident, instead of the sound cards?) would have been an interesting option if it had been a PCI card, not an AGP one (although ATi's Mach/Rage cards perform poorly in DOS)

lso, should I look into buying a slower pentium for that socket?

The only slower Pentiums for that socket are the 90 and 75, and both use the same 1.5x multiplier as the P100, you just clock the bus down from 66MHz to 60MHz (90) or 50MHz (75). You can also do that without buying a different CPU, just change the jumpers and you lose the speed. Tbh though, use the turbo-button to slow down seriously. If it works, it's a much better idea.

Looks like the ARK1000PV has 3.1 drivers (on DOSdays) https://dosdays.co.uk/topics/Manufacturers/he … /stingray64.php
The S220 looks like it only has 95 drivers, would be a pretty unique experience though - would probably want a faster CPU to make the most of it
The Rage card is AGP and you don't have an AGP slot

dionb wrote on 2025-03-28, 20:32:

Ideally I'd prefer windows 3.11 as I've never really used it before and I think it'd be interesting to tinker with. I've got an original copy of Myst, and I think this machine would be fun to play DOOM, Castle Wolfenstein 3D and Duke Nukem 3D on, as well any other early 3D/iconic games released between 1990-1994/95.

Should be fine for all of them, and the Ark 1000PV would be great for those games.

Gotcha, I appreciate the advice!

dionb wrote on 2025-03-28, 20:32:

Er, no you didn't, can't see any sound card pics. If you have an Ensoniq ISA card, consider yourself lucky, by the way, they wer […]
Show full quote

I do have a couple ISA audio cards and another video card that are all bit newer that came with the computer in a box, so I wasn't sure if they would be compatible/have drivers for windows 3.11 (looks like an Ensoniq from around 1995 and a soundblaster card from '97, I included some pics).

Er, no you didn't, can't see any sound card pics. If you have an Ensoniq ISA card, consider yourself lucky, by the way, they were highly regarded for their MIDI, even if they aren't the best allrounders (using samples for FM synth sounds awful). Even if you don't like it, it's likely to be worth a lot so you could easily sell or swap it for something else if needed.

It looks like the other video card is a 4 MB Diamond ST II S220 PCI from around '97, so I don't know if that would work with windows 3.11 either.

That card has a Verite Rendition V2100 chipset. Bit of an oddball, but much liked as an early Windows 95 3D accelerator. It's also not exactly period correct and that's a challenge with Win 3.11 drivers. I'm not aware of any WIn3.x drivers for Verite chipsets, although others may know more than I do.

I guess do you guys have any thoughts on which of those sound cards to use with that timeframe of games in mind?

Give us the pics and we might be able to say 😉

Yeah I didn't mean to post the Rage card, that was an accident haha. The right photos of the two cards are attached now, any advice on which I should choose for windows 3.11/game compatibility would be greatly appreciated! 😀

dionb wrote on 2025-03-28, 20:32:

Also, should I look into buying a slower pentium for that socket?

The only slower Pentiums for that socket are the 90 and 75, and both use the same 1.5x multiplier as the P100, you just clock the bus down from 66MHz to 60MHz (90) or 50MHz (75). You can also do that without buying a different CPU, just change the jumpers and you lose the speed. Tbh though, use the turbo-button to slow down seriously. If it works, it's a much better idea.

So it sounds like the overall plan should be to keep the CPU, keep the Stingray card for compatibility, lower the Ram to maybe 32-64 MB (max), and use a CF card for windows 3.11... I guess a couple of follow up questions:

1) What size CF card would you guys recommend using? Ideally I'd like to copy my games to the card and just boot them from there if I can... Most games are usually pretty small from what I understand, but if I rip my Myst CD, that might be pretty big... looks like about 600 MB according to windows 10

2) Is there anything else I should consider adding or changing to this PC before I try to install windows (any other cards or things to keep in mind)?

3) Any other games you guys would recommend playing on this hardware that run reasonably well? This is an era of games I've played very little of, so I'd love to hear your guys' favorites!

Thanks again everyone, this has been enormously helpful!

RubDub2k wrote on 2025-03-28, 23:18:

[...]

