darry wrote on 2025-04-23, 03:29:

For those people who feel like it might be "cheating", I ask the question of how they would feel if the same or similar had been achieved long at ludicrously expensive hardware using actually available technogy ? For example, would running software from a RAM drive on a fully populated EMS expansion (8MB or 16MB RAM) that had been modified with battery backup have been cheating back in the 1980s ? If a similar result can be reached today using cheap and reliable commodity hardware, is it really somehow worse ?

Yeah, people somehow forget that RAM drives were a thing. Sure, memory was very expensive during the early and mid '90s, but if you had money to burn, you could do some pretty cool things with that.

Here's a somewhat reasonable (although still expensive) setup that you could get in early 1995. Intel 430FX based motherboard, Pentium 120 MHz, 512 KB cache and 64 MB RAM (fully cacheable). That would have cost several thousand USD, but you could create a 32 MB RAM drive under MS-DOS 6.22 and easily copy one contemporary game there. When you're done playing, just copy the saves back to your hard drive. Lightning fast load times and all that.

Hi, that reminds me of my discussions with Grzyb about OS/2 and memory expansion.. ^^

What I think is that it's all about the situation.
As a home user, you may have different needs than a professional.

At home, in the 80s, you can for example do AutoCAD work on a modest PC/XT and CG.. Hercules graphics running AutoCAD 2.x,
while simultanously using AutoCAD R9 on a Deskpro 386 at your work place.

The PC at home (-maybe an Tandy or PC1512, even-) can be good enough for small edits, for completing your work at home.
Especially if an 8087 was installed.
Not a cheap upgrade, but considering your income it didn't hurt at the time.

And I think that's the point, more or less.
A home user may either use the PC for hobby or for doing work.

If it's a hobby or entertainment use, then the money that can be spent is limited, often.

But if the PC becomes a tool, then saving money can be fatal.
Because..
- You have to meet a deadline
- You need to have a good workflow
- You need a PC that meets the requirements (EMS, 286/386 CPU, HD floppy drive etc)

In the end, it's probably less of an headache if the PC has a bit of headroom from to begin with.
Not only will it better perform at the beginning, but the PC will last longer before becoming obsolete.

This borrows you time, in which you can concentrate on the work and making money rather than thinking about the tool.
And that's not so bad. The best tool is a tool which doesn't grab your attention all the time.

Edit: And last but not least, hot-rod PCs of the past my seem like luxury,
but in comparison to common mainframes they were very affordable.

I do not consider it cheating and also Totally agree with the first 16 posts here. It is what it is, totally not the same as a mechanical HD and comes with many issues not present on a real HD.
They do have their places but spent too much time trying on an XT and 286 and will never try that again........both have real HD's again now....

CF cards are wonky in my experience. Some work fine and others don't.

For systems that I can use them in, SATA SSDs are way better and more reliable.

I really couldn't care less about being period correct for certain things. Storage media is one of those things.

Power supplies are another. Better to use a newer power supply and an adapter than an ancient one with poor protection and even worse voltage regulation.

Interesting reads.

Seems as if most don't care to use flash storage. In principle, neither do I.

However, I do appreciate the sound and the tactile nature of real hard drives.

Even though my first "pc" compatible was a 286 with ide, the sound and manner of the ST-225 is absolutely iconic and irreplacable. I have a bunch of spares, so my super turbo xt should be able to run for a while.

My 486 still has its original cfs425a in it, its sound and manner also belongs with that computer. From the way the motor whines when it starts up and makes three oscillations as the speed control initially hunts around the set point, to the way the heads click when it is active with io requests, that specific device is something to be appreciated in and of itself.

Should the day arrive when I must use flash storage with these/such systems, I will do it out of necessity. The only thing I absolutely abhor is the fake hard drive clickers. If there is a sound, that sound must have purpose and meaning. I totally love sounds systems make; loud hard drives do not bother me at all. But I have absolutely no tolerance for bullshittery.

cyclone3d wrote on 2025-04-24, 02:23:

CF cards are wonky in my experience. Some work fine and others don't. […]
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CF cards are wonky in my experience. Some work fine and others don't.

For systems that I can use them in, SATA SSDs are way better and more reliable.

I really couldn't care less about being period correct for certain things. Storage media is one of those things.

Power supplies are another. Better to use a newer power supply and an adapter than an ancient one with poor protection and even worse voltage regulation.

I'm of a similar view, I'm fine with CF or SD to IDE - when it works - i wouldn't spend ages trying to get things working if they are clearly fighting hard against working though 😀

I don't see it as cheating either but i do get the reason why some folk prefer things to be more period correct

Power supplies are a good example too - some really old ones will just deliver what's expected seemingly forever, and then some will prove flaky - and it isn't obvious which one will prove flaky if looking at a selection of ones that seem ok right now. So just getting a better one can seem like the sensible choice.

The good and bad thing CF is the noise, or the lack of noise.

I dont miss the sound of a harddrive with worn out bearings in the spindle. That noise is horrible.

But I do miss the sound of the heads moving while searching.

So I usually end up with something silly like old s scsi drives that can wake up the whole family 😀

gerry wrote on 2025-04-25, 08:45:

I'm of a similar view, I'm fine with CF or SD to IDE - when it works - i wouldn't spend ages trying to get things working if they are clearly fighting hard against working though 😀

From my experience, using industrial grade CF cards can greatly reduce the amount of headaches that you may encounter.

They are more expensive to be sure, but they tend to "just work" unlike consumer CF cards where it's a bit of a gamble.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-04-25, 10:43:

They are more expensive to be sure, but they tend to "just work" unlike consumer CF cards where it's a bit of a gamble.

I think I had one or two difficult consumer CFs in the past years.
My workaround was the use of XT-IDE Universal BIOS in my vintage DOS PCs.

Then, all what's left as a trouble maker in principle was the bare physical connection.
Here, the pin 28 on CF adapter can make trouble.
Or the IORDY signal, sometimes (an IDE vs floppy controller thing; IDE/FDC combo controllers are less affected).

An overclocked ISA bus can confuse come CF cards, too, since the "IDE controller" in early PCs is just a basic IDE host adapter, rather.

Edit: There's one odd except, though. I have a 586 mainboard which merely works with one CF card that I have. Very strange.
The CF card also is odd because it can work without any power from molex or the IDE key pin.

st31276a wrote on 2025-04-25, 08:00:

Should the day arrive when I must use flash storage with these/such systems, I will do it out of necessity. The only thing I absolutely abhor is the fake hard drive clickers. If there is a sound, that sound must have purpose and meaning. I totally love sounds systems make; loud hard drives do not bother me at all. But I have absolutely no tolerance for bullshittery.

nailed it

st31276a wrote on 2025-04-25, 08:00:

The only thing I absolutely abhor is the fake hard drive clickers. If there is a sound, that sound must have purpose and meaning.

HDD clickers do serve a purpose, since they provide an audible cue when the drive is actively reading/writing.

I use them with old Tandy computers that lack HDD LEDs. In conjunction with flash storage, an HDD clicker lets me know when the drive is active, because otherwise there would be no indicator.

Ramdrives...

I remember concocting a fancy startup and shutdown script to abuse xmsdsk, drivrspace3, and scandisk.

Approx 1.5gb of data can be shoehorned into an ultrapack-repacked drivespace3 volume that has 512mb physical size.

On a 1gb win9x machine, that's enough for the OS volume to live in the ramdisk, and have 512mb ram free for the os to use.

Shutdown requires the CVF to get copied out of the host ramdrive, but aside from the slow startup and shutdown, this enabled a huge speed boost when in actual use.