Yeah I didn't mean to post the Rage card, that was an accident haha. The right photos of the two cards are attached now, any advice on which I should choose for windows 3.11/game compatibility would be greatly appreciated! 😀

Right, that's an Ensoniq VIVO. Least interesting of the Ensoniq ISA cards but still pretty unusual. The other is a CT4170 SB16 Vibra, which is common as muck.

Now, DOS sound cards are a massive rabbit hole, but the thing to understand is that there's no real concept of 'driver' in DOS; software (games) directly talks to functionality of the hardware. And most sound cards have multiple ways to make sound, and a few other things. So to evaluate a card, you need to compare each of those functionalities and see how much each matters depending on the games you want to play.

Basically the functionalities you could have:
- PCM Digital Audio - converts digital samples back into sound. Standards: Sound Blaster, Sound Blaster Pro, Sound Blaster 16 and (relevant for Windows 3.11) Windows Sound System (WSS).
- FM synthesis - uses instructions to synthesize sound. Standards: OPL2 (AdLib) and OPL3. Here it's not just about supporting the standard, but also the quality of the synthesis.
- MPU-401 MIDI interface - doesn't make sound itself, but allows communication using the MIDI protocol.
- Wavetable synthesis - actually a misnomer, this is sample-based music synthesis. Standards: General MIDI. Here there's also a qualitative aspect.
And then there's whatever software may be necessary and whatever bugs the card may have.

So, how do the cards match up?

Ensoniq VIVO:
- PCM: supports SB, SBPro2.0 and WSS - but not SB16
- FM: uses wavetable samples to approximate OPL3. Bad. Very bad.
- MPU-401 interface: present and bug-free.
- Wavetable: this is the key feature of this card. It's not as good as Ensoniq's best cards or Roland sound modules, but it's very decent and beats non-wavetable music hands down.
- The card is partly software-based, using the host CPU as controller via a TSR program which needs EMM386 to perform Sound Blaster emulation. This is bad, normally something you would have to suffer on PCI cards, not on ISA cards.
- Full Windows 3.11 support, both for WSS and MIDI.

CT4170 SB16 Vibra
- PCM: supports SB, SBPro2.0 and SB16 - but not WSS. Clipping, hissing and ringing artefacts typical of Vibra cards.
- FM: uses Creatives's CQM for FM synth. Not great, but at least real FM synth unlike Ensoniq.
- MPU-401 interface: present with (mild) bug: MIDI playback slows down if high-quality PCM samples are being played at the same time.
- Wavetable: none onboard
- PnP card, so needs initializing in DOS. Beyond that no software needed.
- Win3.11 support available. Could be fun finding the correct driver though (there are 29 different types of SB16 card...)

So? Neither is anywhere near perfect, but both will in general do the trick. The CT4170 is the simpler card that will just do what it's supposed to and so will be the most compatible. However it doesn't offer wavetable General MIDI music, which the Ensoniq ViVo does - but that card will have compatibility issues due to its memory requirements. Also its FM is terrible.

What I would do:
- keep my eyes open for better options for an acceptable price.
- until then run both cards in the system. Use the CT4710 for SB16 and FM synth. Use the VIVO for WSS (including in Win3.11) and for wavetable. In DOS, only intitialize the VIVO if you need the wavetable.

[...]

So it sounds like the overall plan should be to keep the CPU, keep the Stingray card for compatibility, lower the Ram to maybe 32-64 MB (max), and use a CF card for windows 3.11... I guess a couple of follow up questions:

1) What size CF card would you guys recommend using? Ideally I'd like to copy my games to the card and just boot them from there if I can... Most games are usually pretty small from what I understand, but if I rip my Myst CD, that might be pretty big... looks like about 600 MB according to windows 10

Motherboard BIOSs have HDD size limits. Originally this board would have probably supported max 500MB HDD. But that limit has been increased in later BIOS. Gigabyte still has v1.32 online, dating to may 1998, that supports HDDs up to 32GB.

Here things get interesting though: you posted your POST screen and it shows a BIOS rev 2.0 dated to september 1999. Your board is running a newer BIOS than is available either via Gigabyte or on TheRetroWeb, a Unicore upgrade BIOS no less. That is really interesting and I'm sure a lot of people would like to take a look at that BIOS. If at all possible, please extract and upload that BIOS.

Given there's no info about the rev2.0 BIOS I can't say what its features or limits are. But worst-case you can always flash rev1.32 and get 32GB support.

So 32GB is the upper limit. That means you can use a seriously big CF card. I prefer 4GB cards on systems like this, but you can go wild if you want. Just be sure to update the BIOS first if you haven't

2) Is there anything else I should consider adding or changing to this PC before I try to install windows (any other cards or things to keep in mind)?

Windows 3.11 is less of an operating system and more of a shell on top of DOS. You don't need to worry as much about hardware changes as with say Windows 2000 or later - and you're using the I/O from your motherboard anyway.

3) Any other games you guys would recommend playing on this hardware that run reasonably well? This is an era of games I've played very little of, so I'd love to hear your guys' favorites!

What type of games do you like? This would be a system for late DOS games. I like 4X and strategy stuff. Sid Meier's Colonization and Alpha Centauri would fly on this, as would Master of Magic, and it could handle Master of Orion 1 and 2 as well.

There aren't many Windows 3.11 games, but two that I played on my Pentium 60 were Civilization 2 and Battle Isle 3. They required Win32S and WinG extensions to be installed. IIRC the installers included them.

dionb wrote on 2025-03-29, 00:15:

So? Neither is anywhere near perfect, but both will in general do the trick. The CT4170 is the simpler card that will just do wh […]
Show full quote

So? Neither is anywhere near perfect, but both will in general do the trick. The CT4170 is the simpler card that will just do what it's supposed to and so will be the most compatible. However it doesn't offer wavetable General MIDI music, which the Ensoniq ViVo does - but that card will have compatibility issues due to its memory requirements. Also its FM is terrible.

What I would do:
- keep my eyes open for better options for an acceptable price.
- until then run both cards in the system. Use the CT4710 for SB16 and FM synth. Use the VIVO for WSS (including in Win3.11) and for wavetable. In DOS, only intitialize the VIVO if you need the wavetable.

Interesting... this hardware is well before my era, so I didn't know that you could run two soundcards in DOS/Windows 3.11 like that. Would I just use a 3.5mm audio jack hub to connect both cards to the same speaker then, like this? https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1577/7605/p … pg?v=1741114613

dionb wrote on 2025-03-29, 00:15:

Motherboard BIOSs have HDD size limits. Originally this board would have probably supported max 500MB HDD. But that limit has be […]
Show full quote

So it sounds like the overall plan should be to keep the CPU, keep the Stingray card for compatibility, lower the Ram to maybe 32-64 MB (max), and use a CF card for windows 3.11... I guess a couple of follow up questions:

1) What size CF card would you guys recommend using? Ideally I'd like to copy my games to the card and just boot them from there if I can... Most games are usually pretty small from what I understand, but if I rip my Myst CD, that might be pretty big... looks like about 600 MB according to windows 10

Motherboard BIOSs have HDD size limits. Originally this board would have probably supported max 500MB HDD. But that limit has been increased in later BIOS. Gigabyte still has v1.32 online, dating to may 1998, that supports HDDs up to 32GB.

Here things get interesting though: you posted your POST screen and it shows a BIOS rev 2.0 dated to september 1999. Your board is running a newer BIOS than is available either via Gigabyte or on TheRetroWeb, a Unicore upgrade BIOS no less. That is really interesting and I'm sure a lot of people would like to take a look at that BIOS. If at all possible, please extract and upload that BIOS.

Given there's no info about the rev2.0 BIOS I can't say what its features or limits are. But worst-case you can always flash rev1.32 and get 32GB support.

So 32GB is the upper limit. That means you can use a seriously big CF card. I prefer 4GB cards on systems like this, but you can go wild if you want. Just be sure to update the BIOS first if you haven't

I was thinking of using a 4GB CF card, as it looks like any of the industrial Cisco cards above 4GB start to get expensive real quick. I'd also definitely be willing to try and extract that BIOS, but that is something I've never attempted... are there any good guides out there I should follow, or other forums here on Vogons I should post in about extracting that BIOS?

dionb wrote on 2025-03-29, 00:15:

2) Is there anything else I should consider adding or changing to this PC before I try to install windows (any other cards or things to keep in mind)?

Windows 3.11 is less of an operating system and more of a shell on top of DOS. You don't need to worry as much about hardware changes as with say Windows 2000 or later - and you're using the I/O from your motherboard anyway.

Got it, thanks!

dionb wrote on 2025-03-29, 00:15:

3) Any other games you guys would recommend playing on this hardware that run reasonably well? This is an era of games I've played very little of, so I'd love to hear your guys' favorites!

What type of games do you like? This would be a system for late DOS games. I like 4X and strategy stuff. Sid Meier's Colonization and Alpha Centauri would fly on this, as would Master of Magic, and it could handle Master of Orion 1 and 2 as well.

There aren't many Windows 3.11 games, but two that I played on my Pentium 60 were Civilization 2 and Battle Isle 3. They required Win32S and WinG extensions to be installed. IIRC the installers included them.

I love the Myst series and puzzle games in general, and enjoy some of those early FPS games. I'm open to trying any game really, I guess I'm looking to play some of those influential early 90's games that shaped PC gaming regardless of genre, especially the early 3D ones. I'm treating this as a bit of a history lesson to learn what defined that 1990-1995 era and what would end up influencing other games (like how Quake, Half Life and Halo would go on later to have big impacts on the gaming industry as a whole). Thanks so much everyone!

RubDub2k wrote on 2025-03-28, 23:18:

1) What size CF card would you guys recommend using? Ideally I'd like to copy my games to the card and just boot them from there if I can... Most games are usually pretty small from what I understand, but if I rip my Myst CD, that might be pretty big... looks like about 600 MB according to windows 10

For a DOS/Win 3.11 machine, I would use either 2GB or 4GB. Since the max partition size under DOS is ~2GB, a 4GB card could be set up with two partitions. This is what I do with my systems of this era.

3) Any other games you guys would recommend playing on this hardware that run reasonably well? This is an era of games I've played very little of, so I'd love to hear your guys' favorites!

A P100 would be a typical 1995-era computer. Some of the highlights from 1994-1995 include: Command & Conquer, Dark Forces, Descent, Elder Scrolls: Arena, Full Throttle, Heretic, Heroes of Might & Magic, Hexen, Jagged Alliance, Mechwarrior 2, System Shock, TIE Fighter, Warcraft, Warcraft II, X-COM: UFO Defence...

I've got a much longer list if you're interested. There's quite a lot of good and/or influential games from that era. 😁

RubDub2k wrote on 2025-03-29, 00:57:

[...]

Interesting... this hardware is well before my era, so I didn't know that you could run two soundcards in DOS/Windows 3.11 like that. Would I just use a 3.5mm audio jack hub to connect both cards to the same speaker then, like this? https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1577/7605/p … pg?v=1741114613

That would do nasty things with impedances. Best option is a mixer, but run the line-out of the one card to the line-in of the other (and then unmute that line-in) works well enough. The CT4170 has its faults, but it's a nice quiet card, so very usable for this.

[...]

I was thinking of using a 4GB CF card, as it looks like any of the industrial Cisco cards above 4GB start to get expensive real quick.

4GB should be more than enough; in 1995 (when a P100 was mainstream) HDDs tended to be 500-1000MB, you're in 1997 before a 4GB HDD would have been assumed to be present by software, later still before it would actually be used.

I'd also definitely be willing to try and extract that BIOS, but that is something I've never attempted... are there any good guides out there I should follow, or other forums here on Vogons I should post in about extracting that BIOS?

Lots of options. The most basic is using the DEBUG command in DOS, but more user-friendly options abound, see here:
https://www.dosdays.co.uk/topics/bios.php

Not mentioned there is just pulling out the EEPROM chip and reading it in a reader/writer - my preferred method these days. If you have one (like the TL866), use that. Otherwise try one of the listed options. UNIFLASH would be my favorite if a board works with it. In that case, just do:

UNIFLASH -SAVE 586ATS20.BIN

Will probably need the Microhouse 32BDA driver from here http://www.win31.de/edrivers.htm to enable 32 bit disk access on a >500MB drive, though if you have enough RAM, you could maybe run with no pagefile, possibly still worth using 32BDA as it means more efficient disk access